DH and women’s underwear

[Needanothername1234]

Feeling a bit sick and need someone to tell me if I’m being horrible.
My DH wears women’s knickers. I first found out when I discovered some close up photos of him wearing my underwear on his computer (which I occasionally used with his permission) This happened after we’d been together for about 2 years and had moved in together. He said that it was a little kink when he masturbated sometimes, no big deal, so I asked him not to because he’d ruin my underwear.

Subsequently I found some knickers in the house after I’d been away. I immediately assumed he was having an affair, so was relieved to discover that he’d bought himself more underwear so that he wouldn’t fuck mine up. We talked about it, and I told him I felt upset by his furtive behaviour, and did he want to wear them during sex? I thought that by incorporating them into our sex life it would make him feel less ashamed. So we did that occasionally, and he openly had a few pairs he would wear with me, and I thought that would be enough.

We are now married and have been together for 10 years. During that time we’ve been through some really hard experiences including infertility, and our sex life has dwindled to almost non-existence. This is partly due to my libido disappearing (perimenopause) but also because DH makes no attempt to have sex. I’ve told him many times that I want to have sex with him and be intimate, even if my lack of libido means that I rarely make the first move. He swears that he still fancies me, and when we do have sex he still seems to be keen.

Over the last week we’ve been sleeping separately (insomnia/snoring) and I noticed that he’d shaved all his pubic hair off. I jokingly said that he was using the spare room as an opportunity to live out his sexual fantasies without my oppressive presence, and he just laughed and said it was more comfortable in the hot weather. Anyway, I lost something a couple of days ago and asked if I could look through his drawers to see if it was mixed up with his stuff. I then found two drawers full of knickers, stockings, etc. When I asked him about it it became apparent that he has now replaced me with masturbation, and he wears this stuff all the time and regularly buys it. I feel sick. It feels like he’s cheating on me, but not even with another woman. I’ve been cast aside in favour of a load of nasty polyester. The secrecy makes me feel so sick.

We’ve talked about it a lot, and it seems as though he wants to wear it all the time. I have no problem with him wearing it in bed sometimes as a dirty sex thing, but am really repulsed by the idea of him shaving and wearing it day to day. I feel like a horrible intolerant person, but I don’t know if I can fancy him if he goes down this feminine route. It really turns me off.

I am getting hrt to try and deal with my libido, but it feels as though he’s already written off our sex life. He’s a wonderful kind man and we’ve been through so much and I love him dearly, but I’m really struggling with the way he’s just written me out of his sex life. It’s crazy that I feel jealous. How do I deal with this?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

‘By that logic, and your continued assertions that you're fine with it in principle, you should just accept your husband likes something different to you.’

I do accept that he likes something different to me. I don’t accept that it is appropriate to be wanking in lingerie instead of having sex with me because I don’t think that is a good way to keep a marriage alive.

Some of your other points are very confused. You make statements that are untrue and then when I dispute them you contradict your own earlier posts.

The other element is that he likes the feel of the types of fabrics used in women’s underwear more than he likes the fabric used in men’s. He finds men’s underwear very dull. This is why he says he’d like to wear it every day. I pointed out that actually a lot of women’s underwear is scratchy and uncomfortable and gives you a wedgie, and he said that he would probably realise that was true after a couple of days and not want to do it anymore. At the moment I don’t think the desire for everyday wear is sexual

Of course he does and of course he will .

The other element is that he likes the feel of the types of fabrics used in women’s underwear more than he likes the fabric used in men’s. He finds men’s underwear very dull

You know this is bullshit OP, of course it’s sexual.

How many middle aged people who are married look for excitement in their day-to-day underwear choices 🙄

I also think with something like this some people sometimes seek to make the facts fit what they are familiar with.

12th Rule of Misogyny: Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry

Signed a defiantly non "crushed" trans widow.

PS posters don't need to keep @ing me on the thread please.

Name changed for this. I hope because I never talk about it.

