Was he calling me fat?

[AllRainedOut]

I posted earlier this year because I was pissed off that pretty much any man I've ever dated has commented negatively on my appearance at some point - either comments about my looks or body. Often hints or direct comments that I'm fat. I always end it within days. Never immediately because I don't want them to think they've upset me.

The general consensus was that I'm either just unlucky or I'm reading things into comments that aren't intended.

Well, it's happened again. So I wanted to run it by you lot for an impartial judgement.

I've been seeing a man I've known for around 18 months since January. He a friend of friends and we've loosely been in each other's social group for a few years but only really became friends 18 months ago.

I'm a size 12 and 5'4.

We went out on Saturday for the day. He was gigging in the evening so needed to get changed. I stayed as I was. I asked him which shirt he was changing into and said he didn't know, what did I think. So I suggested a shirt of his that he knows is my favourite.

The following conversation went like this (pretty much verbatim).

Him: "OK, I'll wear that one then as you like it "
Me: "I do. You always look nice but I really like you in that one "
Him: "OK... I feel I really ought to return the favour... oh I feel really bad saying this... That dress you're wearing really isn't the most flattering one you have"
Me: "Really? Oh well, that's tough really, it's the one I'm wearing and I don't have another with me."

Fwiw, the dress is casual - a black jersey maxi dress with a loose tie belt. I thought I looked quite nice in it and, more than that, the last time I wore it, someone asked me if I'd lost weight because it was "very slimming."

It possibly isn't the 'prettiest' dress I own, nor the most flattering but I don't think I looked so bad in it that it warranted a comment - especially as we were going out for the day/evening and would be spending it with his friends.

I didn't let it bother me as such but it was on my mind the whole day/evening 😕

This is typical of the sort of comment I get. It's rare that anyone has actually said directly, "You're fat," But these 'innocent' or helpful comments (eg "you look lovely but could stand to lose a couple of kilos") are ones I always get. Hence, I haven't had a relationship lasting more than a few months for 10 years!

If I'd asked him and he'd said that, I wouldn't mind at all because then I'd have been looking for an honest response. But I've never asked him, or anyone else, "How do I look?" because I don't see the point in inviting the negative comments.

What does it sound like to you?

If this was my partner, I would have said something along the lines of ‘Oi, what’s wrong with it?!’ in a playful way and gone from there. Equally, if it had offended me, I’d have told him so.

I didn't want to invite further criticism. I didn't want to respond in a lighthearted flppant way only for him to make it worse.

I could feel my defences rising so responded in the only way I could which was by giving no indication he'd upset me.

I don't see thenpoint in telling someone all the things they're not supposed to say to you. It doesn't stop them thinking it.

It hurts my head trying to make sense of it.

@AllRainedOut

If this was my partner, I would have said something along the lines of ‘Oi, what’s wrong with it?!’ in a playful way and gone from there. Equally, if it had offended me, I’d have told him so.

I didn't want to invite further criticism. I didn't want to respond in a lighthearted flppant way only for him to make it worse.

I could feel my defences rising so responded in the only way I could which was by giving no indication he'd upset me.

I don't see thenpoint in telling someone all the things they're not supposed to say to you. It doesn't stop them thinking it.

It hurts my head trying to make sense of it.

*@AllRainedOut

I don't see the point in telling someone all the things they're not supposed to say to you. It doesn't stop them thinking it.*

Gotta say, you are hardcore. Not only is he not allowed to say I don't like that dress/scarf/jumper, he's not allowed to think it either.

Ah this is hard to say because it depends on context, tone, etc too.

My bf has sometimes made jokey comments on outfits I've worn (he called me a mime artist when I wore striped top and high waisted trousers, and farm girl when I wore a denim pinafore). But he says it jokingly, i carry on wearing the outfit rolling my eyes at him, but occasionally I will consider what he's said. Only because he's my bf and I do trust that if he makes a comment on my outfit (which is very rare), he has thought about it. He's also very complimentary about most outfits so I know he isn't being mean or malicious. Also men do have different takes on female fashion so he cannot fathom my love of culottes as he thinks I'm swamping my lovely legs. But similarly I can't stand his hoodies and will tell him so.

However, I'd worry more that you automatically assume your bf is being malicious or calling you fat? Granted, it wasn't a particularly useful comment since you couldn't change, but surely he should be able to tell you if he thinks something is flattering or not? As I'm sure he wants you looking your best, as you would him. But only you can judge his tone and whether there are other indicators that make this comment a mean one, rather than just an opinion?

