Ds(11) in a manipulative relationship. What to do?

[HandsInHair]

My DS is 11 and skipped a year, meaning his classmates are mostly 12.
He is a sensitive and introverted boy. His dad and I recently got divorced and I moved out of the family home with his dsisters.
Since the beginning of may he has had a friendship with a girl in class that has very quickly turned very intense. They don't speak in person, it is all via text messages.
In theory, no problem, very cute. What is a problem is the intensity and the manipulation. All of a sudden my son is hurting himself, talking about suicide, not eating and wearing big jumpers in a heatwave.
I read their message conversation and it reads as if all thiese things are in reaction to her.
She is hurting herself, so he does too. She won't eat, so he doesn't either, etc. He packages it as if he are tying to 'help' her. As in, he won't eat until she does..
I know that there have been other incidents with other kids in their class. I contacted the mum of another boy who was best friends with her until she suddenly stopped and started a message group to bully the boy.
She is only a child so I am pretty sure she is not purposely trying to be manipulative, but I do believe she is troubled. And it is admirable my DS wants to help her. The trouble is thay he is also learning these manipulative behaviours. And he is hurting himself!

I am not sure what to do now. The school was involved in the previous incident(s). Do I involve them again? Do I invite her around?
I don't think forbidding contact is the way to go...

I have already called her parents to alert them to the suicide speak. In her messages she also says her father hurts her and she doesn't feel comfotable with him sexually. I have no idea what to do with that information.

Help me wise mumsnetters!!

Thanks updown. I have contacted the school in the meanwhile.

I am still hesitant about banning contact as it all feels very delicate. I will continue to talk to him as much as I can. He is not really opening up to me as it is and I am afraid he will totally shut down if I don't handle this well.

Getting support for him has been really hard. He is seeing someone tomorrow but I am not sure if it will help him.

Thank you all for your replies. It has helped kick me into action. The best I can do for my DS is be there for him as much as possible. And like you have made clear, tough love is also love.

I have an 11 year old daughter whose phone would be taken away if it was the main point of contact with someone who is wrecking their mental health in this way.

What on earth are you thinking just allowing this unfiltered stuff to enter his home and his bedroom, when you can see it's dangerous?

I know you're not in the UK, but you say he's a year higher in school and is going to the secondary school in September, as will his girlfriend.

Do they change schools at 12 there?

I would ask the new school to make sure he doesn't share any classes with her, to give him the chance to make new friends.

And of course report all of this - everything - to the school.

OP, I have to say it looks like you are at the beginning of a very tough experience. There is lots of advice, and from experience, your best options are the professionals. The school, the police, social services and psych, straight away, for your child.

We have a DC who was friends with a sexually-abused child. At the time, we knew nothing about this until our child, like yours, started displaying worrisome symptoms. We couldn't quite grasp or believe what was happening so we waited, thinking we would see whether it was a phase or something more sinister. I wish now we had gone straight to the doctor and police, because we then found out our DC was also being sexually abused by this child.

Like you, we are not in the UK and were unfamiliar with the system. We ended up having to fight for our child, as well as the child who was being abused, and we were seen as parents who had imagined or made up things, which lost us nearly all of our friends and our reputation in our community. And we would do the same thing again, regardless of the personal cost, because who else would fight for our child?

DC is just finishing their 3rd year of therapy and are doing really well. Their symptoms disappeared after a few months, and my DH said we are now able to sit and talk with DC easily about even the most challenging topics.

Please, even when it gets tough, and it most likely will, remember, you are the only one who will fight for your child. You may also be the only adult who will also help this girl.

All the very very best, OP.

I am still hesitant about banning contact as it all feels very delicate.

Well yes it's very delicate, thanks in part to you having let it go on so long despite the details you do know.

He is ELEVEN. I thought I couldn't live without Backstreet Boys or Britney at that age, that moving schools would 'literally' kill me etc. Because I didn't have the benefit of maturity and experience to know otherwise.

Hence why my parents were responsible for making adult decisions rather than me.

Teleskop - I am sorry you and your DC have had to experience this. Thank you also for understanding.
Would it be ok if I PM you?

Of course they're claiming they can't live without each other, they're wildly overwrought 11 years old.

You need to put a stop to this!

Bloody hell. I'm actually quite angry reading this. Trust me, I know that having a child with mental health issues is like walking on eggshells, but protecting them has to come first surely.

Hi OP. Sure

He's 11. Take his phone and tell him he can have it back when he's improved his behaviour. You don't even have to do it as a punishment, just say you don't like how the phone is affecting him whether he thinks it is or it isn't is beside the point and when you decide he's in a better place then give it back. Worked for both my two. The child suicide rate since they've had access to smart phones and social media is horrific... you've got to stop this as his parent

And no definitely do not invite her round... you don't want them getting any closer surely

But definitely speak to safeguarding at school and show them those messages about suicide and her father.

However definitely stop your son having contact with her. He's just 11

@HandsInHair

I tried to contact her mum but in the end the dad called me. So I mentioned the selfharming and suicide message, not the ones where she says he abuses her. He replied that she has had issues in the past and they would get help for her. I know that she has been to see her psycologist since then.

