Yet Another Sexless Marriage Thread

[AnxiousAttacher]

Sorry to bring this up yet again, but I would really appreciate folks’ perspective

I’m a mid 50s man who’s been happily married for a quarter of a century, with two beautiful grown up girls, nice house, good career, all trimmings etc.

We have a great, very close relationship, but it has been sexless for years. Always a slightly needy attacher (my mother died when I was young) this has become a huge problem for me but makes absolutely no progress whatever I say or do.

Over the years I was always the more interested one, but about 7 years ago things really started to dry up, when my wife lost her father, and around the same time entered the peri menopause. The one time we tried two years ago, she felt some pain due to dryness, and then wasn’t happy using lube. She has gone to the GP who has recommended a cream to increase lubrication but she keeps simply putting it off and forgetting.

Some time ago I sort of gave up and rarely bother her about it. However it bothers me deeply. I’m not proud of this but, out of frustration I had a very short fling with another woman whilst on a work trip, which developed into kind of WhatsApp affair. During this period I tried to leave, but found the separation too painful. My wife forgave me for the fling , and we had excellent couples therapy two years ago, but now things have very much reverted to ‘normal’.

I love my wife and really don’t want to break up an amazing family, but I just don’t see the situation ever improving. My wife recognises the problem, but has a way of repeatedly saying she’s going to work on it and just never doing so. She says she wants to but simply has no desire. I feel that there’s more to it, that she feels vulnerable or afraid, but she absolutely shuts down the conversation if I try to mention this.

I sometimes think the best answer is to just have a series of meaningless but satisfying flings, but remain happily married, but I know that would lead to strong emotional attachments elsewhere.

I would be really grateful for your advice.the humorous title of this piece belies how serious and upsetting this is for me - it’s just my attempt at levity.

@justhisonce345

Your therapist didn't ask ask the challenges questions? I've seen quite a number of counsellors and the only ones who are any good are the ones who do ask the challenging the questions, the ones who really do challenge you. Your therapy seems to have done nothing more than put a temporary plaster over a gaping wound.

I also agree with Elspeth. Your wife just doesn't want to have sex with you ever again.

@justhisonce345 Your therapy seems to have done nothing more than put a temporary plaster over a gaping wound.

I think that’s a fair point. I’m feeling like I’m learning a lot from here and that my focus on sex is quite myopic and selfish. It’s a need but then she will have lots of needs…

@Waitrosedisaster

Refusing to have sex or unable to?

Many posters have come on here to say it probably wasn’t anything personal, it’s just what happens to an awful lot of women in menopause, let alone when dealing with a bereavement on top

Yet OP disregarded it at the time and disregarded it again when he chose to have an affair ‘out of frustration’ - all the actions of someone who put his own needs above those of the marriage and his wife.

He has also said he hurt his affair partner, suggesting he was less than honest with her about the situation and it wasn’t something she was able to enter into with full receipt of the facts

So please let’s not make out he is a victim in all this.

There is a strong chance his is conflating his need for sex with his general codependent traits, and therefore the rejection at not getting sex is indicative of unresolved issues with the self rather than an unscratched itch for orgasms

All this could have been worked on but the OP seems to also have some strange ideas on what constitutes good therapy, and is therefore unlikely to seek out something that requires challenging work

Re comments between @SW1amp and @Waitrosedisaster I partly agree with both of you. I think @SW1amp has got me somewhat askew as a sort of narcissistic congenital liar, but he/she’s right that I’m codependent and have attachment issues (as per the username). I had my own therapy separate from couples and it was really informative re attachment. But yes the problem went back years before the affair, and I really did try to understand what was going on…

The fact that she doesn’t use the cream says volumes. She either:
Has absolutely no j retest at all, whatsoever in having a sex life. Or,
Does not want a sex life with you.
I think you need a really really honest if perhaps excruciatingly personal conversation to ascertain whether it’s a mechanics or emotional issue. You need to know that before you can move on.

She will literally NEVER use that cream.

Ever.

@SW1amp There is a strong chance his is conflating his need for sex with his general codependent traits, and therefore the rejection at not getting sex is indicative of unresolved issues with the self rather than an unscratched itch for orgasms
This is insightful and I respect your thoughtfulness. I think I will go back to my therapist.

[quote SW1amp]@Waitrosedisaster

Refusing to have sex or unable to?

Many posters have come on here to say it probably wasn’t anything personal, it’s just what happens to an awful lot of women in menopause, let alone when dealing with a bereavement on top

Yet OP disregarded it at the time and disregarded it again when he chose to have an affair ‘out of frustration’ - all the actions of someone who put his own needs above those of the marriage and his wife.

