Lovely husband versus different life with friend – what to do?

[KormasABitch]

Apologies for the long post, I will try not to dripfeed.

I have a lovely husband, let’s call him Pete. We’ve been together almost a decade. He’s devoted to me, endlessly kind; nothing is too much trouble. A few years ago, we moved to a country where, unfortunately, he can’t get work (I’m OK as I work online). We’re planning to move elsewhere. In the meantime, he does all the shopping and cooking, chops wood for the fire, etc. We get on brilliantly and have none of the irritations I associate even with close friendships. We have the same tastes in music, films etc and often enjoy lovely weekends away doing things together like hiking or cycling. We never get bored with each other’s company.

Pete’s quite a bit younger than me, which hasn’t worried us over the years because as far as we’re concerned, being incredibly compatible is so lucky that it outweighs everything. However, one snag is our difference in life experience. He’s used to renting a place, and I’m not sure he’ll ever be what I’d call a responsible home owner. General maintenance etc doesn’t seem to occur to him, and I don’t want to be a nag, but find the overall neglect depressing when I’m so busy. He covers the basics, but anything else is a bit like pushing water uphill.

None of this might have mattered had it not been for life throwing me a curve ball.

My oldest friend, “John” (we’ve known each other 20-odd years), got divorced a couple of years ago. I helped him through the emotional process. We’ve always been close (despite him living in another country), but I suppose that brought us a bit closer for a while. I never thought much of it when he left his wife, but over the past couple of years we have exchanged friendly (not flirtatious!) messages and sometimes I find myself pining for the kind of life I could have with him. Over the years, we’ve had some great adventures together (when married to other people, so we never acknowledged or acted on the chemistry that was there), we have a good laugh, we understand each other well, and we have the same values. Pete, for example, can’t be bothered with family and I wish he made more effort to know my parents, who won’t be around for much longer; whereas I know John would connect well.

I am approaching retirement age and financial security has become more important to me than it once was. I hate to admit it, but combining forces with someone who has worked as hard as me is also appealing.

This is all churning round and round in my head, and I feel ridiculous. I don’t want to discuss it with anyone IRL, but would appreciate any input here. I hate feeling even a smidgen of disloyalty to Pete, because I adore him. It feels as though my priorities in life might be shifting somewhat, but maybe I’m just doing that “grass greener” thing and should just STFU.

In your answers about buying where you live now (where is it? FGS just name the country- we aren't going to come knocking on your door !) you talk all the time about 'we'.

I wonder why? It sounds as if it really was your decision, as it was your money and you were the one to push for it.

What is your H's home country?

@Hopingforabagofbuttons

John appreciates attractive women,( perves on attractive women ??) like that doesn’t have the potential in itself to be a problem (because you know those attractive women he’s appreciating are going to be returning the favour).
He’s not at all a perve. But he appreciates female beauty. Pete’s not interested in it, including whatever’s left of mine. And let’s face it, what’s left of mine is not going to last for ever, and I’m not going to play that game of chasing after youth. Back in the days when I assumed the reason there was no future for us was because I was too old, I once had fake eyelashes put on at the local hairdresser’s, all ready for the weekend, so that I could bowl him away. Pete thought it was hilarious and told me not to bullshit myself.

I would be incredibly offended by a friend probing about my financial security. It’s more likely he’s taking the opportunity to have a dig at Pete.
He’s always given me financial advice. He knows I need it! For example, there was me blithely saying like night that I could stash away enough for a pension over the next couple of years. Well, John has disabused me of that idea and sent me lots of info (again!). But he also pointed out that the actual £££ I’ll need to live on later on won’t involve massive rebuilding costs, plus Pete will be working, so that’s my pension right there. So I don't think he was having a dig at Pete.

@whatkindofdaughter

In your answers about buying where you live now (where is it? FGS just name the country- we aren't going to come knocking on your door !) you talk all the time about 'we'.

I wonder why? It sounds as if it really was your decision, as it was your money and you were the one to push for it.

What is your H's home country?

I'm not worried about people knocking on the door, it's just it's a bit... outing??

I started off talking about "I/me" because yes, the risks involved were all mine ... and then everyone piled on me for talking like his mother! 😎

Sometimes I feel the narrative you are telling is glossing over some truths, as it suits you to be glib, like what does Pete get out of being married to you. I notice a pattern of ending these types of questions with a one-liner hahaha comment, rather than actually being honest and digging a bit deeper. Do you think you deflect certain issues with humour?

