Ds(11) in a manipulative relationship. What to do?

[HandsInHair]

My DS is 11 and skipped a year, meaning his classmates are mostly 12.
He is a sensitive and introverted boy. His dad and I recently got divorced and I moved out of the family home with his dsisters.
Since the beginning of may he has had a friendship with a girl in class that has very quickly turned very intense. They don't speak in person, it is all via text messages.
In theory, no problem, very cute. What is a problem is the intensity and the manipulation. All of a sudden my son is hurting himself, talking about suicide, not eating and wearing big jumpers in a heatwave.
I read their message conversation and it reads as if all thiese things are in reaction to her.
She is hurting herself, so he does too. She won't eat, so he doesn't either, etc. He packages it as if he are tying to 'help' her. As in, he won't eat until she does..
I know that there have been other incidents with other kids in their class. I contacted the mum of another boy who was best friends with her until she suddenly stopped and started a message group to bully the boy.
She is only a child so I am pretty sure she is not purposely trying to be manipulative, but I do believe she is troubled. And it is admirable my DS wants to help her. The trouble is thay he is also learning these manipulative behaviours. And he is hurting himself!

I am not sure what to do now. The school was involved in the previous incident(s). Do I involve them again? Do I invite her around?
I don't think forbidding contact is the way to go...

I have already called her parents to alert them to the suicide speak. In her messages she also says her father hurts her and she doesn't feel comfotable with him sexually. I have no idea what to do with that information.

Help me wise mumsnetters!!

I think your psychologist is wrong. Teenagers yes, the phone thing is massively important and it isn't recommended for phones to be taken. But children? Of course they need boundaries. It isn't a punishment, it is a necessary means of protection. He will likely feel greatly relieved.

They can be very sweet to each other with lots of ‘I love you’s’ and telling each other they are perfect.

This is way way too intense. These two young children, not even teenagers are talking about feelings they don’t understand and cannot yet process. It totally is not normal to be telling the other they are perfect.

Expecting to achieve perfection should really be ringing alarm bells for you. What about when things aren’t perfect? What about the times where things go wrong?

Love and hate are really close and they’re turning on themselves whenever perfection isn’t achieved. You should be really worried about this. The perfection and loving one another is one step toward a suicide pact. I don’t understand why you think this is any way sweet.

I also am struggling to reconcile that you’re talking about such young children.

I suggest you also read 2bazookas comments on this phrase.

And again Please report this to the police and social services. You do not how diligent the school will be in following up the abuse.

@TheTuesdayPringle

I think your psychologist is wrong. Teenagers yes, the phone thing is massively important and it isn't recommended for phones to be taken. But children? Of course they need boundaries. It isn't a punishment, it is a necessary means of protection. He will likely feel greatly relieved.

Indeed. The psychologist’s argument that he will find a way to contact her doesn’t really hold water. It’s easy enough to monitor screen use including asking parents when he’s on play dates not to allow access. He’s 11.

@TheTuesdayPringle

I think your psychologist is wrong. Teenagers yes, the phone thing is massively important and it isn't recommended for phones to be taken. But children? Of course they need boundaries. It isn't a punishment, it is a necessary means of protection. He will likely feel greatly relieved.

This. It isn't a punishment, it's protection. You're not there to be your sons friend, you have to do what you need to do to help him whether he likes it or not

Speak to the Head Teacher then escalate to the police, this girl could be crying for help, it at least needs to be looked into. If she is being abused she needs help to escape, and if not she needs to be held accountable for her false allegations. I'd have a frank discussion with your DS asap. What an awful situation for you.

How is DS doing @HandsInHair?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

How is DS doing *@HandsInHair*?

He is doing well. He has had a friend after school and they are happily playing.

I don't think the reporting has reached the parents yet as they have invited my DS over on sunday apparently. They also clearly don't monitor their DD's messages.

Obviously he isn't going and as a bonus his dad has agreed to spend a whole day with him.

I have to admit that seriously limitting his acces to the phone has had a possitive effect on him. I am sticking to this plan for now. Removing the phone is still an option if it is needed.

At some point her parents will be made aware of what she has claimed. I have no idea what the effect of that will be.

At least they break up for the summer next week.

I have to admit that seriously limitting his acces to the phone has had a possitive effect on him. I am sticking to this plan for now. Removing the phone is still an option if it is needed.

That's good to hear. Sometimes kids desperately need big decisions and responsibilities (like how to tackle being a confidante to someone going through trauma) to be taken out of their hands and feel a huge relief when grown ups play 'bad cop' and allow them to drop the rope. It's a loving thing to do, protecting him from emotions that are simply too big for him at just eleven years old.

The summer break is a good sort of circuit breaker for things like this as he'll no longer be drawn back in during school hours.

Hopefully the school act appropriately and that poor little girl gets support whatever is going on, it sounds like she really needs some grown ups to step in and scoop her up.

That's great to hear. I think sometimes kids are relieved when you remove their tech. They actually love the opportunity to be kids again. And that's before we even get started on the fact that your son's phone is the conduit for such negativity coming into his house.

Did I read right that you have informed school regarding her disclosure of abuse but you haven't told them that she is self harming and your son is too?

You need to give all the professionals all the information.

You haven't removed his phone from the advice of psychologist. I'm not a psychologist but know how children are influenced by their peers. I am also know of children forming groups where they speak and discuss self harm. My concern would be the girl may up the ante and your son and her may do something with more serious concequences than not eating.

You're the parent and you must parent.

I spoke to the school about the whole situation.

The girls's DF called me this evening. Apparently the person I reported to at the school took the girl apart for a conversation about the messages.
The girl said that none of the things she said in the message was true. Not the abuse, not the self-harm, not the panick attacks or the not-eating.