He has also said he hurt his affair partner, suggesting he was less than honest with her about the situation and it wasn’t something she was able to enter into with full receipt of the facts

So please let’s not make out he is a victim in all this.

There is a strong chance his is conflating his need for sex with his general codependent traits, and therefore the rejection at not getting sex is indicative of unresolved issues with the self rather than an unscratched itch for orgasms

All this could have been worked on but the OP seems to also have some strange ideas on what constitutes good therapy, and is therefore unlikely to seek out something that requires challenging work[/quote]
You have a very strange outlook on life. Are you reading the OPs posts, or are you just on your own witch hunting agenda? I'm assuming you're one of those 'feminists' who thinks feminism is men get no rights and are all bastards.

The OP has quite clearly explained that his wife has been given options for improving the dryness etc and is not interested in trying them. So if she's 'unable' to have sex, that is her doing entirely.

Neither the OP nor his wife are coming off smelling of roses in this. Yes he shouldn't have had an affair (although I don't blame him in the slightest) but his wife can't continue to be selfish, which is what she is doing. I understand the menopause can affect sex, I really do, but the key factor is his wife isn't even trying to make it better. She has zero interest. You cannot fancy someone if you have zero interest in even attempting to make things better. That in itself is selfish.

The OPs wife clearly just prefers the simplicity of married life. As others have suggested, whether it be for the kids or financially, she has decided staying with you beats being single. She is not staying with you for love and passion.

You just need to decide if you want to live as 'best friends' or find someone who wants you too. I know which I would be doing.

Your wife needs to address her lack of sex, and what it’s doing to you.
Tho that doesn’t forgive you

To put it into context, it's like me developing a hatred of flying and someone giving me my own personal key to the plane.

Fuck off if I'm gonna consider using that key. I'm not gonna even touch it. I don't want to fly!

In all honesty l would not accept a sexless marriage. It’s one of the many reasons l divorced my first husband. It is different if that’s the way things were from the start and / or you both agreed to that set up

There is blame on both sides and lm not going to condone your affair. Being blunt your wife doesn’t seem to want to do anything to change the current set up, that says to me she wants things to stay the way they are. Your call if you want to accept that, you don’t have to

@ElspethFlashman

She will literally NEVER use that cream.

Ever.

Totally this. It’s the perfect get out clause.

There is a strong chance his is conflating his need for sex with his general codependent traits, and therefore the rejection at not getting sex is indicative of unresolved issues with the self rather than an unscratched itch for orgasms

I think this is a bit harsh. I think for most people the desire for sex is about a lot more than orgasms - we can all have an orgasm by ourselves after all. I think for most people the desire for sex , especially ongoing sex with one person, is about the desire for the whole intimacy and closeness that you only really get from sex. Its not just about the physical sensations, enjoyable as they are, but also the sharing of trust and vulnerability. Sex has its own special intimacy and I think most of us know that. Its normal to find it painful to have that end when you are still in a relationship.

I do think @SW1amp has raised some good points on this thread though.

The OP has quite clearly explained that his wife has been given options for improving the dryness etc and is not interested in trying them. So if she's 'unable' to have sex, that is her doing entirely

I just can't agree with this. The issue isn't the dryness - its that she has lost all desire to have sex. We are all bloody programmed by our biology and it sounds like hers has just closed that part of her down.
That happens to some women. That cream is for women who still have a desire for sex but vaginal atrophy is letting them down. Its not for women who just don't have any desire for sex.

The OPs wife clearly just prefers the simplicity of married life. As others have suggested, whether it be for the kids or financially, she has decided staying with you beats being single. She is not staying with you for love and passion See, you've just made this up. She might love OP dearly but just have no desire for sex. She may actually be revolted by the idea of sex. That happens to some women after menopause. She may feel shit about this. None of us know, not even apparently OP, what is going on with her feelings around this.

There was a thread recently on the Menopause board. There are women there who are upset about their disappeared sex drive. Some try treatments that just don't work for them. It is just wrong to blame the wife, as if she just tried hard enough she could regain enough libido.
That is just not based in the reality of some menopausal women.

@AnxiousAttacher - If your wife hasn’t been interested in sex for years, it’s very unlikely it’s going to change. The dynamics have changed and what is no longer important to your wife, is still important to you, you’re both not compatible anymore sexually. You either accept your sexless marriage, or you leave and you get that need met with someone else.

I know OP had a fling and it’s not standard practice within a marriage but if you were denied sex for years and someone gave you the opportunity to meet that need, how many people would honestly have the self-control to walk away? I know I wouldn’t and I’ve never cheated on my husband during our entire marriage.

At this point in your marriage and your lives it will probably not add to the sum of happiness for you to tear everything apart - home family, finances etc. You and your wife love each other and for the most part are happy together and will happily grow old together. However, I think you need to find a FWB and meet your sexual needs that way. It is not reasonable to expect you to just give that up for the rest of your life.