OP,
I'm really sorry that you seem to be being told by a lot of posters you are a bit sensitive.

I think he was fxxking rude.
I would NOT be one bit impressed with his need to be rude via his need to be "honest".

Cheeky, rude prick would be my reaction and warning bells would be going off loudly.

You didn't ask for his opinion.
You didn't ask for a comment.

He felt the need to volunteer to be unkind, rude and to try and put you down.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

BIG black mark against him.

I wouldn't be impressed and he would know it.

You didn't ask for his opinion.
You didn't ask for his rudeness.

Have a think OP.
You deserve better.

Yeah okay Billy 🙄

Going against the grain here, isn't he just trying to tell you he doesn't think that dress suits you?

Possibly not the most tactful but if DH thinks I look bad in something I would rather know!

I remember and commented on your first thread. I think the crux is you attract and waste your time on total twats. Also I'm struggling to accept this is how it went down- are you sure you didn't say something like "well aren't you going to return the favour" after your compliment to him? I cannot believe one woman has this string of men who make nasty comments on your appearance one after the other when most of us have never experienced it or experienced it rarely

Erm...... I'm not very good at relationship advice but I absolutely love the dress! Where did you get it? 🤣

You are on an absolute hiding to nowhere if you refuse to actually communicate with someone and discuss it if you are upset. That's not how relationships work.

From reading all your posts, I don't think he thinks you look fat in that dress, just that it doesn't show off your best features (or what he thinks are your best features). It's quite a modest dress - if you're top-heavy, it doesn't show any cleavage. If you're flat-chested, it doesn't show your shoulders or back. If you have nice legs, it hides them.

Men typically lack the vocabulary to express how they feel about women's fashion. I think in this case, the dress probably is fine, but it hides his favourite body part.

Whatever he meant, it was an unsolicited comment which makes it rude and inappropriate.

Jesus. Are people really this insecure / uptight with people they've been seeing for SIX MONTHS??

My DP of eight years turned up to our first date in a short sleeved dress shirt and he knew by the third date how much short sleeved dress shirts give me the ick. Short sleeved polo shirt - crack on. I just really don't find short sleeved dress shirts attractive or flattering on grown men - reminds me too much of school boys and bus drivers. Sometimes he still wears them and that's totally fine, but he knows I find it less attractive than his other clothes.

Same thing happened when I tried those very light denim mom jeans. He's a dark denim skinny man - preferably with a white tee. He also likes long hair so I'd seriously consider that before ever getting a pixie, just as he wouldn't intentionally grow a beard.

If I'm dressing FOR ME, then I can fuck what he thinks. If I'm dressing to look attractive TO HIM (which isn't a crime btw), I'll wear the dark denim skinnies.

If you were going to a gig (which it sounds like from the op) then I'd agree with him that regardless of weight or shape or size, a black jersey maxi-dress probably isn't the most flattering thing you could wear .

So he's tried to make his preferences clear in the kindest way possible (because you admit you never ask him). You're either dressing FOR YOU, in which case, why would you consider ending a six month relationship over it, or you do actually want to dress in a way he finds attractive, in which case, explain you don't have a change this time but actually ask the man what he likes??

@arcof

I remember and commented on your first thread. I think the crux is you attract and waste your time on total twats. Also I'm struggling to accept this is how it went down- are you sure you didn't say something like "well aren't you going to return the favour" after your compliment to him? I cannot believe one woman has this string of men who make nasty comments on your appearance one after the other when most of us have never experienced it or experienced it rarely

It's pretty much verbatim.

I didn't ask him if he was going to return the favour because I've never asked him or anyone what they think or fish for compliments. I just don't. The conversation was as brief as I've put here.

It didn't even occur to me that he might compliment me tbh. When he said he wanted to return the favour, I just looked at him. I don't really know what I expected him to say. I suppose, in retrospect, if someone had said something nice to me and I said I wanted to return the favour, I'd say something nice to them too. I wouldn't be nasty to them.

I have a pair of boots that he jokingly refers to as 'children's boots' that I found on the playground. I know that's a joke. He doesn't like those boots. But everything about the way he said this was totally different. He wasn't joking.

If he said I look nice in stuff then that would be different.

I don't think he finds me attractive and I think he is.embarrassed to be seen with me. That's the crux of it.

@itsaccrualworld

From reading all your posts, I don't think he thinks you look fat in that dress, just that it doesn't show off your best features (or what he thinks are your best features). It's quite a modest dress - if you're top-heavy, it doesn't show any cleavage. If you're flat-chested, it doesn't show your shoulders or back. If you have nice legs, it hides them.

