Yet Another Sexless Marriage Thread

[AnxiousAttacher]

Sorry to bring this up yet again, but I would really appreciate folks’ perspective

I’m a mid 50s man who’s been happily married for a quarter of a century, with two beautiful grown up girls, nice house, good career, all trimmings etc.

We have a great, very close relationship, but it has been sexless for years. Always a slightly needy attacher (my mother died when I was young) this has become a huge problem for me but makes absolutely no progress whatever I say or do.

Over the years I was always the more interested one, but about 7 years ago things really started to dry up, when my wife lost her father, and around the same time entered the peri menopause. The one time we tried two years ago, she felt some pain due to dryness, and then wasn’t happy using lube. She has gone to the GP who has recommended a cream to increase lubrication but she keeps simply putting it off and forgetting.

Some time ago I sort of gave up and rarely bother her about it. However it bothers me deeply. I’m not proud of this but, out of frustration I had a very short fling with another woman whilst on a work trip, which developed into kind of WhatsApp affair. During this period I tried to leave, but found the separation too painful. My wife forgave me for the fling , and we had excellent couples therapy two years ago, but now things have very much reverted to ‘normal’.

I love my wife and really don’t want to break up an amazing family, but I just don’t see the situation ever improving. My wife recognises the problem, but has a way of repeatedly saying she’s going to work on it and just never doing so. She says she wants to but simply has no desire. I feel that there’s more to it, that she feels vulnerable or afraid, but she absolutely shuts down the conversation if I try to mention this.

I sometimes think the best answer is to just have a series of meaningless but satisfying flings, but remain happily married, but I know that would lead to strong emotional attachments elsewhere.

I would be really grateful for your advice.the humorous title of this piece belies how serious and upsetting this is for me - it’s just my attempt at levity.

[quote Crikeyalmighty]@SGBK4862. Sorry to derail the thread but does it help with itching/soreness too? Or wasn’t that an issue for you — the itching down below has driven me nuts for years and whilst ruling out other causes- GP never suggested this[/quote]
Try this .

www.yesyesyes.org

And is that because you lied to her because she you wanted to spare her from details?

Unfortunately @AnxiousAttacher whilst you can justify why you had a fling and know it was the wrong way to go about things— your wife, even though she may understand the ‘why’ probably no longer feels the same about you sexually/romantically- even if you decided to stay together. Somehow (regardless of the justification) for many people it snuffs the candle of ‘unconditional love ‘ out. Heads and hearts are messy things and she may well understand why you did what you did but it certainly is possible that if she didn’t feel that sexual towards you before (menopause in particular I found killed any interest for me) — she feels even less so now — that’s the price you pay. I know because I’ve been there and I feel exactly like your wife. I think you have to work on the assumption it’s unlikely to return and decide what you can/can’t live with— but be upfront eh about it— don’t sneak behind her back

That’s really unfair. In fact it’s quite troll like. I don’t gaslight. I’m a psychology post grad trained in coaching so I know my own processes, and I don’t play games.
You have made some valid points, but I don’t think you’re really trying to help, you’re going for a full on character assassination. Why?
Eeew. Is this how you speak to your wife if she disagrees with you? This post is just dripping with your own sense of superiority.
I was sympathetic at first but the barely disguised anger at posters who try to present how your wife might be feeling says a lot about your relationship. If you show anything of that kind of contempt to your wife when she challenges you, I'm not surprised she doesn't want sex - she probably is scared of you which is not at all erotic.

@SW1amp

Gosh, if she didn’t want to have sex with you before, she definitely won’t after knowing you cheated on her and had sex with another woman.

Good on her for finding it in herself to forgive you, but there is not a chance she will have forgotten, so it’s not a remote surprise she doesn’t want you anywhere near her sexually.

As I read on another thread recently ‘when you burn your arse, you have to sit on the blister’..!

You tried to see if the grass was greener, and you realised it wasn’t.
For gods sake have a brain cell and don’t make that mistake again

Exactly what I was going to say . Sadly I think that most relationships run their course over the years and while someone may not want to have sex with their spouse they easily find that desire with someone new. In my second marriage and it is all guns blazing unlike my first one.

@SW1amp

And is that because you lied to her because she you wanted to spare her from details?

Yes I admit that not telling the whole story was partly selfish. But I also thought that it would do more damage to an already damaged situation.

I think you're really minimising her situation tbh.

She hasn't wanted to have sex in SEVEN YEARS. She's actively avoiding any conversation about it. She doesn't want it. She can't abide the thought of it.

Sure, your affair compounded it, but it's a whole heap of things. A whole mountain of hormones and resentment and disinterest.