Well, I'm typing as fast as I can and about to get to your questions about what he gets out of being married to me.

An easy life, obvs 🤣
^ There's your glib answer.

I'll do a proper one next...

I honestly don't feel I'm deflecting anything. Am I? If I am, just bat it back and I'll have another look.

Pete’s not interested in it, including whatever’s left of mine.

Given you have also said that neither of you are 'romantic' this does sound more and more like a marriage of convenience.

If there has never been a spark, (which you seem to feel for John) it really comes over as you having had a midlife crisis of sorts at 55-ish and Pete just happening to come along. He was happy to tag along with you because life with you gave him more than a life on his own with his involvement in illegal activities.

Sex isn't really happening much, so it looks as if you are companions, in a pretty much sexless marriage, where you are the dominant one and he falls in with whatever you want, as it's far nicer than he could have on his own.

If that suits you, that's great. But the overriding theme of your posts is 'she protests too much.'

So you still won't come clean about the country or P's home country.

Why?

Surely you don't think that would identify you? It would just make it all a bit easier to understand.

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

This thread is so interesting. And you sound fab OP!
Well thank you! I think I sound like a bit of a wanker.

You've had quite a strong negative reaction to any suggestions of therapy, and I wonder why that is?
I just don’t think it helps to pathologise things. Everything makes sense if you just think about it properly for long enough. I don’t think my self-esteem is low. The abusive first marriage is light years ago now, and so different from my life now that I can barely remember it. It did last nearly 20 years and made life rather difficult for me over at least the next decade or so, but then I did work through things and sorted myself out and then spent many years alone.

Equally the thought of having to be honest and talk about emotions with someone, and perhaps dwell on unpleasant memories, can be a frightening one.
I don’t mind. I am fortunate not to have your traumatic memories. I’m so sorry you went through all that.
I actually quite like being honest and talking about things! Especially about me, me, ME!

I’ve just read all your posts since the start of this thread. It sounds as though you are edging towards some basic self awareness. But Jesus Christ your finances! If it was me I’d be hyperventilating in panic. What is your retirement plan - you say you’ve got a full U.K. state pension, will you move back to the U.K. to claim it? That must be quite soon, if you’re around 60 now? So when you sell your current place are you going to buy in New Country? Wouldn’t it make more sense to buy something back in the U.K. which you can rent out and then retire to?

To me, the most accurate and insightful thing you’ve written on this thread is the following:

“I think the accumulated costs of rebuilding this place came as a bit of a shock and then I realised that my savings were pretty much gone, so that when John asked me how it was all looking, I felt a bit of a chump. Then, in my panic, I added 2 and 2 together and made about 16.”

When you started this thread it was all about your romantic options. But I don’t think that’s your actual dilemma at all. What’s actually bugging you is your dire financial situation and the stress of having to accumulate enough money to finance your retirement in a short space of time. In that context I cannot understand in the slightest why you are putting up with your husband not working. You BOTH need to be maximising your earning potential as much as possible, as soon as possible and for as long as possible. Surely you must feel some resentment towards him about the fact that he hasn’t contributed financially for several years, at just the point where you REALLY needed that extra money. And he doesn’t even seem bothered about it! you say he comes from a very poor background so presumably he’s just simply more used to it than you. But be in no doubt: his ability to tolerate a low income would leave you in a poor and miserable old age.

Your sudden attraction to John is about his perceived financial security. You are freaking out about how insecure you are and he seems the obvious answer. But he’s not the obvious answer, is he. It’s just displacement emotions - your feeling of frustration and worry about your finances and your husband’s failure to contribute to them and mitigate them by bringing some money in.

Start a new thread, make it about finances primarily. You don’t have the luxury of emotional self indulgence, your problems are too big for all this misplaced romantic wafting.

Sorry to go back to your previous posts, but you asked what you might be missing.

You had an abusive marriage, then you had this..

My next relationships after our split were with men who were more fun, but basically parasites

Not trying to stick the knife in, but this does sound very much like it's what you still have, although Pete is 'kinder' about it.

He is literally living of you, financially. He is fun- you say he makes you laugh all day. What's changed? :(

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat She can't claim her state pension till she is probably 67.

Oh and therapy / counselling is immensely valuable. Your resistance to trying it says a lot about how uncomfortable you are with your emotions.