Men typically lack the vocabulary to express how they feel about women's fashion. I think in this case, the dress probably is fine, but it hides his favourite body part.

I wouldn't know tbh.

He hasn't ever said, "I like it when you wear X" or similar either. I've got absolutely no idea what these.more flattering dresses are that I've got because he never exresses an opinion on anything I wear or me. Other than the boots he doesn't like and the dress I'm less attractive than usual in, he hasn't commented on anything. Oh, he likes a pair of my shoes.

He has occasionally offered a lukewarm, "You look nice".

We went put a few weeks ago when restrictions lifted a little. It felt really strange to be going out. I said he looked and smelled really good. He said thank you and nothing else. That's fine. I don't expect him to say I look nice if he doesn't think I do. But that's why I wouldn't never ask him what he thought because I wouldn't want to invite a criticism.

I'm not really cross with him.tbh. I'm sad and cross with myself.

When I was a child/teenager, mum used to tell me that i was unattractive. I have no idea what she thought I looked nice in because it was just constant criticism. But I was more resilient back then. It upset me but i just used to think, "so what?" And assumed that one day someone would seee differently. I thought I was reasonably pretty back then and just put it down to her being cruel.

There was an occasion when she'd invited me out to her boyfriend's sister's birthday bbq when I was about 20 and then refused to take me at the last minute because she didn't like what I was wearing. It was perfectly suitable for the occasion she was just embarrassed to he seen with me.

Then I had my first and only ltr and, for the first couple of years, he always had an excuse to not introduce me to his friends and always walked 6 feet in front of me so that people wouldn't automatically realise we were together. I didn't have the benefit of MN then and didn't see this as a red flag.

I more recently dated someone who was very bothered when his daughter put a photo of us together on social media because he didn't want people to see him with me. His ex wife and previous gf had both been personal trainers and very slim and fit.

I wouldn't have minded of he'd said he didn't like the dress or preferred me in something specific or even what he said if I'd asked him.how I looked. But I didn't.

Anyway, I think hisncommentnwas supposed to make entry harder but it just makes me feel the opposite.

He knows other men have been very critical of my appearance. I think that's why he felt really bad about saying it because he knew he was just doing the same.

OP you seem to have a resl chip on your shoulder about how you look. What are you doing about that then? Working out? Investing in your looks? I mean it just seeps off your posts and im sure people IRL notice it too

He knows other men have been very critical of my appearance. I think that's why he felt really bad about saying it because he knew he was just doing the same.

So you have been honest with him about your hang-ups around this? In the rest of the thread it seems you don’t talk about this aspect of your life/past.

I don't think he finds me attractive and I think he is.embarrassed to be seen with me. That's the crux of it

Dump him then. Don’t stay with a guy you feel like this about. Dump him but then you need to work on your self-esteem and whatever it is about your appearance you still (despite extensive therapy) clearly believe is deficient.

The way you describe yourself is odd - it’s as if you simultaneously believe your appearance both is and is not important. Certainly you attribute your appearance as the cause of when things happen - like you think the ex who didn’t want the photo on FB was because his former partners were slim and you’re not etc.

I don’t know why you assume he doesn’t think you’re attractive and is embarrassed to be seem with you. He wouldn’t be with you if there was no attraction. You know his friends, you seem to go out regularly. You’re not some secret FWB arrangement.

You have undoubtedly had shit relationships and your primary relationship with your overly critical mother is part of why - you weren’t ‘more resilient’ then, that’s not it, it’s because every time that dynamic has played out over and over (especially in your LTR that sounds particularly terrible) it’s reinforced your entrenched beliefs about your inherent worth and its link to your appearance.

If I were you I’d go back to therapy to work specifically on this issue. It’s really impossible to tell if this bloke is just an innocent bystander to your issues or if you’ve unconsciously picked another bloke who’s fundamentally wrong for you.

@Sampafie

OP you seem to have a resl chip on your shoulder about how you look. What are you doing about that then? Working out? Investing in your looks? I mean it just seeps off your posts and im sure people IRL notice it too

How am I supposed to invest in them?

I eat healthily and clean, I go to the gym when I can, I have my hair cut and coloured every few weeks, I dress for my figure in clothes that do flatter me. I don't use anything artifical on my skin so use weekly Turmeric, yoghurt and honey face masks and only water and coconut oil the rest of the time. I wouldn't have cosmetic surgery or procedures because I don't think they are/should be necessary.

