Can’t decide whether I should leave previously controlling relationship

[Cantdecideaway]

I’ve been on MN a long time and have been trawling the relationships threads, amongst others, for a while, whilst trying to decide what to do about my situation.

I’ve been with my husband for 19 years, we met at school. Married for 11 years. We have a 10 year old son. My dad was exceptionally controlling, narcissistic and abusive and so moving out and in with my husband felt like a breath of fresh air! However, in the past couple of years I’ve come to recognise that he has been very controlling as well (used to refuse to allow me to talk to men, see friends of my own, pursue my own hobbies/interests etc).

As I’ve come to realise how unreasonable he’s been, I’ve been working through these issues with him and, to his credit, he’s recognised a need to change, and has been having therapy for the past year. He is no longer controlling of me although he is still very insecure.

However, I’ve come to realise, he contributes nothing to my life. He is pleasant enough and isn’t unkind to me, however I do all of the housework, mental load, parenting, caring for our animals, etc. The only thing he contributes is a paycheque. I feel like if he wasn’t there, things would be just the same, but with half the income. I wouldn’t miss him, I don’t think.

All of this is making me feel like I don’t love him, and perhaps I should leave. My son has been saying the same to me; we are very close and I think he has a good understanding of the situation. I would never burden him with this dilemma and have always reassured him that things are fine between me and my husband, however he says things like “it would be no different if daddy wasn’t here”. He works away a lot and my son is never bothered if he’s away, doesn’t miss or pine for him.

So the question is, should I stay or go. The problem being, I read so many threads on here about such awful men and I think, at least my husband is pleasant and reliable, would never cheat, earns a stable wage and doesn’t hurt us. But at the same time, it all feels hollow. I don’t love him and I don’t think to be honest he loves me. I feel really lonely. But I don’t want to leave only to find I’m even lonelier.

Sorry, that’s a long story. I have no one to turn to for advice as I am very low contact with my parents and my husband’s past behaviour has managed to ensure I don’t have any friends. Can anyone offer some perspective please?

@Comtesse

Hang on - so he’s been better for 6 months, but this is some one you got together with when you were 16. I wouldn’t say being acceptable for 6 months outweighs the previous 18.5 years if was awful during that time (and you still feel the guilt regardless).

Your experience as a young person have been skewed by your dad’s behaviour and meant perhaps that you have put up with more than many would tolerate. Have you ever had counselling/ therapy yourself? There might be quite a lot to talk about…

Yes, I’ve had two separate periods of therapy to do with childhood experiences, and to be honest this is what’s helped me realise how dysfunctional my marriage has been. I went to therapy because I felt I was an awful person, and wanted to become a better person. I stopped seeing my first therapist because I got frustrated with the fact she kept ignoring my desire to improve and trying to get me to believe I was actually great as I was!! It wasn’t until a second therapist, a few years later, did the same thing that I finally realised that I am a great person and that just wasn’t being reflected in my day to day experience!

@Alcemeg * I was struck by you saying "You're very patient, Alcemeg" in one of your posts yesterday. Why would I be cross with you?
Constantly expecting to be irritating someone was part of my default setting after my first marriage, and I wonder if it's become yours.*

Yes, as always you’re probably right here. I’m conscious that you’re spending a great deal of time and effort helping me to clarify my own thoughts, for no reward and without the satisfaction of having fully changed my perspective yet…
Believe me though, I am definitely appreciating all the different viewpoints and perspectives that are being presented by you and others.

Today I was thinking “but what if I can’t find a nice guy” - and then I thought to myself “ok so what would that look like”. I listed some things I’d like from a relationship with “a nice guy” and realised that I don’t have any of those things right now…so really what I’m afraid of I don’t know.

I guess I’m afraid of a relationship with a guy who’s even worse!!! And the fear of that would probably make me stay single!

@FlowerArranger

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what it feels like to be in a more normal, balanced relationship, which is why you don't know what you're missing

Absolutely.

For me, I finally summoned up the courage to leave was when I no longer felt safe with him. I don't mean physically, but over time it became clear to me that he no longer had my back.

@FlowerArranger - what do you mean that he didn’t have your back? I definitely don’t feel unsafe in this relationship. Bored, frustrated, lonely, unloved. All of these, at times. But never unsafe. That’s probably one of the key things keeping me here - I do feel safe, and comfortably provided for.

You do sound quite lonely and bored.
Do you have a social life at all with some girlfriends?
Do you work?

