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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

718 replies

KormasABitch · 20/07/2021 13:33

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 12:51

@Mumteedum

Goodness..I just waded through your thread. I started reading when you first posted and have mainly only read your posts in catching up.

My observations for what it's worth

  1. The positive way you talk about Pete far, far outweighs the negatives
  1. John is a friend but you both enjoy having a friend with a frisson of possibility. This is fantasy for you both. Lots of us do this. I have a long term close male friend. I don't really find him attractive as a partner and vice versa but sometimes the closeness and values you share as friends when you lack some of those things in a partner can give rise to little flights of fancy...as you are exploring here!
  1. John frankly is not an option. I know you think he is. I don't doubt you could both hop into bed and scratch that itch but John does not want a life with you as a partner. I think you'd scare him. I think the things you find attractive in him now (security) would actually make you feel criticized.
  1. It isn't really about John. Your posts are mainly about you and your life and how wonderful your Pete is despite the flaws in your life together. There's a ton of positives about your relationship.
  1. Throwing Pete away for a fantasy with John would not solve anything. Likely you'd end up with neither of them.
I just wanted to thank you for this very clear sight, @Mumteedum Flowers

Exactly!

OP posts:
Charley50 · 24/07/2021 12:52

I'm guessing you live in Portugal. But I know you won't confirm or deny Grin

KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 12:53

@whatkindofdaughter

What are the most important things to you for the next year, 5 years, 20 years? Making the best out of life.

What attracts you to Korma given she says you are not with her for her looks?
She is the most amazing woman in the world.

Sorry but these are not proper answers. It's waffle. Like the old Miss World competition where they all want to be 'rich and travel.' Grin

Making the best out of life is not an answer. It needs detail. What would he want in a year? How would he achieve that?

We don't have time for me to bore you with the details of his business plan! Seriously?

And if you can't see why he'd think I'm the most amazing woman in the world, well I don't know what thread you've been reading 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 12:54

@Charley50

I'm guessing you live in Portugal. But I know you won't confirm or deny Grin
Congratulations @Charley50 you win today's top prize!!!!! Star
OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:08

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

It sounds as though you are edging towards some basic self awareness.
That sounds very generous, thanks! 🤣

But Jesus Christ your finances! If it was me I’d be hyperventilating in panic.
Yes, quite. That’s why I don’t feel ashamed of having taken what some might call a rather hard-nosed look at my options, and why I don’t beat myself up about getting carried away with fantasy. I’d love to see someone else try my position for a few years without losing any confidence in themselves.
I don’t think a buy-to-rent in the UK is the solution, as (1) I don’t want to live in the UK again and (2) finding a decent tenant is hard enough, without trying to manage it all from abroad.
You don’t have to live in the UK to claim your UK pension.

When you started this thread it was all about your romantic options. But I don’t think that’s your actual dilemma at all. What’s actually bugging you is…
And yes and yes and yes and yes and yes!

But be in no doubt: his ability to tolerate a low income would leave you in a poor and miserable old age.
Really? Well, you’re clearly 100% sure of that. However, I am ready to wait and see. In my experience with him, when “tomorrow” finally comes, it’s worth the wait.

Start a new thread, make it about finances primarily. You don’t have the luxury of emotional self indulgence, your problems are too big for all this misplaced romantic wafting.
Don’t worry, I think the misplaced romantic wafting has died its death! And I don’t need another thread about finances. That’s where good old John comes in 😉 He’s filed back in his proper place now, under “Finances” and not under “Romance.”

OP posts:
whatkindofdaughter · 24/07/2021 13:12

We don't have time for me to bore you with the details of his business plan! Seriously?

Does he have a plan? Hmm

Deflecting questions (again) that get to the heart of all of this.

Don't need a business plan, Confused just a summary of 'I want to make £20K (or whatever) selling xxxx online.'

Can't honestly see how Covid has stopped an online business, but your posts often omit the important details like location, what he sells, what your work is blah blah.

As if we could work out your ID from a few vague details like that :)

Good luck with it all anyway.

KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:13

@whatkindofdaughter

You had an abusive marriage, then you had “relationships … with men who were more fun, but basically parasites”. Not trying to stick the knife in, but this does sound very much like it's what you still have, although Pete is 'kinder' about it.