Just to get some reality into the finances.
A lot of advisors (and it's in the press too) say that to have a reasonable retirement, where you can have a holiday, buy a car, enjoy life a bit, you need to have pensions totalling £25Kpa.
The state pension will give you around 9K at present. The shortfall comes from earnings (if someone carries on working) or a private pension.

If you want to draw down a pension (private) of even £10K a year, you need a pretty big lump in your pension pot. There is NO WAY you can accumulate that now at 60.

You talked about having stocks and shares. Are they going to provide you with £thousands for up to 30 years?

@whatkindofdaughter
I can answer these because we talk about this stuff and I know how he feels. (Did I mention he is the most honest person I've ever met?)

I'd just LOVE Pete to join this conversation. Things I'd ask are: How did you feel when you met Korma?
Surprised to meet someone so intelligent at last.

Why did you marry her?
Because she asked me to. (There were no visa issues. I had an old-fashioned view of wanting to be very clearly married if we were moving abroad; talking about my “boyfriend” just doesn’t convey the same weight, especially in a small village. I also wanted my parents to see me settled with a good man before they die.) Before her, I was in two very serious long-term relationships and both women asked me to marry them and I said no. This time, there was no doubt in my mind.

Does the age gap bother you?
No, except that she will probably die before me and then I will miss her.

Do you understand how Korma is worried about your future together because you haven't pulled your weight with earning and supporting yourselves as a couple.
Yes.

What are the most important things to you for the next year, 5 years, 20 years?
Making the best out of life.

What attracts you to Korma given she says you are not with her for her looks?
She is the most amazing woman in the world.

Are you willing to find 'proper ' work so that when she is 70 and older, you will be able to support her financially, like she is doing now for you?
Yes.

What are the most important things to you for the next year, 5 years, 20 years?
Making the best out of life.

What attracts you to Korma given she says you are not with her for her looks?
She is the most amazing woman in the world.

Sorry but these are not proper answers. It's waffle. Like the old Miss World competition where they all want to be 'rich and travel.'

Making the best out of life is not an answer. It needs detail. What would he want in a year? How would he achieve that?

I can't answer any more for now as I have to go out!

But will get back later. Thanks everyone

You say you think Pete is "golden" but do you, really?

What comes across here is that you don't respect him much.

For whatever reason, I wonder if that is something that it is hard for you to really know about.

Just a thought... how would Pete feel if he read this thread? I can't imagine he would be anything but devastated. If you are as close as you say, would he not be gutted that you are thinking of exchanging him for a man he has met once in all the time you have been together? Also, if John is such a close friend, why have you seen so little of him in the time you have been with Pete?

You have a very high opinion of your worth to men, and I wonder why this is , given you've been in an abusive marriage in the past?

Goodness..I just waded through your thread. I started reading when you first posted and have mainly only read your posts in catching up.

My observations for what it's worth

1. The positive way you talk about Pete far, far outweighs the negatives

1. John is a friend but you both enjoy having a friend with a frisson of possibility. This is fantasy for you both. Lots of us do this. I have a long term close male friend. I don't really find him attractive as a partner and vice versa but sometimes the closeness and values you share as friends when you lack some of those things in a partner can give rise to little flights of fancy...as you are exploring here!

1. John frankly is not an option. I know you think he is. I don't doubt you could both hop into bed and scratch that itch but John does not want a life with you as a partner. I think you'd scare him. I think the things you find attractive in him now (security) would actually make you feel criticized.

1. It isn't really about John. Your posts are mainly about you and your life and how wonderful your Pete is despite the flaws in your life together. There's a ton of positives about your relationship.

1. Throwing Pete away for a fantasy with John would not solve anything. Likely you'd end up with neither of them.

I agree with @SimonedeBeauvoirscat that your financial situation is pretty dire. And given Pete was attracted to you because he found someone 'so intelligent' it's weird that you have been an ostrich regarding your long term finances.

I also really believe that you would benefit from therapy. The way you dismiss suggests an aversion to exploring issues more deeply and putting yourself in a vulnerable place where a therapist would probe deeply.

One thing that strikes me and which a therapist would pick up on is your choice of men who were abusive or 'parasites'.

You have now married someone who is not abusive, but who is dependent on you (so you are top dog in some ways.)