I really hope for this girl that it is indeed not true and that it is an extreme case of attention seeking. Otherwise the school has handled it really badly.

The parents are keeping her off electronics as much as possible for the next few weeks.

I have had a talk with DS and told him what has happened. I think he feels very confused at the moment. My heart really bleeds for him. He is a truly gorgeous person and I so want him to be happy and secure in his frienships. I will be inviting lots of his real friends around the coming weeks.

Have I got that right, the school told the father about the allegations? If so that school is bang out of order. It should have been a police matter, certainly not told her potential abuser!!

This is bs.

the school told the father about the allegations?

Is that what schools do where you live Op? Hear disclosures/allegations from children and then discuss these with the person who is the alleged abuser?
Really ??

I cant believe a school would tell the Father the daughter had made allegations against him. Do you not have a version of social services or child protection where you are?

I find it odd that the father is the one who keeps contacting you.
Have you ever spoken to the mother?

You didn't say what country you're in but most places it is standard for the school to contact social services or the police with regards to abuse.

So the school disclosed the alleged abuse to the father. Terrible abuse of power. This is why we urged and urged you to contact the police and social services. Seems your child will be ok. Whereas this girl has now potentially been cut off from her lifeline.

What's there to figure out, tell the head teacher, they will deal with it from there

@nimbuscloud

the school told the father about the allegations?

Is that what schools do where you live Op? Hear disclosures/allegations from children and then discuss these with the person who is the alleged abuser?
Really ??

......and not only that, they apparently also told the father that it was OP that passed the allegations to the school and then the girls dad and OP had a nice friendly chat and all is fine. Just a silly misunderstanding 🙄🤦🏽‍♀️

And of course the dad is going to monitor her use of electronics from now on. Of course it won't be that he's worried about her telling anyone else about the alleged abuse, he's just all of a sudden interested in her screen time. All one big coincidence

Safeguarding
Safeguarding
Safeguarding

Regardless of what you think of this kid’s behaviour and it’s impact on your DS, an allegation of sexual abuse has been made and it needs reporting. You shouldn’t be sharing this with other parents in your circle. Poor kid. You need to contact the school’s safeguarding lead immediately and STFU about this poor kid’s mental health to your mates.

I’m not normally this strongly worded on here but when it comes to safeguarding children I’m afraid there’s no middle ground. Abuse is allowed to continue with impunity when adults stand by and pathologise traumatised children as badly behaved or manipulated.

Regardless of whether this kid is or isn’t being abused, she needs help. Do the right thing here and then you also help your DS with boundaries with the texts and talk to him about how he can be a good friend without copying the behaviour.

The girls's DF called me this evening. Apparently the person I reported to at the school took the girl apart for a conversation about the messages.
The girl said that none of the things she said in the message was true. Not the abuse, not the self-harm, not the panick attacks or the not-eating

The school HAS handled it badly, if they told her father, the alleged abuser, about this allegation. This is not the procedure that should be followed. They should follow a set procedure for dealing with ANY allegations of abuse, which should be set out in the school’s safeguarding policy.

Many abused children when confronted by an adult in authority then deny things because they are scared of the consequences. If the school aren’t handling it, then it’s children’s services or the police.

@showmethegin

Have I got that right, the school told the father about the allegations? If so that school is bang out of order. It should have been a police matter, certainly not told her potential abuser!!

Tbh, I am not sure exactly what the school told him.

The care teacher I spoke to told me she would involve the headmaster and they would take it from there.

In my country there is no central child protection services. There is an organisation that supports schoolchildren with all kinds of things. The way to them is via the school.

I am not just going to involve the police. If she is lying, then surely this being persued at the level of police would not exactly help her.
If she isn't lying, then it seems she isn't prepared to tell and adult now. She has a lot of support at school, she is seeing a paychologist, she has access to doctors. If she isn't telling any adult, even when giving an opening, why would she be inclined to tell the police?

I will call the school tomorrow and ask what has happened and who has been contacted.

@HandsInHair

I spoke to the school about the whole situation.

The girls's DF called me this evening. Apparently the person I reported to at the school took the girl apart for a conversation about the messages.
The girl said that none of the things she said in the message was true. Not the abuse, not the self-harm, not the panick attacks or the not-eating.

I really hope for this girl that it is indeed not true and that it is an extreme case of attention seeking. Otherwise the school has handled it really badly.

The parents are keeping her off electronics as much as possible for the next few weeks.

I have had a talk with DS and told him what has happened. I think he feels very confused at the moment. My heart really bleeds for him. He is a truly gorgeous person and I so want him to be happy and secure in his frienships. I will be inviting lots of his real friends around the coming weeks.

When a child of teenager lies about abuse, self harm, not eating etc in this way, often there IS something very bad going on. They might have been abused by someone else. That abuse might be continuing. "Extreme" cases of attention-seeking flag up that something is badly wrong! You are still suggesting that this girl is manipulative and not to be trusted. Do you think happy and balanced teenagers do all this? They don't.

From what you say here, it sounds like this girl withdrew these allegations out of fear once the person at school "took her apart." A lot of us in this situation, feeling vulnerable anyway and then "taken apart", would do the same.

You are still suggesting that this girl is manipulative and not to be trusted

Are you saying thay people who have been abused can't be manupulayive and are always to be trusted?

I am not saying she is definetly lying. I am saying thay me barging in and reporting to the police when the professionals are already involved is not something I that will help her now.

Like I said, I will call the school.

Also, she has not said in the message that her father is abusing her. She said that she doesn't feel comfortable around him.