DH and women’s underwear

[Needanothername1234]

Feeling a bit sick and need someone to tell me if I’m being horrible.
My DH wears women’s knickers. I first found out when I discovered some close up photos of him wearing my underwear on his computer (which I occasionally used with his permission) This happened after we’d been together for about 2 years and had moved in together. He said that it was a little kink when he masturbated sometimes, no big deal, so I asked him not to because he’d ruin my underwear.

Subsequently I found some knickers in the house after I’d been away. I immediately assumed he was having an affair, so was relieved to discover that he’d bought himself more underwear so that he wouldn’t fuck mine up. We talked about it, and I told him I felt upset by his furtive behaviour, and did he want to wear them during sex? I thought that by incorporating them into our sex life it would make him feel less ashamed. So we did that occasionally, and he openly had a few pairs he would wear with me, and I thought that would be enough.

We are now married and have been together for 10 years. During that time we’ve been through some really hard experiences including infertility, and our sex life has dwindled to almost non-existence. This is partly due to my libido disappearing (perimenopause) but also because DH makes no attempt to have sex. I’ve told him many times that I want to have sex with him and be intimate, even if my lack of libido means that I rarely make the first move. He swears that he still fancies me, and when we do have sex he still seems to be keen.

Over the last week we’ve been sleeping separately (insomnia/snoring) and I noticed that he’d shaved all his pubic hair off. I jokingly said that he was using the spare room as an opportunity to live out his sexual fantasies without my oppressive presence, and he just laughed and said it was more comfortable in the hot weather. Anyway, I lost something a couple of days ago and asked if I could look through his drawers to see if it was mixed up with his stuff. I then found two drawers full of knickers, stockings, etc. When I asked him about it it became apparent that he has now replaced me with masturbation, and he wears this stuff all the time and regularly buys it. I feel sick. It feels like he’s cheating on me, but not even with another woman. I’ve been cast aside in favour of a load of nasty polyester. The secrecy makes me feel so sick.

We’ve talked about it a lot, and it seems as though he wants to wear it all the time. I have no problem with him wearing it in bed sometimes as a dirty sex thing, but am really repulsed by the idea of him shaving and wearing it day to day. I feel like a horrible intolerant person, but I don’t know if I can fancy him if he goes down this feminine route. It really turns me off.

I am getting hrt to try and deal with my libido, but it feels as though he’s already written off our sex life. He’s a wonderful kind man and we’ve been through so much and I love him dearly, but I’m really struggling with the way he’s just written me out of his sex life. It’s crazy that I feel jealous. How do I deal with this?

I don’t know how to make this any clearer.
I’m not burying my head in the sand and assuming everything will be fine.
I have communicated a very clear set of boundaries to DH. He knows that those boundaries need to respected.

If he can’t or won’t respect those boundaries then I will not stay married to him because I don’t have any intention of being in a relationship with someone who puts his own sexual needs above my happiness.

Sorry if that doesn’t satisfy you and your very clear view of what my future holds. It’s a rare ability to know exactly what a complete stranger from an online forum has in store for her. Well done.

OP I don't have any advice (if indeed you need any; I'm not sure you do), I just wanted to congratulate you on being so level-headed about all this. I did a thread recently and it's a weird business isn't it? You begin to realise how impossible it is to convey the detailed reality of your relationship, and the more detail you go into, the more people project their own judgements onto it. You've dealt with all this with massive dignity and intelligence.

I just wanted to thank you for the most golden gems I've ever read on MN:

I’ve been cast aside in favour of a load of nasty polyester.

and

I’m not personally attracted to feminine men, but what I find most interesting is - how come when they want to explore their feminine side it’s always by wearing lacy knickers, and never by cleaning the toilet, putting a wash on and hoovering the stairs.

and

Given that we’ve been in lockdown for the last 18 months or whatever I think I’d have noticed if he was going to fetish nights in rubber stockings.