If she could live her whole marriage without touching you, she would. She loves you as a friend. A friend who betrayed her not that long ago, but who she's decided is more useful in her life than out of it. She doesn't want to lose her house and she needs help navigating the kids stuff.

Why the fuck would you want to have sex with anyone who thinks of you like that?

Jesus, it would literally be forcing her to lube up and lie there. The most you're hoping for here is once-monthly pity sex that doesn't make her want to scrub herself afterwards.

Do you honestly think it's going to be GOOD? Noooooo. I'm not being mean btw, I'm astonished. It's never going to be good. Not after 7 years. You're hoping for your penis penetrating her to be TOLERATED.

That's as good as it would ever get, buddy, make no mistake.

Because I think you genuinely don't get that? You think this cream will rekindle desire? Lol no, it just makes it not feel like she's being ripped by a tree branch, it's not going to actually make her want sex.

I think you're really mixed up about what's the outcome of your efforts here. It's not going to be anything other than grin and bear it for the next 20 years. You can't seriously want that for her one and only life? Not if you love her?

Well you got that spectacularly wrong!

I can’t believe your counsellor didn’t make it abundantly clear that the starting point of the process was the rebuilding of trust

So either you decided you knew better than the counsellor and your wife, or you saw a pretty awful counsellor but regarded them as good because they didn’t ask you any difficult questions

Mmm. Yes all fair, but we did work through this in couples therapy. And she doesn’t know it was a sexual affair. But I do realise it might have had a huge bearing on the current situation

Mmmm...just a bit 🙄

@QuentinBunbury

That’s really unfair. In fact it’s quite troll like. I don’t gaslight. I’m a psychology post grad trained in coaching so I know my own processes, and I don’t play games. You have made some valid points, but I don’t think you’re really trying to help, you’re going for a full on character assassination. Why? Eeew. Is this how you speak to your wife if she disagrees with you? This post is just dripping with your own sense of superiority. I was sympathetic at first but the barely disguised anger at posters who try to present how your wife might be feeling says a lot about your relationship. If you show anything of that kind of contempt to your wife when she challenges you, I'm not surprised she doesn't want sex - she probably is scared of you which is not at all erotic.

Mmmm. I’m sorry to @SW1amp if I was overly defensive. But it’s hard to take all this on, and deal with strong emotions from others.

Just on the subject of itchy menopausal muffs — itching is a symptom of vaginas dryness. It can feel itchy outside snd around the area, not just inside. Water-based lubes don’t help longterm and can even make it worse. (The water evaporates and dries the area even more.)

A vaginas dryness pessary will help, but a topical oestrogen pessary will help the most.

Vaginal, not vaginas

OP, why didn’t you tell your wife your affair had included full sex?

You said you had excellent couples therapy and ‘worked through everything’
But what exactly did you work through?

You didn’t work through the affair because you were lying about it
You didn’t work through your mismatched attitude towards sex because nothing changed
You didn’t work through how to communicate because you would sooner sign up to an anonymous internet site than talk to your wife, and admit she won’t talk to you
You didn’t work through how to prevent you straying again because you’re actively contemplating another affair (s)

So what about the therapy do you consider ‘excellent’? I can’t see any evidence of how it improved your situation
My gut feeling is it was ‘excellent’ in your eyes because your wife got told things like ‘a small fling shouldn’t define your decades long relationship’ and other things that helped you minimise what you did…

@Sparechange

You said you had excellent couples therapy and ‘worked through everything’ But what exactly did you work through?

You didn’t work through the affair because you were lying about it
You didn’t work through your mismatched attitude towards sex because nothing changed
You didn’t work through how to communicate because you would sooner sign up to an anonymous internet site than talk to your wife, and admit she won’t talk to you
You didn’t work through how to prevent you straying again because you’re actively contemplating another affair (s)

So what about the therapy do you consider ‘excellent’? I can’t see any evidence of how it improved your situation
My gut feeling is it was ‘excellent’ in your eyes because your wife got told things like ‘a small fling shouldn’t define your decades long relationship’ and other things that helped you minimise what you did…

I think that’s a fair shout actually. My wife also thought it was excellent btw, but it didn’t ask the more challenging questions. But no it also didn’t ‘legitimise my fling’ at all. I am deeply ashamed of that.

Mmmm. I’m sorry to @SW1amp if I was overly defensive. But it’s hard to take all this on, and deal with strong emotions from others

Maybe you are now realising what a passive woman your wife is or she is just using you to suit her own purposes . Of course there are strong emotions involved when someone cheats on another . For a psychology post grad you seem very naive in how this all works .

Your therapist didn't ask ask the challenges questions? I've seen quite a number of counsellors and the only ones who are any good are the ones who do ask the challenging the questions, the ones who really do challenge you. Your therapy seems to have done nothing more than put a temporary plaster over a gaping wound.