@RantyAunty I have a few friends - not loads, but I’m not that kind of person. I prefer a handful of close friendships to hundreds of superficial ones. I work full time in a very intense job and have several hobbies as well as spending a lot of time doing various hobbies with my son - I am definitely not bored as in I have nothing to do, but I am bored as in I am lacking the stimulation of a partner who is interested in me and wants to do things with me. I’m bored, because as wonderful as he is, my main social companion is 10 years old and that’s not always the most deep and fulfilling social interaction. (Although I love him more than life itself - but he’s not an adult)

I think you should stop fretting about whether you'll find a better man, and just focus on your own quality of life. As your son has pointed out, your husband doesn't enhance it in any way. I also suspect he poisons it, in ways you don't even notice. For example

I went to therapy because I felt I was an awful person, and wanted to become a better person. ... [but] finally realised that I am a great person and that just wasn’t being reflected in my day to day experience!

I'm guessing that this realisation might have been what prompted you to insist on some changes at home (because something poisonous had certainly persuaded you that you were "awful"), but superficial changes in his behaviour stopping the most obvious insults to your dignity aren't enough to convince your gut that things are really transformed. He may just have become a little more subtly manipulative.

You are still "bored, frustrated, lonely and unloved" ... Very important that you feel unloved, and have already mentioned that you know you're both pretending. Of course, if that's what you want to settle for, go for it. With both feet! Hopefully in 10, 20, 30 years' time you will feel more loved, less lonely, less bored with him.

Re feeling safe, and someone having your back -- emotional safety is very important. What makes my second marriage so different from my first is that my husband always behaves as though my feelings are just as important as his. I don't even have to explain what they are, because he already knows, because he understands me. That's what safety is, to me.

@Cantdecideaway - my husband had an uncanny knack of making me feel that he had my back and that we were a team. He was very generous and encouraged me to do things that gave me joy, like going to the theatre, see my friends etc. Like you, I felt "safe, and comfortably provided for".

Until I didnt. It wasn't anything specific that brought it on. It happened gradually, a vague sense of him being detached, a sense that my perception of us being a team being mostly in my head. Becoming more financially controlling.

But mostly it was my gut telling me that I needed to look out for myself.

Yesterday, my son and I went out for the day with a friend of mine. A lot of things went wrong one after the other, as they sometimes do on days out, which meant that although I’d said I’d be home at 4pm, I then texted my husband to say it would be 7, then later 9, then later 11, which is what it eventually turned out to be. This was definitely not planned but was as a result of mishaps and unfortunate incidents that happened while we were out (we’re fine, by the way!).

Anyway, I had a horrible “pit of my stomach” feeling, because previously, coming home later than planned would have meant him getting cross that we’d messed about his plans for the day. But every time I texted him, he sent back a jolly “not to worry, I’m doing x anyway, see you later” kind of text. I said to my son, and more to myself really, “I’m not going to feel guilty for being home late, dad will be fine” and he said “yes of course he will”

He was seemingly SO fine with it all that I felt like he had really changed. I got a notification on my phone that he’d bought a streamed movie (we share an Amazon account) and felt like things were really starting to look up for us. I then couldn’t decide if he would have been within his rights to be annoyed, after all, coming home 6 hours later than planned, and at 11pm with a 10 year old, is fairly irresponsible and irritating.

Anyway even when we got home he seemed fine. But then when we went to bed he was all stiff (in his tone! 😳) and wouldn’t really talk other than 1 word answers, and rolled over to sleep without accepting the cuddle I tried to give him. Leaving me going to sleep all unsettled and upset and guilty again.

Is this normal? He’d had his day really messed about, I guess he could have made other plans if he knew we’d be so long…

Or, to look at it from another perspective, he was tired from a late night, wanted to sleep, and I was overthinking his behaviour on the basis of previous behaviours…?

I think he's already trained you. So he can keep up a pretence of "everything being different" while knowing that YOU already know the real deal, but can no longer point to it and complain because his behaviour is impeccable.

But, @Alcemeg, would it have been reasonable for him to be annoyed in these circumstances

If you were home late because you went out and got drunk and forgot you had to take your son back for bedtime, that would be annoying.

It sounds as though circumstances beyond your control kept you out later than you intended, and you updated him constantly.

In my first marriage I was constantly, constantly, constantly worrying about my husband. Was he going to be cross with me? Was he right to be cross with me? How could I make sure he didn't get upset?

Just imagine being with someone who truly wants to see you relax and enjoy yourself and doesn't mind this sort of thing. It's very different, I promise you.

Actually, being alone is better than this sort of constant mental anguish.

No, absolutely didn’t have even one drink! Basically something went wrong earlier in the day that meant we didn’t start our planned activities till later in the day. And then, when we got back, we realised my friend had left behind Car keys and phone so we had to go all the way back again. Annoying but unavoidable.