I hope you find a happy way forward, as you do sound as though you have a great marriage in all kinds of ways that really matter. 💗

FWIW I can see what your husband means about the contrast. In an odd way it might be his way of exaggerating his masculinity. (And certainly a lot easier than using a chainsaw or a sledgehammer!)

My mind is absolutely BOGGLING at this:
I can handle a mildly titillating shopping trip. Maybe I’ll get myself something too. 😋 😍 😎

@Alcemeg
‘ I did a thread recently and it's a weird business isn't it? You begin to realise how impossible it is to convey the detailed reality of your relationship, and the more detail you go into, the more people project their own judgements onto it.’

Thank you for expressing this far more elegantly than I have managed to do. Exactly this. It’s begun to feel like a parallel world - there have been so many embellishments and somewhat salacious ‘facts’ added to my story by PPs that it’s starting to read like a Take A Break article.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to share their experiences with me and offer support. I have found it incredibly helpful, even where our stories diverge.

@Needanothername1234
Yes, it's funny how enlightening the process is of just batting away all the misconstruals / prejudices / assumptions! You start to realise all the things you sort of take for granted in your life (e.g. mutual respect). Which in itself can be a helpful eye-opener.

it’s starting to read like a Take A Break article
🤣 🥰

I don’t think it reads like Take a Break.

It reads like the OP’s husband has a private fetish that the OP is trying to make ok by trying to ensure that he doesn’t indulge in it in private. She is rationalising that if they have more sex and incorporate the fetish into their sex life (let’s shop together! and he can wear sexy knickers when we have sex!) she can satisfy his fetishy urges in a way that means he’s comfortable and feels in control.

*she’s comfortable, not he’s.

I don’t think this ends well either. He may have dramatically chucked out one drawer load of knickers but whatever’s making him want to shave his balls, look at them in women’s knickers and wank isn’t going to go away. There’ll be a new stash soon

@nolongersurprised

*she’s comfortable, not he’s.

I don’t think this ends well either. He may have dramatically chucked out one drawer load of knickers but whatever’s making him want to shave his balls, look at them in women’s knickers and wank isn’t going to go away. There’ll be a new stash soon

Yes he will have a new stash because as the op has said they will go shopping together for some nicer pairs. I don't get the obsession with why he is shaving, no one wants a big bush poking out of their knickers, its really not an attractive look.

Yes he will have a new stash because as the op has said they will go shopping together for some nicer pairs

None of his actions suggest that he wants to share his fetish with his wife. The OP has said that she “feels replaced” by the fetish but is trying really hard to make it a shared experience and that she thought it would be “enough” if they had sex together with him in her knickers.

It wasn’t and it won’t be.

I'm sorry this has happened to you, OP. The kink itself may be quite common and harmless, but the secrecy is definitely not. Neither is secretly stealing your belongings for sexual purposes! Your discomfort is totally legitimate.

You don't have to be ok with your partner bringing a kink you don't share into your home. You can decide to join in, but only if you authentically want that and aren't feeling pressured to perform a kink to keep the peace. You can also decide that this kind of sexual identity is a deal-breaker for you.

It's a shame that people have jumped into this thread to air their totally irrelevant feelings about transgender women. Please don't let them alarm you. There's nothing you've said that even slightly suggests that that's what going on here.

Disclaimer: I'm part of a happy, active kink couple, and know a lot of underwear fetishists and trans women in my social circle (whaddaya know, there's no overlap between the latter two groups).

I really am perfectly happy to share this with him as part of our sex life. I have been all along.
The secrecy is the killer, and now means I don’t trust him.
He didn’t steal my underwear, he borrowed it. And when I discovered that and asked him not to he stopped and bought himself some instead.

Mending our sex life is going to take some work. I can totally see why he would opt for the easy wank, instead of the tough work of reinvigorating a sexual relationship that has been neglected for a long time, with a wife who hasn’t had any inclination.

None of that means I have forgiven him for this horrible situation, but I am willing to look at the potential reasons for him to have reverted to doing this secretly, and try to address those with him.