ExH had an underwear fetish, I dealt with it in a slightly less accepting way to you - was OK with him wearing it to wank but did not want it involved in our sex life at all.

Over time he developed a substantial porn habit and started paying for online sex. I think that was related to the fetish based on the people he regularly visited but I can't be sure.

From my perspective, our sex life was frequent but disconnected and he used to tell me I was vanilla and prudish for not wanting to wear lingerie all the time/visit sex shops etc. It really damaged my self esteem and enjoyment of sex.

When we split up he told me that I'd made him feel bad by not incorporating the fetish in our sex life.

Basically although he hasn't escalated to transitioning the fetish and the associated behaviours were very damaging to me because sex was so linked to it and I didn't know. I thought I'd set a boundary that I was OK with but he resented that boundary and used it as justification to be unfaithful.

The shame your husband feels is all tied up with his compulsion to do this and I don't think there is anything you can do to manage it. I don't have advice but please look after yourself. Maybe get some counselling so you have support to talk about this.

God, imagine having to wear men's underwear all the time. I've always thought women are luckier having such unlimited choice of fabrics and textures, in all aspects of our clothing. It sounds as though your DH is a true sensualist (as well as a filthy disgusting pervert, obvs! 😋).

OP, your posts are perfectly logical and consistent to me. I don't see you going round in circles, except in fending off comments that are wide of the mark and sometimes seem to be motivated by shock that you're not disgusted by your DH.

To me, FWIW, this is all about:
(1) How important is sex? Does it matter if libido fades, or must we always fan it back into life? (and if so, why?)
(2) How private is sexual fantasy? How much do we share, how much do we keep to ourselves? Does it matter?
(3) What do we expect our partners to think about when having a wank? My DH and I once joked that it would be a failure of imagination to think about each other. That's really lame.

@nolongersurprised
‘ I think what you’re looking for is people saying, “My DH did this as well and I hated him masturbating in secret but when I agreed to incorporate it into our mutual sex life he kept it under control and stopped with his private wank dungeon. It didn’t do anything sexually for me but i wasn’t grossed out and it was worth it because it kept his fetish under control”.

Of course, because I have so few critical faculties that the only responses worth listening to are those which exactly echo my own mad hopes and dreams.

The only response from me that you’re willing to hear is that I unreservedly agree with everything you’re saying. Where’s your imagination? What kind of crazy world do you live in where anyone who doesn’t exactly agree with all of your opinions has to be continually shot down. Do you ever entertain the idea of someone having a valid opinion that differs to yours?

@MrsMaizel
‘ so how has this thread changed your opinions this week?’

It’s taught me that I’m a lot more flexible in my outlook than the majority of PPs.

It’s shown me that differentiation isn’t an easy concept for some people to grasp.

Do you ever entertain the idea of someone having a valid opinion that differs to yours?

Of course. Where have I said I haven’t? In fact, that was the point of my post - some people are warning you about escalation because that’s their experience. Some are telling you to go for it and embrace for DH’s fetish because they have and found it fun. Some, like me, would be so grossed out by their DH wanking in female underwear and stockings that it would put them (me) off forever.

These are genuine and valid responses and many are different to mine.

But you don’t actually like this fetish when he carries it out how he wants to (wanking in women’s underwear in private) and don’t actually find it sexually arousing when he wears them in bed with you. The response you’re after is someone posting how if they went along with parts of it they could CONTROL their DH’s fetish and no one has said that.

@alcemeg

1. Sex is really important to me. The loss of it has made me feel really unhappy. I don’t feel ready to slide into comfortable middle-age yet. The circumstances which led to it (libido, infertility, constant travel caring for sick relative 300 miles away) are understandable but I’m sad that it spiralled out of control and that we both let that happen. I think I’m still a bit too young to leave it in the rear view.

1. I once read a book about women’s sexual fantasies that involved dogs, gorillas, rape, and all kinds of crazy stuff. I’m of the opinion that the contents of your head are your own affair.