I have contacted the school about the selfharming but not about their relationship. I guess I wanted to see how the intervention with the parents panned out. I also wanted to monitor if messages about her dad were repeated. And the hurting ones are.

I'll contact the school tomorrow. They only have a week of primary school left before the go to secondary. She is going to the same secondary school as DS next year.

I feel like I want to keep him away from her. Seeing the manipulation I am not sure I 100% believe that what she is saying about her dad is true. But if it is, I can't not tell anyone. If it isn't though... that family will go through hell if I talk to the school.
I was thinking of trying to contact the mother again and insisting on talking to her..

No you need to contact the school 100% that girl may or may not be lying but you can't risk and mum could be a wet blanket and brush it under the carpet

@HandsInHair

Yes he does. His dad lives abroad though so he has the phone mainly to stay in contact with him.

I have thought about taking his phone off him but it feels like I would be just punishing him. And he is also clearly vulnerable at the moment. I have reduced his screentime dramatically and changed the screentime passcode (he had hacked it).

It's not punishing him at all. Yes he will think that but ffs you're his protector and surely you must see that his mental health is massively declining. I can't believe you would even consider letting him keep his phone tbh you really need to find the minerals and step up as a parent

Trust me, protecting them is what I am trying to do.

I apreciate your reactions. I am going to see if I can get some professional advice in how to best handle the contact between them.

To be honest, I am still not convinced taking away the phone or blocking the contact is the best way forward. there are so many ways for them to be in touch. At least now I can monitor it. If they start communicating through channels I am not aware of, I won't know.

From the research I have done and the helpline I spoke to, it is important he knows that he is not being punished. Taking away internet would be the worst kind of punishment for him. He isgreat fan of minecraft and builds incredible things on there. He also does a lot of sports, he isn't always on the internet, before someone starts on that...

I will see what his psychologist advises.

@HandsInHair

"Probably because the friendship benefited OP and her son , and it still does to some level. It's just that now the negatives outweigh the benefits so it's suddenly became an issue. All the girl's fault of course."

Glad you can read minds. You should ask money for your services.

Why would this friendship benefit me at all?
Their friendship isn't just about this clearly. They can also be very sweet to each other with lots of 'I love you's' and them telling each other they are perfect. Banning the friendship would potentially negativly impact both of them. How does anyone know what the fallout from that could be?

When claims of "not being able to survive without each other" are being made by both of them, it is not so easy to decide what is the right thing to do.

They don't speak in real life. It will end as quickly as it began. It's a fantasy only and it's damaging to your son www.google.co.uk/amp/s/time.com/5550803/depression-suicide-rates-youth/%3famp=true

@HandsInHair

Trust me, protecting them is what I am trying to do.

I apreciate your reactions. I am going to see if I can get some professional advice in how to best handle the contact between them.

To be honest, I am still not convinced taking away the phone or blocking the contact is the best way forward. there are so many ways for them to be in touch. At least now I can monitor it. If they start communicating through channels I am not aware of, I won't know.

From the research I have done and the helpline I spoke to, it is important he knows that he is not being punished. Taking away internet would be the worst kind of punishment for him. He isgreat fan of minecraft and builds incredible things on there. He also does a lot of sports, he isn't always on the internet, before someone starts on that...

I will see what his psychologist advises.

Surely at 11 your son has no other channels especially ones that you're not aware of

My son also had a relationship with a girl over text. It's not cute, it's childish and meaningless. It's so unhealthy. She broke up with him and he's fine. Then separately my son started harming himself. We took all social media away and his mental health improved dramatically. Now he can have it for a limited period,

You can't play around with this. I think you're of the mindset that this is cute, and they need each other but they really don't. 11 is far far far too young for all that shit. He's addicted to her and the phone and his young mind at age 11 cannot handle it.

My dd 11 also had a mega depressive episode after too much tik tok use during the first lockdown. We took it away and she's like a whole new person now and full of life again.

Neither of them were happy with their phones being taken however I told them as a mother I need to do what I think is right. I said to them that it's not forever and that I need to see them in a better place before I even consider it.

As for the girl. You should report it but she's not your responsibility to do anything more for. If you don't split them apart now this will get worse as they get older

I would also be changing my sons school to keep them apart tbh. He's self harming, it doesn't get worse than that other than suicide

Sorry to keep posting.. I'm posting as I read haha

Taking away internet would be the worst kind of punishment for him. He isgreat fan of minecraft and builds incredible things on there. He also does a lot of sports, he isn't always on the internet, before someone starts on that...

Don't take away minecraft or his gaming. Just the phone and his ability to access whatsapp, Snapchat, insta etc

When I had my sons phone I got him to arrange days out at the park or trampoline centre with his mates at school and we took them out and also had a pizza party at home for them. the idea is not to punish but to help him build healthy real life friendships

Why not play minecraft with him

No ones saying you should punish him at all. Like I said, it will feel like a punishment to him but explain it to him. if he was an alcoholic would you let him have vodka? No you just wouldn't because it's not helping him.