Love with no intimacy is of course still love . But more in common with friendship and the love you have for family members .

It may be enough for many in a relationship but clearly isn't for the OP .

justthisonce explains it well IMHO

ongoing sex with one person, is about the desire for the whole intimacy and closeness that you only really get from sex. Its not just about the physical sensations, enjoyable as they are, but also the sharing of trust and vulnerability.

It’s not going to improve so best to to bring it to an end if you value passion over a dull platonic relationship. Once kids are grown up their is nothing to keep you there. I would have been off long ago in a relationship like this. It’s dead in the water and no amount of magic cream is going to make that better.

The thing is no matter if you care about someone a lot , if mentally you are no longer interested - then it’s very very difficult to just conjour up the enjoyment/interest . I’ve lost interest sexually in all 3 long term relationships I’ve had after around 3 years. I don’t know why- it’s just how I am. I’m not a very touchy feeling person generally to be honest and yet am a warm friendly person socially. We are all different- there isn’t a right or wrong but obviously if your sexual wants no longer align then at some point there will be an issue. Coming up to 60 if I’m honest as someone said above, I do prefer a good book and a glass of wine so I realistically accept that for some men i wouldn’t be enough anymore. Still doesn’t mean I’m ok about affairs— I would rather someone be upfront and say directly and honestly ‘this isn’t enough for me’ .

Last year I was your wife, OP, peri-menopausal with absolutely zero libido and feeling awful about it. My DP would try to instigate sex and I'd fob him off and he'd feel really rejected. We generally have excellent communication but even so I found it incredibly hard to tell him how I was feeling, because I was only in my late 40s and I felt like a dried-up old maid and my worth as a woman diminished. My DP tried to be understanding and we muddled through until I was prescribed HRT earlier this year. Now I feel like myself again and we're enjoying reclaiming our intimacy. It's no exaggeration to say HRT has transformed me and our relationship.

However, had I found out my DP had an affair like you did while I was suffering with the effects of peri-menopause I would have been fucking devastated. You knew how bad your DW was feeling physically as well as mentally – because she was grieving her dad's death too – but her suffering still wasn't enough for you to keep it in your pants. Now you're frustrated she won't use the cream the GP prescribed but I don't blame her for not wanting to! You betrayed her when she was at her lowest ebb and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the reason she's still making excuses is because she feels pressured to have sex just to keep you faithful and is really resentful about it. Especially if she senses you're just biding your time until you can use the excuse of having a sexless marriage to have another affair, as you've intimated in your replies.

So instead of framing the no-sex issue as something she needs to work on, why don't you start really properly grovelling for what you did and work on regaining her trust and then, if you're really, really lucky, she might want a physical relationship again. But I don't blame her if she doesn't want to touch you again with a barge pole.

[quote Strawberriesandcream3]@AnxiousAttacher - If your wife hasn’t been interested in sex for years, it’s very unlikely it’s going to change. The dynamics have changed and what is no longer important to your wife, is still important to you, you’re both not compatible anymore sexually. You either accept your sexless marriage, or you leave and you get that need met with someone else.

I know OP had a fling and it’s not standard practice within a marriage but if you were denied sex for years and someone gave you the opportunity to meet that need, how many people would honestly have the self-control to walk away? I know I wouldn’t and I’ve never cheated on my husband during our entire marriage.[/quote]
100% this ( but of course I don’t have a husband… )

I’ll ask again - why didn’t you admit to your wife that you’d had full sex with your fling?

Was it because your assumed she’d leave?

Or that she’d make your life unbearable?

Or that you didn’t want to hurt her? (Not that an emotional affair is that much less hurtful.)

Or you thought she’d shut up shop sexually forever but you’d not be allowed to complain?

Oh and to the person going on about feminism etc and we expect men to just live with sexless lives— not always the case at all. Quite a lot of people I think would be happy to separate and let the other person move on and find someone who was sexually interested if we thought we could stay friends , didn’t think we would be shat on financially and emotionally and made out to be the bad guy /unstable — they just don’t like to admit it openly. I think it’s probably the reason you get splits like Bill and Melinda Gates etc— money’s not an issue and unlikely to go round feeling resentful or needing to belittle the other person and they have plenty of other stuff going on in life so their stability is not affected

Thankyou all, this has been a very revealing, and instructive, and indeed painful. @justhisonce345 really summarises it well how the need for sex is about intimacy not just orgasms. And @SW1amp maybe right about my co-dependant disorder, as my username says, I'm an anxious attacher. I think I need to seek more therapy. And I need to be more honest.

@ThatOtherPoster: More the last two than the first two...