And I’m just going to say this one more time, cos it’s getting lost in all the talk of coercion and compromise - I want to have a good sex life with my husband. I want him to enjoy any and all kinks he might have during sex with me. And I want him to extend the same courtesy to me, as he has always done. No one’s forcing me.

I don’t want to be lied to, or neglected in favour of his fetish, and he unequivocally knows that that will be the end for us.

It’s really good to hear a few more viewpoints on this. I was starting to wonder if I was the only woman in the world who wasn’t appalled at the thought of a man in knickers in the bedroom.

[quote Alcemeg]@Needanothername1234
Yes, it's funny how enlightening the process is of just batting away all the misconstruals / prejudices / assumptions! You start to realise all the things you sort of take for granted in your life (e.g. mutual respect). Which in itself can be a helpful eye-opener.

it’s starting to read like a Take A Break article
🤣 🥰[/quote]
You’re reading my mind.
The more I have to put my point across and dispute all the wrong assumptions, the more I realise how different my feelings are to some of the other PPs, and the more I realise that I’m ok with a lot of the issues raised by this.
Thank you for being one of the voices of reason.

@Nowayhozay
‘I don't get the obsession with why he is shaving, no one wants a big bush poking out of their knickers, its really not an attractive look.’

I’m sorry to confess that I actually really like a big old bush - on me and on him. Maybe it was never about the knickers at all, maybe I just can’t handle the manscaping!

Would you try counselling both individually and together? It's interesting you don't mind it being incorporated into your sex life but you feel sick at him wearing different underwear just as every day underwear.

My partner wears lingerie now and then both in and out of the bedroom. The reason it is totally different is because I knew before we got together. I'll wait for everyone to tell me he is trans. I'm as sure as I can be that he isn't but if he is that would be fine. I'm pansexual so attracted to the person rather than their sex.

Would it help if you stopped gendering inanimate objects? Stop seeing clothes etc as to be worn by either men or women? Many women choose to wear boxer shorts now which were traditionally for men to wear?

I don't understand why some posters seem sure he is or will be trans and signposting you to transwidows? It seems as though he just likes to wear clothes traditionally worn by women.

Unfortunately OP some posters have had their lives turned upside down because of their partner transitioning. It has crushed them to the point where they believe every person with the type of fetish your husband has can't possibly stop there, in the posters mind he absolutely will transition because it happened to them and feels very common. That is their issue which they need help for. And some posters have such sad lives they enjoy trying to upset other posters and it's like they're desperate to be entertained by another's tragedy. They tell you "your husband is definitely trans and you must leave him now" in the hopes that you will leave and they can keep funnelling in the popcorn whilst waiting for your updates. Again, that is their issue that they need help with.

@EatWellStayFitDieAnyway
Thank you for your very thoughtful post. I totally agree with you regarding the PPs getting a thrill out of the drama, hence my Take a Break comment. I guess that’s fine - I read Mumsnet sometimes when I’m bored just to feel aghast at the ridiculous stories, though I don’t ever comment to stir the pot.

I think the trans widow aspect is very interesting. The more I read about it the less I connected to it. If anything it’s made me feel as certain as anyone can be that DH is not heading in that direction. Some of the tales are so awful and abusive and my heart goes out to everyone in that situation.

I have plenty of LGBT+ friends, and know a couple of trans folk too though not especially well, so I don’t feel that I have any prejudice towards it in theory. But I’m so straight myself that it’s almost boring. I’ve never been interested in pretty boys, let alone women - just very masculine looking men. I think that’s why I felt so upset at the thought of him looking feminine in daily life.

Interestingly, I work in a traditionally male role and environment, and am not in any way girly in my appearance or manner. I’m slightly put off by ultra-feminine women as well. So I suppose that makes me a bit of a hypocrite.

I’m not really sure why I feel so differently about lingerie as everyday wear compared to bedroom wear. I suppose til now it’s not something I’ve had to confront so counselling hasn’t been a consideration.

but I am willing to look at the potential reasons for him to have reverted to doing this secretly, and try to address those with him

You sound lovely, OP, but I think it’s naive to think that there are “reasons” you can fix by incorporating this fetish into an invigorated mutual sex life.