I also agree with Elspeth. Your wife just doesn't want to have sex with you ever again.

I think you’re very focused on your own perspective and desire for sex, rather than trying to empathise with your wife and the devastating effect your affair has had on trust within your relationship. By calling it “a fling” I think you’re really making light of your betrayal.

If I was struggling with dryness etc. I’d find the idea of being compared unfavourably with your AP soul destroying.

I agree that your therapy doesn’t seem to have tackled many of the underlying issues your relationship is struggling with.

I think some people just don’t get that if you stay with someone it doesn’t mean you then necessarily forgive or forget and in many cases it certainly can affect things like sex - if it was bad before then an affair isn’t going to make it better for most people in the long term. People may like you/care about you/love you at some level— doesn’t mean they suddenly feel up for sex after being shat on

So can you put your finger on what gave you the impression the therapy was ‘excellent’?

I’m also struggling to understand how someone claiming to be a psychology post grad was able to consider this good therapy and was also clear that lying was the best basis to rebuild trust.

I'm sorry you're getting such a hard time OP. I imagine the majority of people who are subjecting you to abuse are the wives of husband's who had an affair because they too completely took sex off the table. You'll probably find they are also the ones who post on here about how a good book and nice cup of tea is much better than having sex. Of course their partners don't mind never having sex again etc etc

At the end of the day, a person cannot completely control the sex life of another. You cannot say to someone "you will never have sex with anyone other than me again, but I will not be having sex with you". That is not fair. If your wife has decided she will not be having sex again, that is entirely her choice and she should not be pressured into doing so. She cannot however selfishly tell you that you can never have sex again either. That's not how life works.

Having an affair was wrong, although understandable. I think you need to decide if you want to stay celibate for the rest of your life or not. If you do, then stay with your wife and continue as you are. If you do not, then you need to leave and find someone else.

Unfortunately, it seems that many women (and some men) decide once they've had children, they don't need to partake in intimacy or sexual relations anymore. God forbid the husband has other ideas, he's usually a sexual deviant or a bastard if he dares say he doesn't want celibacy for the next 50 years.

There have been so many of these sexless marriage threads since the start of the pandemic.

My view, fwiw, is that this is a pretty much lost cause and you have to decide whether or not you want to stay in a sexless marriage.

I know you’re getting lambasted about the affair but your wife hasn’t been interested in sex for a long time before that. You’re obviously both getting something from the marriage though as you’re both still in it.

What was sex like before it stopped? I’m curious to know if your wife was the lower libido partner? I know so many ppl in sexless marriages, many happily so and that’s the issue really. Can you tolerate it?

I’m in the same situation as you and my DH isn’t interested in sex and hasn’t been for years. He refuses to talk about it or do anything about it. BUT when I look back over the course of our relationship there are loads of red flags and I feel a bit stupid that I didn’t see this coming. I’m now at the stage that I’m furious that he’s imposed celibacy on me. Also we married in church and I feel he’s broken his marriage vows to boot.

An other course of action would be for you to separate and live separately for a period of time to see if that creates any movement.

There a whole sub Reddit called r/dead bedrooms

@Sparechange I’m also struggling to understand how someone claiming to be a psychology post grad was able to consider this good therapy and was also clear that lying was the best basis to rebuild trust.

I think that’s pointed but fair. I’m beginning to realise that lying is the problem partly because I always know it’s there underneath the surface

@Waitrosedisaster
I would like to categorically state I am not the wife of someone who had an affair because sex was taken off the table

You don’t have to be in that situation to see what OP has done is incredibly wrong, stupid and hurtful on many levels

By his own admission, he forms poor attachments and he sounds quite codependent
With those traits, a superiority complex and a refusal to do proper work in therapy, there was always going to be a high likelihood of an affair regardless of what his wife did or didn’t do

[quote SW1amp]@Waitrosedisaster
I would like to categorically state I am not the wife of someone who had an affair because sex was taken off the table

You don’t have to be in that situation to see what OP has done is incredibly wrong, stupid and hurtful on many levels

By his own admission, he forms poor attachments and he sounds quite codependent
With those traits, a superiority complex and a refusal to do proper work in therapy, there was always going to be a high likelihood of an affair regardless of what his wife did or didn’t do[/quote]
The OP's wife didn't take sex off the table because of the affair. She was refusing to have sex with him for years before that. Years. The fact his wife still refuses to have sex with him is not a consequence of his affair, the evidence is quite clear on that one.

She doesn't want to have a sexual relationship with him. She hasn't had one for nearly a decade. Do you think OP should be a nice little good husband and just agree to never have sex again?