But maybe they are a parasite even if you can't accept that. They live off you. They might make you laugh, but they don't think of you as a sex goddess (they have told you they aren't with you for your looks- charming!) and that sex is a rare event.

They do though get an 'orgasm' out of engaging with your brain.

Yet this man who is so intelligent, can't get his act together to help your joint finances. Why is that?

I feel as though he looks after me, and does a good job of it in every respect except the economic one, which currently hurts thanks to my poor decisions

But you are a couple. Your decisions should have been equal ones.
Unless you ride roughshod over him and he just lets you.

Looking after you means doing what is best for you both now and longer term. That means earning. It doesn't mean opting out and playing computer games all day.

I wish you could see that maybe in previous relationships, the bar was set so low that you accepted bad behaviour where men starved you of real love and caring.

Now that someone is throwing you a few crumbs, you lap it up and assure yourself they really do 'care'.

I'm going to leave your thread as I've said a lot! However, my overriding thoughts are that P is still a sponger and the life he has with you is far better than any he could create alone. And you seem a bit 'dizzy' making important decisions without thinking them through, carried away by emotions.

I had started to drift a little towards team pete. Then you said he had flat out told you he didnt find you beautiful. And then...

I assumed the reason there was no future for us was because I was too old, I once had fake eyelashes put on at the local hairdresser’s, all ready for the weekend, so that I could bowl him away. Pete thought it was hilarious and told me not to bullshit myself
Noooo!!! I'm over sensitive, but still. I wouldn't like this. Its hurtful and shows a surprising lack of empathy.

You say Pete has had two other women ask to marry him, which surprises me somewhat. You do hear of women doing the asking a lot these days, but it's still less common than the reverse, and he's had three of you ask.

How do you feel about heading back to the UK?
How do you feel about being with neither guy?

Not sure how you both can survive on the miserable UK pension OP. At age 60 you will be reliant on Pete bringing home the bacon no matter how much you earn now and begin to save for the future.

Hi OP

So your conclusions so far are (correct if I'm wrong):

The whole John thing was a silly reaction to your Financial Oh Shit moment, all fine now

You're very happy with Pete, and confident that move to Mysterious New Country II will allow him to work and generally things to be more balanced

You're quite worried about your financial future but believe that, with Pete working and some savings you have etc it will be ok.

You definitely don't want/need therapy, it's a waste of money when you can figure out your issues by yourself.

These are conclusions you seem to have reached a couple of days ago.

In that case, and I mean this kindly - why are you still posting?

It isn't really about John. Your posts are mainly about you and your life and how wonderful your Pete is despite the flaws in your life together. There's a ton of positives about your relationship.

5. Throwing Pete away for a fantasy with John would not solve anything. Likely you'd end up with neither of them.

So agree with this.

And also posters on here talk as if Pete is totally resistant to earning money. He isn't. And I know someone will say 'why hasn't he then'... but I think @KormasABitch has explained it well. Wrong place to live etc.

OP's in a catch -22 situation. She's uncomfortable about 'Pete' living off her (regardless of how charming etc he is). I think she knows in her heart of hearts she'll be thoroughly pissed off with this in a few years' time. However, as they are married he will get at least some of the house/money/possibly spousal maintenance? etc if they divorce. So the harsh reality of the situation is that she may be financially better off continuing in a marriage where she supports him.

@PingedThroughTheWall

Hi OP

So your conclusions so far are (correct if I'm wrong):

The whole John thing was a silly reaction to your Financial Oh Shit moment, all fine now

You're very happy with Pete, and confident that move to Mysterious New Country II will allow him to work and generally things to be more balanced

You're quite worried about your financial future but believe that, with Pete working and some savings you have etc it will be ok.

You definitely don't want/need therapy, it's a waste of money when you can figure out your issues by yourself.

These are conclusions you seem to have reached a couple of days ago.

In that case, and I mean this kindly - why are you still posting?

You've hit the nail on the head here, @PingedThroughTheWall.

I just got back from having my single-job COVID vaccine so I will do another post in a minute, trying to answer some of the queries, but not all of them or this could go on for ever.

I'm happy with my decision and feel no need to "sell" anyone what they're not buying. We could spend the rest of our lives on here batting things back and forth, and you would still not be happy with what I'm saying/doing! But that's OK!

I just feel a bit rude not answering people who have taken the trouble to post. But I'm going to address a few things that leap out at me, and then get on with enjoying my Saturday, as I hope you all are doing.