He does it because he gets off on wanking in female knickers, it’s a private fetish and it wasn’t caused by the two of you not having sex for a while. I don’t know if it’ll escalate or not, but it’s not going to regress by you joining in

My husband cavorting in lacy knickers would be a huge turn off to me. Make sure you don't end up indulging his fantasies whilst your sex life and fantasies get ignored which is common in these situations. Keep the power balance equal and ensure you still fancy him.

I suspect your low libido is more not fancying a man who is more in to sex with lacy knickers than sex with you and a bit more oestrogen won't fix your life. It's trendy to think HRT can fix all the problems middle aged women face but you both seem to have stopped fancying each other. You say he is "kind" which seems to be putting him in the asexual friend zone. His sex life no longer involves you.

The idea that anyone from the Transwidows thread would be relishing the OP suffering and shovelling in popcorn is incredibly offensive.

I can assure you we wish this on nobody.

Some of us are also now in blissfully happy relationships with entirely fulfilling sex lives with men who have never let us down and had a secret sex life entirely separate from us. We just happen to think everyone is deserving of that without pandering to things that make us feel sick.

Do what you want, go shopping in Victoria’s Secret together, have fun, and good luck.

Yes good luck. Shame this has been diverted into enthusiastic transwidow-bashing by some posters. They were trying to help and contribute their experience and advice... you seem to be at the point of working out your boundaries, and what you want out of this, and I hope it works out for you.

I really don’t think there is any trans widow bashing going on. There are certainly some PPs on this thread who are filling in the blanks in my story with exaggerated details from their own imaginations. They are not in most cases the same people who are thoughtfully offering me insights into their trans widow experiences, and warning me what might happen.

@2rebecca
Given the fairly extensive number of perimenopausal problems I’m having, libido being just one of them, I am taking HRT to generally improve my life. Hopefully it will have a positive affect on my libido too. You have no idea why I don’t fancy my husband any more. I continued to fancy him for several years after finding out he like to ‘cavort in lacy knickers’ so, with all due respect, you are projecting your own feelings about men in underwear on to me. Very few PPs on this thread seem able to grasp the idea that their feelings about it might not be shared by everyone else.

The fact is that cross dressing is a fetish that goes through binge and purge cycles, and may escalate into a full time obsession.

People post on Relationships when they only have a few pieces of the jigsaw, can't see the pattern, and need help. If you don't want to hear about negative experiences then just say so.

The thing is it's actually less about the wearing of the knickers and more about his lying , secrecy , aversion to sex with the OP and withdrawing from the marital bed.

@Thelnebriati

The fact is that cross dressing is a fetish that goes through binge and purge cycles, and may escalate into a full time obsession.

People post on Relationships when they only have a few pieces of the jigsaw, can't see the pattern, and need help. If you don't want to hear about negative experiences then just say so.

I’ve made it pretty clear all the way through that I DO want to hear the negative experiences as well, and that I’m finding them helpful. All the comments have given me stuff to consider.

It doesn’t automatically follow that my life is going to follow the pattern of other PPs on here.
Some PPs have experience of this fetish not escalating or causing problems.
Some PPs have experience of it escalating and destroying their relationships.
All of these stories are equally valid.

Why are you so keen for me to only listen the negative stories? Do the other women who’ve commented on here not deserve the same respect?

@Thelnebriati

The fact is that cross dressing is a fetish that goes through binge and purge cycles, and may escalate into a full time obsession.

People post on Relationships when they only have a few pieces of the jigsaw, can't see the pattern, and need help. If you don't want to hear about negative experiences then just say so.

Cross dressing is not necessarily a fetish. There are many varied reasons why people cross dress.

The op's DH has a fetish for womens underwear as do a surprisingly large number of men.

@MrsMaizel

The thing is it's actually less about the wearing of the knickers and more about his lying , secrecy , aversion to sex with the OP and withdrawing from the marital bed.

Have you actually read the op's posts ??