Yes, I completely understand that’s your view, if that’s all you can see.

The fun parasites were many years ago and believe me, I did the work to sort myself out, and this relationship is very unlike those.

I know you won’t believe me, so perhaps you’ll believe my sensible oldest brother. Despite our current circumstances, he says Pete is the best thing that ever happened to me. And my brother is a go-getting career man who drives a Jaguar.

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:14

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Oh and therapy / counselling is immensely valuable. Your resistance to trying it says a lot about how uncomfortable you are with your emotions.

Am I really uncomfortable with my emotions? Or am I just satisfied that my issue has been resolved?

OP posts:
whatkindofdaughter · 24/07/2021 13:15

And my brother is a go-getting career man who drives a Jaguar.

Phew. Thank goodness for that. I'd have been worried had it been a BMW or a Ferrari.

KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:20

@whatkindofdaughter

Just to get some reality into the finances. A lot of advisors (and it's in the press too) say that to have a reasonable retirement, where you can have a holiday, buy a car, enjoy life a bit, you need to have pensions totalling £25Kpa. The state pension will give you around 9K at present. The shortfall comes from earnings (if someone carries on working) or a private pension.

If you want to draw down a pension (private) of even £10K a year, you need a pretty big lump in your pension pot. There is NO WAY you can accumulate that now at 60.

You talked about having stocks and shares. Are they going to provide you with £thousands for up to 30 years?

I should be able to set aside £50K/year over the next 5 or 6 years, and that will make a difference. By then, Pete should be earning enough to keep us both. We don't have an extravagant lifestyle and are never going to buy another ruin!

There's also the equity in this house, which we have no mortgage on, and the house is pretty gorgeous now.

I think my panic has to do with suddenly realising I'm not 25 years old any more. That particular penny was rather slow to drop.

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:20

@whatkindofdaughter

And my brother is a go-getting career man who drives a Jaguar.

Phew. Thank goodness for that. I'd have been worried had it been a BMW or a Ferrari.

LOL!!!
OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:23

@Bumpsadaisie
You say you think Pete is "golden" but do you, really? What comes across here is that you don't respect him much. For whatever reason, I wonder if that is something that it is hard for you to really know about.
Hard for me to "know about"?! Well, it’s certainly hard for me to accept. Since that’s not how I feel at all. I’m surprised that’s what you get from this thread. It seems to me everyone is trying to tell me not to respect him, and yet I do, for reasons that I now recognise as solid.

OP posts:
whatkindofdaughter · 24/07/2021 13:26

This has been a fascinating read OP.

What strikes me is that over 4 days, the irritations of Pete as you so clearly explained here

General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

have disappeared now you have discounted John as a partner.

But this is not accurate. Life didn't throw you anything; you decided to consider John as a new partner as the reality of life with Pete sank in.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

You have now accepted your 'lot' and defended Pete at every opportunity.

You have a plan for your finances which eluded you 4 days ago.
There was no need to panic.

So everything is good. :)

KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:27

@CatherineAragon

Just a thought... how would Pete feel if he read this thread? I can't imagine he would be anything but devastated.
I’d be happy for him to read this thread. That’s why I no longer care if the Daily Fail get their claws into it (not that I think they’d be in the least bit interested). There’s nothing here he doesn’t know about, including my “torch for John” (= historical saviour) when under extreme financial stress.

If you are as close as you say, would he not be gutted that you are thinking of exchanging him for a man he has met once in all the time you have been together?
No, because this is something I had to work through. It’s my equivalent of something he went through before we were living together/married, when he got a crush on a lovely woman his own age. He had to make some hard decisions about what was important to him, and he hasn’t looked back.
(I know you’re thinking: Ah! He chose MONEY!!!) 🤩

If John is such a close friend, why have you seen so little of him in the time you have been with Pete?
Because he lives on the other side of the world.

OP posts:
Roussette · 24/07/2021 13:28

@KormasABitch

I totally get the sorting yourself out without therapy bit. I have had therapy a long long time ago to do with parent problems. I found it of little help. But when I needed to sort some other seperate issues a long time later, the best thing I did was doggedly working through it myself. Took quite a while but given I had been involved in a role helping others with horrendous issues, I managed it.

And felt like it was sorted for good.

As long as you are making steps and plans to sort out the financial inequality in your relationship... that is what is important. So that you never have John The Romantic thoughts again!

KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:29

@whatkindofdaughter

This has been a fascinating read OP.

What strikes me is that over 4 days, the irritations of Pete as you so clearly explained here

General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

have disappeared now you have discounted John as a partner.

But this is not accurate. Life didn't throw you anything; you decided to consider John as a new partner as the reality of life with Pete sank in.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

You have now accepted your 'lot' and defended Pete at every opportunity.

You have a plan for your finances which eluded you 4 days ago.
There was no need to panic.

So everything is good. :)

Thank you so much @whatkindofdaughter, yes! Exactly!

I must say that your posts have often terrified me but also really made me think, and I feel much clearer than I would have done if you hadn't asked them. So I am very grateful that you took the time to write. Flowers Flowers Flowers

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:35

[quote Roussette]@KormasABitch

I totally get the sorting yourself out without therapy bit. I have had therapy a long long time ago to do with parent problems. I found it of little help. But when I needed to sort some other seperate issues a long time later, the best thing I did was doggedly working through it myself. Took quite a while but given I had been involved in a role helping others with horrendous issues, I managed it.

And felt like it was sorted for good.

As long as you are making steps and plans to sort out the financial inequality in your relationship... that is what is important. So that you never have John The Romantic thoughts again![/quote]
Thank you Roussette Flowers Wine Cake
I feel so so so much better for having aired my dirty laundry here.

I had counselling too, years ago when I kept messing up my life. What helped me more was an acid trip! Good luck hiding thoughts and feelings from yourself when under the influence of a powerful psychedelic. It was like about 20 years of therapy in 5 hours. And once that door is unlocked, there's no need to keep opening it. I feel very safe with my feelings and thoughts, and can usually make sense of them fairly quickly. This whole episode really knocked me for six because it felt completely beyond my capacity to make sense of or control. I am very grateful to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

An amazing thing happened this morning: I got my tax bill for last year. I've had an endless struggle with accountants here, with mistakes made and all kinds of mayhem, and for various reasons I had reached a point where I had almost no idea what my tax bill was likely to be. And guess what, it's come in a bit LOWER than I had budgeted for.

So I feel absolutely jubilant (a) that I managed to budget ahead for once in my sweet life, and (b) that it is well within my means to pay. It suddenly struck me that anxiety about this has also been hovering over me for months and has probably contributed more than I realise to my sense of loss of control.

We are off out tonight to a lovely new local restaurant! I feel we have much to celebrate. 🥰

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:37

Sorry I can't remember who asked this:

You have a very high opinion of your worth to men, and I wonder why this is , given you've been in an abusive marriage in the past?

No, I don't have a very high opinion of my worth to men. Other men have treated me like shit. And no doubt other men wouldn't think I was worth much because I'm past my sell-by date.

I have a very solid understanding of my value to Pete.

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:40

@Shybutnotretiring

OP's in a catch -22 situation. ... she'll be thoroughly pissed off with this in a few years' time. ... [but] the harsh reality of the situation is that she may be financially better off continuing in a marriage where she supports him.
Well, if you've got about 5 months to spare, you could RTFT. I don't think that's my situation at all.

Mind you, you might RTFT and still think that! But I don't.

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:44

@sunshinesupermum

Not sure how you both can survive on the miserable UK pension OP. At age 60 you will be reliant on Pete bringing home the bacon no matter how much you earn now and begin to save for the future.
I know! Pete had better get his act together. He says I can go off with John now if I want, and he wouldn't blame me, or wait and see what "tomorrow" brings, and boot him out if he doesn't come up trumps.

I've made my position clear and feel really happy about it.

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 13:57

@SorryWoman

you said he had flat out told you he didnt find you beautiful.
No, sorry, I should have said, that was when I was asking if he wouldn't prefer to be with someone closer to his own age. He does find me attractive. And honestly, I’m quite hot for my age! People are always surprised to find I’m not 15 years younger. I've been asked to show them my driving licence to prove it. It’s just that compared with women >20 years younger than me, you know, sit us side by side and take a photo, I’m just not in the same league. I’m just really happy his priorities lie elsewhere, so I never have to prance and preen to compete. With men my own age, I used to feel constantly insecure about my appearance. That’s a thing of the past, and it’s a relief not to have to worry about it.