So you were delayed by events beyond your control and kept him informed?
Then he has no right to be upset, he should be concerned for you and your son.
And that little turn of the back - that’s reinforcing his control.

@Cantdecideaway

But, *@Alcemeg*, would it have been reasonable for him to be annoyed in these circumstances

Annoyed? No. Worried perhaps or feeling sorry for you because it’s turned into something more gruelling

But annoyed? When you can’t do anything about it? No. That’s wrong

I had this with my ex and my ds (when ds was 3) I know that out of stomach feeling all too well and it’s very unhealthy for YOU.

At least my ds knew nothing of it.

I felt really bad reading about your conversation with ds, he’s too old to be seeing this toxic relationship play out.

You’re teaching him in some weird way that this is what a relationship looks like

He’ll end up looking for one like it for himself! For that reason alone you owe it to yourself and to him to leave this awful manipulative and abusive man (who is only masking for now, he’s not changed a jot!)

Do whatever it takes to get you and your son away from him and even if you end up alone forever it’s a better lesson for your ds than what you’re living now

Realistically though, you’ll find someone else and live the life you we’re always supposed to live; happy, loved, desired and valued.

I’m nobody special, but I found all this and more eye in my late 40s, you can too! But your life will never be any better while you stay with this man.

Yep - me too, @MzHz, eventually, when I was in my 50s 😊

I wish I hadn't wasted so many years of my life, but I'm a slow learner! 😋

Without knowing it, his reaction to yesterday’s incidents, this morning, has made my mind up for me. He’s still just as controlling and manipulative. He’s spent the day so far making me feel guilty about yesterday. I can’t WAIT to talk it through with him this evening when my son’s in bed. He has no idea how wrong he is.

A tip from an old hand at this

Talking it through will have no positive effect

You’re better off NOT talking about it at all, and quietly plan what you need to do next.

I’m glad this has opened your eyes - if you achieve only half of the happiness I have you’ll feel in top of the world

This man is killing your soul, he’ll kill your kids soul too. Leave FOR your ds! Show him what the world is like when you’re not walking on broken glass.

You can do this!

A mahoosive high five to you @Alcemeg - bloody well done love!

Find yourself a mantra - mine? (because my ex lied about me to try to destroy my only friendship at the time) was because I told him that to make me look bad he had to lie, but to make him look bad all I had to do was to tell the truth.

My mantra was the well known “and the truth will set you free” and that was what I focused on

For you I’d think of something like “I will not feel guilty for living”

What’s that phrase? Nobody can make you feel guilty without your permission… so don’t give it.

You did nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing wrong.

Stop apologising for living, stop asking permission to breathe, to live, to laugh or do all of the things you know you have a right to do.

This man is as abusive today as he’s always been.

I’ve seen the poster boy of the anti dv charities, it was a joke. A stunning example even after all that therapy, all those government sponsored course, of him standing on a stage, minimising what he’d done to his ex, denying any responsibility and blaming her for leaving him.

In my experience they never change. They’re write offs.

@mzhz - you’re probably right. Maybe I won’t waste my breath. I didn’t let him make it into an argument earlier - I just let him tell me exactly how I was in the wrong and then just calmly walked off. He was satisfyingly wrong footed by my lack of grovelling!

So I definitely have a plan now. But I have to be patient for a few months to see it through.

@Cantdecideaway

Without knowing it, his reaction to yesterday’s incidents, this morning, has made my mind up for me. He’s still just as controlling and manipulative. He’s spent the day so far making me feel guilty about yesterday. I can’t WAIT to talk it through with him this evening when my son’s in bed. He has no idea how wrong he is.

I think you'd already made up your mind, @Cantdecideaway, you just didn't know it yet 😃

It's a bit like waking up: you just have to (a) stop letting him dictate what you're supposed to think and feel, and (b) pay attention to what you REALLY think and feel (instead of feeling ashamed for things he crudely applies to you for no particular reason, e.g. your "flirtatiousness" and you being "flaky" about getting home on time!).

I agree with @MzHz, you could talk till you're blue in the face with him tonight and the best you can hope for is that he will pretend to understand, and then implement more superficial changes so that you feel you no longer have a leg to stand on. You're better off saving your energies for the real work to be done.

Also a mahoosive high-five to you MzHz! 😊 Better late than never, hey. 😍

@Cantdecideaway

So I definitely have a plan now. But I have to be patient for a few months to see it through.

Mmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrvellous!!!!!!!

I’m thinking by the end of January I should be happily snuggled up on my own sofa doing EXACTLY what I want and not giving a flying fuck what time I got in yesterday

Now that's what I call a Happy New Year! ✨🎇🎆

Nice job, OP, well done 😊