The way you describe yourself is odd - it’s as if you simultaneously believe your appearance both is and is not important.

I can see that and I think you're right.

I think I look OK. I think I'm reasonably attractive, I have good skin and I think my figure is OK. Not great but OK.

I used to be very self conscious but I'm less so now.

I don't really think about it much unless I'm in a relationship though because no one other than the men I'm dating really sees fit to comment negatively. It's happened a few times but not often.

I told him what had happened in the past because we were having a conversation once about 'beauty ideals' and I just mentioned it. I haven't mentioned it otherwise. Although he knows it was a big issue with my mother.

I just keep reading stuff about its what's on the inside that counts and confidence is attractive but it's never applied to me.

A few years ago, I lost weight, looked great and felt really confident. The criticisms became worse. Not in terms of what was said but the frequency and just the sense of entitlement that men seemed to feel to be able to make the comments.

I put a stone back on and now strangers don't really comment negatively. Just boyfriends.

I think the PP meant what are you doing about your self esteem not how you actually look

I don't think he finds me attractive and I think he is.embarrassed to be seen with me. That's the crux of it.

The crux is that your DM has done a number on you big time & destroyed your confidence in your appearance. You really need to seek counselling to address that or you are always going to be that way with any man. You are also very vulnerable to love bombing & Narc abuse.

Okay we can differ a bit shape wise, but unlikely much, but I am pretty much exactly the same size & shape as you & I have never felt I was fat or worried what others thought of my appearance or dress sense. That's clearly all in your head thanks to your DM & you really need to address it.

I was only ever valued for my looks as a kid, never my intelligence, whilst my brother was openly praised & boasted about for being "such a clever boy" all of the time for very minimal things. So much so that I only recently found out that my dad had no clue that I went to grammar school & DB didn't get in so we moved so he wouldn't have to go to the other school

Consequently I spent a lot of years feeling a fraud when I was doing exceptionally well in my chosen career, always feeling praise was really for someone else, not me etc & don't get me started on relationships pre counselling, my radar for arseholes was shot to ribbons & I accepted second best time & again because that's what I was raised with.

Those kind of family dynamics can destroy you & ruin your life if yiu let it.

You are letting it define you.

Sort it out or you will never be happier & your neediness for approval of your looks is going to destroy every relationship until you sort it out.

My DH openly dislikes & will take the Mickey out of some things I wear, do I give a flying fig. NO, I'll wear them anyway & he knows it because I like it. Clearly not such a big deal to him as we are still happily married after over 20 years & he has said many times how he loves that I don't need his approval for anything & I'm my own woman

Please seek counselling OP & learn how to talk to your DP about stuff like this too. You will be so much happier if you dump the childhood baggage

The crux is that your DM has done a number on you big time & destroyed your confidence in your appearance. You really need to seek counselling to address that or you are always going to be that way with any man. You are also very vulnerable to love bombing & Narc abuse

Yes she did. But the fact others have also commented similarly is what really hurts.

I've had counselling and therapy for it since I was 18. It works - which is why I feel OK normally but as soon as I date someone, the fears come back and the comments start.

I understand what you're saying about being vulnerable to love bombing amd I see why you're saying it but it's not true. It has happened a couple of times and I've sacked them off pretty quickly too! I find it very ott and suffocating.

I just want someone to find me attractive, fancy me and, potentially, fall in love with me. I could cope with someone saying, "You look really nice in that," but if someone told me I was beautiful or that they loved me by the third date it would put me right off them!

I can cope with no compliments. That doesn't bother me. It's the negativity and criticisms that come instead that are the problem.

I think he just commented clumisly.

I can cope with no compliments. That doesn't bother me. It's the negativity and criticisms that come instead that are the problem.

But the incident you describe here is not criticism or insults, it's just normal conversation, especially as you were in the process of choosing a shirt for your DP, so he probably felt a bit more comfortable mentioning your dress. Fact is, he doesn't have to like your dress, he can actively dislike it & say so, but you don't have to listen & act on that, as it's his opinion not yours. That's what's wrong here, not his opinion, but your attitude to his opinion

I just want someone to find me attractive, fancy me and, potentially, fall in love with me.

Nothing this guy said about your dress indicates he doesn't find you attractive. It's great that you have such firm boundaries when it comes to shitty men, but they're in overdrive here.

If you want a fighting chance of ever having a loving relationship you have to learn to speak up and communicate when you find something hurtful - you can love someone enormously yet still say and do clumsy stupid things.