You say Pete has had two other women ask to marry him, which surprises me somewhat. You do hear of women doing the asking a lot these days, but it's still less common than the reverse, and he's had three of you ask.
He treats women well. One of them loved the way he became a proper dad to her child. The other one wanted kids with him.

How do you feel about heading back to the UK?
I don’t fancy living there any more. Well, I would go back if I could afford to live, say, somewhere fabulous in Dorset. But I think Pete needs to become a millionaire to afford that kind of space!!!!!

How do you feel about being with neither guy?
I’ve lived alone for many years and was perfectly contented with it. I’d rather live with Pete, though. Honestly, you know when you get together with someone you haven’t seen for ages and you just bounce off each other’s company non stop? We’re like that from the minute we get up every morning. I don’t think that’s to be sniffed at.

OP posts:
SimonedeBeauvoirscat · 24/07/2021 13:58

So it turns out there’s an answer for everything, after all! I’m glad you seem to have regained your perspective on life, OP. I’m interested though: you created this thread in such a funk and said a few things about the aspects of life with Pete which you find frustrating. Are they still the case? Have you decided putting up with it is simply the compromise you’re willing to make in order to be with him? This isn’t a criticism, it’s a genuine question. You’ve swung from ‘should I leave him?’ To ‘everything is great and on track’ and I’m interested to know what’s changed for you.

The point of therapy / counselling btw is to teach you the skills of self-reflection yourself. It doesn’t have to be a one-to-one conversation; there are plenty of books too. If you’d developed those skills a bit more, perhaps you wouldn’t need other people to help you towards these thought processes via the medium of MN? Just a thought.

KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 14:00

@allwhatkindofdaughter

given Pete was attracted to you because he found someone 'so intelligent' it's weird that you have been an ostrich regarding your long term finances.
Yes, well. Oops! Didn’t I mention I’ve been a fucking moron where finances are concerned? Can’t win at everything. Promise to do better in future! 😊

OP posts:
KormasABitch · 24/07/2021 14:07

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

So it turns out there’s an answer for everything, after all! I’m glad you seem to have regained your perspective on life, OP. I’m interested though: you created this thread in such a funk and said a few things about the aspects of life with Pete which you find frustrating. Are they still the case? Have you decided putting up with it is simply the compromise you’re willing to make in order to be with him? This isn’t a criticism, it’s a genuine question. You’ve swung from ‘should I leave him?’ To ‘everything is great and on track’ and I’m interested to know what’s changed for you.

The point of therapy / counselling btw is to teach you the skills of self-reflection yourself. It doesn’t have to be a one-to-one conversation; there are plenty of books too. If you’d developed those skills a bit more, perhaps you wouldn’t need other people to help you towards these thought processes via the medium of MN? Just a thought.

Thank you @SimonedeBeauvoirscat!

I think when I first posted, I was honestly beside myself with anxiety. (For reasons that I think you will appreciate!)

And there is no doubt that Pete can be a lazy arse, and that given the option to enjoy himself he will.

But through closer examination of various assumptions in myself and on this thread, I also know that when something needs doing he steps up and makes a good job of it. He is also competent and resourceful.

In my first marriage, life was very static. I never did anything new or different and was terrified of risk. I spent weekends cleaning the bathroom and looking after my husband, who had an endless mountain of demands and was never satisfied.

Over the years I have become far more of a risk-taker. I think what's hit me recently is that this is the wrong age to have that sort of approach, especially where financial security is concerned. I'm not 25 any more. But I've learned my lesson.

OP posts:
whatkindofdaughter · 24/07/2021 14:09

[quote KormasABitch]@allwhatkindofdaughter

given Pete was attracted to you because he found someone 'so intelligent' it's weird that you have been an ostrich regarding your long term finances.
Yes, well. Oops! Didn’t I mention I’ve been a fucking moron where finances are concerned? Can’t win at everything. Promise to do better in future! 😊[/quote]
If you are a high earner which you must be if you are going to squirrel away £50K pa [after tax] as well as providing income to live on, do think about consulting a financial advisor. (and not that bloody John!)

Although saving £50K pa for 5 years is a LOT, bear in mind that in 30 years' time, the value will have dropped hugely with inflation. And although having £250K in the bank by the time you are 65 is excellent, it will soon be eaten up.

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