1. I don’t really mind what my partner thinks about when he’s having a wank, though I’d probably be surprised if it involved dogs or gorillas.

It seems a bit shit as well that as you’re trying to reignite your sex life after a long hiatus complicated by hormonal changes etc it’s all become all about him and addressing his fetishy needs.

There is another thread on MN the moment where women are asking about where to find comfortable underwear. Many of the responses recommend wearing men’s boxers. Last time I looked no one was jumping in and accusing those women of being perverts or suggesting that they were about to transition. So that’s an interesting double standard
This would make perfect sense if he was buying the massive, high waisted, Sloggi style comfort knickers. But he’s not, he’s buying little polyester numbers and stockings.

@nolongersurprised
‘ But you don’t actually like this fetish when he carries it out how he wants to (wanking in women’s underwear in private) and don’t actually find it sexually arousing when he wears them in bed with you. The response you’re after is someone posting how if they went along with parts of it they could CONTROL their DH’s fetish and no one has said that.’

I don’t like the fetish when it replaces sex with me. I’m pretty sure that I said earlier that I like to see him enjoying any fetish he has when he’s in bed with me, because I gain enjoyment from seeing him turned on, just the same as he likes to see me being turned on.

I’m not after any particular type of response. I’ve said over and over that all the responses are worthwhile and have given me food for thought.
I’ve taken on board all the comments about escalation and looked at how they apply to my situation. PPs are sharing their experiences. Their experiences sometimes contradict mine. So whose experience is more valid?

Why is everyone so invested in the idea that there cannot be a happy outcome? I’ve repeatedly said that I’m open to the idea of an UNhappy outcome, but no, that’s not enough, I have to absolutely agree with the negative opinions or I’m minimising and dismissing and being defensive.

Why is it unacceptable for me to voice a contradictory idea?

@nolongersurprised

It seems a bit shit as well that as you’re trying to reignite your sex life after a long hiatus complicated by hormonal changes etc it’s all become all about him and addressing his fetishy needs.

It’s really not all about him and his fetishy needs though. This thread is all about him and his fetishy needs, but the conversations I’m having with DH are just as much about me and my (mostly unfetishy) needs.

Why is everyone so invested in the idea that there cannot be a happy outcome?

Because he gains sexual pleasure by shacing his genitals and wank in private in women’s underwear, which he stashed away in secret and because you don’t like him doing this.

You want him to stop doing this in secret and are hoping that if he wears knickers in bed with you it’ll stop.

There have been a lot of responses about how people would feel about this and what their experience has been of this but no one else thinks that the genie will go back in the bottle.

@SaladDressed

Name changed for this. I hope because I never talk about it.

ExH had an underwear fetish, I dealt with it in a slightly less accepting way to you - was OK with him wearing it to wank but did not want it involved in our sex life at all.

Over time he developed a substantial porn habit and started paying for online sex. I think that was related to the fetish based on the people he regularly visited but I can't be sure.

From my perspective, our sex life was frequent but disconnected and he used to tell me I was vanilla and prudish for not wanting to wear lingerie all the time/visit sex shops etc. It really damaged my self esteem and enjoyment of sex.

When we split up he told me that I'd made him feel bad by not incorporating the fetish in our sex life.

Basically although he hasn't escalated to transitioning the fetish and the associated behaviours were very damaging to me because sex was so linked to it and I didn't know. I thought I'd set a boundary that I was OK with but he resented that boundary and used it as justification to be unfaithful.

The shame your husband feels is all tied up with his compulsion to do this and I don't think there is anything you can do to manage it. I don't have advice but please look after yourself. Maybe get some counselling so you have support to talk about this.

Thank you for sharing this. I’m sorry that this experience damaged your self esteem. I hope that things are better since you split up. I can see we have some common ground.

Me: I’m aware that my marriage may end because of this and improving our sex life may not be enough to save it. His fetish may still worsen.