He really does not need a phone. He will live without it and probably a lot happier too

He would be the only child in his class without a phone.
And all those platforms are available via the internet too...
I do limit his social media screentime now . He gets 1 hour in total a day, including time to speak with his dad. I had limited it before but he had cracked my code. All re-instated though.
I will speak to his DF about it as taking away the phone would also impact their relationship. I am not always on my phone to spot when he is trying to call. The relationship with his DF is the main cause of his own insecurities...
So it really isn't as simple as it seems.

Contact the school immediately, this is a safeguarding issue for both children. Request that the school informs the other parents.

As they only communicate by social media you have total control to stop it in its tracks. Take his screens away and tell him there is no question of further contact because it is actively harming both him and her. You must separate them to protect his mental health and physical safety.

The baggy sweaters may be to conceal where and how badly he's cutting himself. Frankly I'd want a regular full strip search (either you or his dad or GP) to map the current self-harm damage and then monitor if it continues.

I think you shouldn't have given it back when he hacked the screen time password.

You shouldn't be punishing for being too emotionally involved with a friend but for that? Absolutely. Otherwise what's the point?

Do you take his phone away at bedtime? Do you check his computer? Does he use headphones and chat functions? I do think you need to keep a closer eye. He's very young

He would be the only child in his class without a phone. tough shit. Too many parents are afraid to limit their children’s use of social media etc because “he’ll be the only one,” I guarantee you he won’t be the only one without a phone, and if he is, well then such is life. At eleven they all need to be without phones, and they’re not supposed to sign up to social media until they’re 13 and I believe the age limit for WhatsApp now is 18 or 16 at the very youngest.

The reality is that there is a correlation between people who are in communication with others who are depressed/acting out thoughts of self harm and depression in the receiver themselves. There have been a lot of warnings about these so-called depression support forums because too many people on there essentially feed off each other’s depressive episodes. So if he’s speaking to someone who is self harming and this is an intense relationship based on the fact that it is online only, then it is highly likely he will want to act out himself because he will believe that he feels the same way.

You are the parent here FGS. By all means speak to the psychiatrist but by allowing him access to social media you are encouraging this behaviour.

And if he can’t do without the internet then he’s already spending too much time on it.

Get rid of it, all of it, and tbh I count mine craft in that. none of it is healthy.

If you care about your DS then you will take his phone away now and find other outlets for him to be a child.

I guarantee you that his behaviour will change within weeks if not days.

When my DS was 11 he told me that “all my friends are allowed to play 18-rated video games.” I’m sure that some may have been. That doesn’t mean I should let him because others are allowed.

To be honest, I am still not convinced taking away the phone or blocking the contact is the best way forward. there are so many ways for them to be in touch. At least now I can monitor it. If they start communicating through channels I am not aware of, I won't know.

He's eleven years old, it's your job as a parent to be aware of all communication channels he can use!!

From the research I have done and the helpline I spoke to, it is important he knows that he is not being punished.

Then make it clear to him whatever happens isn't a punishment, it's an exercise in parental love and protection. That you're keeping him safe not keeping him punished.

He would be the only child in his class without a phone.

So? He has shown to you that he cannot cope emotionally with the responsibility of having his own phone, so you as a parent need to take away the phone until you've both worked on how he can self regulate better.

You're shirking rather than stepping up. It doesn't matter if he hates you for a week or two, it matters that he is safe and that you start emotionally untangling him from this girl. The poor girl is clearly having a terrible time too but there's nothing you can do other than report to all relevant authorities (which hopefully you've done now) and focus on getting your son well again.

Reading your posts I have to keep reminding myself he is eleven - you're acting as if he's a 15 year old flight risk who keeps sneaking out with a bong to see a girl and you're scared of pushing him into her arms.

He's an eleven year old kid who has been allowed to deal with emotions and situations far, far too big for his age. Take that responsibility away from him and also say sorry that you didn't step in sooner. You'll probably find he is relieved in a few weeks, the poor kid must have been so stressed and anxious and perhaps thought it can't be that bad if I'm still allowed to speak to her.

They can also be very sweet to each other with lots of 'I love you's' and them telling each other they are perfect.

OMG are you blind|? That is not "sweet",, it's part and parcel of a very toxic relationship . full of harm , violence and terrible threats (suicide).

In that context, telling someone " I love you, you're perfect", is just emotional manipulation, setting them up to knock them back down , deny and withdraw that fake love and approval in order to hurt and control.

This is NOT mutual support and encouragement, it's the exact opposite. Coercion. Co-dependence . First steps on the path to sado-masochism.

If this girl has accused her father of sexually abusing her, then your son is in a very precarious position. First, if it's true, that some abused children go on to act out their sexual abuse on another child (yours) and second, that if it's a false accusation made for dramatic effect /sympathy, this very disturbed girl is perfectly capable of making similar fake accusations about an innocent 11 yr old boy. Yours.

I would inform the school of everything and go to the police regarding the allegations about her dad. It’s something that must be taken very seriously. Even if she is making it up, that’s not your call to make.