Everyone else: Why won’t you listen to the fact that your marriage will end and you won’t change anything by having more sex and his fetish is out of control?

Me: I already said that I understand that could happen.

Everyone else: Stop being defensive. Stop minimising.

Look at it this way op .
How many men would find it arousing if their partners started wearing mens clothes and underwear during sex , I think their answers would be the same as the answers you have here op.

@Needanothername1234

Me: I’m aware that my marriage may end because of this and improving our sex life may not be enough to save it. His fetish may still worsen.

Everyone else: Why won’t you listen to the fact that your marriage will end and you won’t change anything by having more sex and his fetish is out of control?

Me: I already said that I understand that could happen.

Everyone else: Stop being defensive. Stop minimising.

Lol welcome to MN. Anything with a penis is an abuser and a beast.

Ok, best of luck OP.

I’m fairly new to MN but am frequently shocked by the polarised judgemental opinions that people express, and particularly in relation to trans people.

What opinions shock you about trans people on here?

It comes from a place of concern for you not being blindsided if he suddenly goes down the route many of us think is likely, not from a place of being horrible to you. Why are you concerned she will be "blindsided" when she's having a measured response along the lines of "I'm pretty sure he isn't trans but I am aware he could be, we'll have to wait and see"?

You were seeking a place to discuss it Yes to discuss the situation @Needanothername1234 has found her life in. Not for people to just keep telling her he is trans and she needs to realise that and/or for people to say they are disgusted by it and therefore the right course of action is divorce. That may be the case for them but they're actively ignoring how the OP feels and ignoring the fact that an underwear fetish is something which can exist without being trans. There are so many fetishes out there, possibly posters don't understand this which is why they jump to trans as they are familiar with it?

I don't know but I think @Needanothername1234 just wants to be heard, actively listened to and support to work things out in her own head in a safe space/sounding board without being told repeatedly shouted down by people forcing their views down her throat. Sorry @Needanothername1234 I may be totally wrong but it's kind of how I perceive it.

So sorry to hear what you have been through @SaladDressed. This stood out to me; When we split up he told me that I'd made him feel bad by not incorporating the fetish in our sex life. Because what he was saying was that it is his wife's duty to entertain every sexual want regardless of if she enthusiastically consents. He didn't care for your pleasure or enjoyment, he was happy to have you feel forced or have you do it anyway even though you didn't want to. People like that are trash. I wish you every happiness in the future.

@Needanothername1234 I've just read your post from 11:55. Absolutely spot on and it did make me chuckle although sadly that type of exchange is ridiculously common on Mumsnet. There are some absolutely wonderful posters and I personally have received invaluable device. With that, unfortunately there are some twats too 😂

*It’s taught me that I’m a lot more flexible in my outlook than the majority of PPs.

It’s shown me that differentiation isn’t an easy concept for some people to grasp.*

^This is ridiculous, OP. You are wanting to show off how flexible you are and cool about everything. When that’s what’s causing you your own problem - you aren’t flexible and cool about it at all and your want it to stop.

(Yes, you do want it to stop. You are suggesting ‘incorporating’ it into your sex life as a compromise for your guilt at low libido. Otherwise, you’d want it to stop.)

@Needanothername1234

Me: I’m aware that my marriage may end because of this and improving our sex life may not be enough to save it. His fetish may still worsen.

Everyone else: Why won’t you listen to the fact that your marriage will end and you won’t change anything by having more sex and his fetish is out of control?

Me: I already said that I understand that could happen.

Everyone else: Stop being defensive. Stop minimising.

It's up to you what you do and don't accept sexually, however this stood out -

He has expressed a desire to wear them more often, but I have expressed a desire to marry Ryan Gosling. It’s ok to have fantasies

I'm sorry OP, but this is so incredibly naive. They are not the same think at all.

In that kind of sexual interest there's usually internalised misogyny or complex mother issues.