DP and radically different attitudes to money

[DPMoneyWorries]

NC for obvious reasons, please don't out me if you think you know me.

I will try to put this as neutrally as possible.

When DP and I met, DP had substantial debt in a debt management plan. I knew about this from early on and was told it was all under control and that, once it was paid off, it would all be ok. I accepted this and, once the relationship got more serious, I was fine with the idea that we were a unit and therefore I would end up paying much more of day-to-day expenses (rent etc).

Since then, DP had a baby. Several times over the past few years, I have discovered DP has not told me the whole truth about money. It's been a mixture of DP not finding out what the truth was and telling me something that wasn't correct, or DP actively lying. Needless to say it has been very rocky.

During this time, we have both had patches of unemployment or under-employment, the longest of which involved me working one year when I worked part-time and had baby DD part-time, and one year when I wasn't working at all and had DD nearly full time (we had her in nursery two afternoons so I qualify to get a job, which I then got).

Since the first time I found out DP had not told me the full truth, I have made the point that I have been spending my savings, including an inheritance my relative meant for a house deposit, to meet our costs. I have always paid at least half, including when I wasn't working, and in total I've paid far more than half.

Now my job has come to an end, and DP has been promoted; I am looking at another patch of possible unemployment and DP is in a position to save money. DP wants us to continue paying half the household costs each. DP's logic here is that, if a relationship is going well, you treat household money as shared, but I have been repeatedly saying I felt that DP had effectively spent 'my' money on false pretences, therefore our relationship no longer functions this way.

DP has absolutely no savings and feels very vulnerable; I am very fortunate as I still do have a small amount of savings and my parents are lending me money to buy a house (me, not DP).

DP's position is that if we each pay 50% of bills, it'll be possible to save about 400 per month, and then when there's 5k in the bank, that would be the time to consider letting me pay less than 50%. But until DP has 5k in the bank, there is no chance of letting me pay less than 50%, let alone subsidising me while unemployed.

I feel really angry and cheated here. DP insists I don't get it because I am not, and have never been, financially really vulnerable. This is true. DP also feels that, if we split up, I would be fine because of my savings and the house. DP says if we stay together, of course the 5k savings would be pooled, but until it's clear the relationship is stable, not saving that money would be too risky. I feel that it is ethically wrong.

What do you think?

That post was incredibly difficult to understand.

DP's logic here is that, if a relationship is going well, you treat household money as shared
Sharing household money means both paying into one bank account and both spending from that bank account, making sure that your lifestyle is supported but without insisting that each person is paying in and spending exactly the same amount. Not dividing it up: sharing it. But that's not what he means, then?

In really confused by the post overall but I would argue that when finances were tough for them (eg the debt), you shouldered the burden. Now that finances are tough for you (no income), they should step in and repay the favour.

Lies are never a healthy part of any relationship and lying would be a deal breaker for me, but to each their own.

How are the childs costs funded?

(Or she; also finding it a bit confusing )

First, is the child your DP had also yours? I assume so, but you said 'DP had a baby' rather than 'we had a baby'. That makes it slightly different if this child isn't your child together.

Everyone organises their finances differently. Personally, what works for us is paying proportionately to our incomes. Dh and I have both at varying times earned more than the other. The higher earning partner picks up the slack on essential shared expenses. I don't personally think paying 50/50 when you don't earn the same and one of you having to live off savings is fair or kind. If the higher earner pays more towards expenses, because they are earning more, they should still be able to save, at least as much as the lower earning partner is (which probably isn't much if you're out of work or working very part-time).

I think savings is great, but ultimately, you need to cover your bills and you each need money to spend on non-joint things. Then what is leftover can be saved.

Dh and I don't save jointly. We pay into a joint account proportionate to our incomes and then everything leftover after that each month is our personal spending money. We save individually from this money whatever we can. I either transfer a set amount I want to save at the start of the month (same time as I'm transferring funds to the joint account). Or I transfer everything that is left from my personal account to savings at the end of every month. You each need a fair amount to live on beyond what your shared essential bills are. The only time I would say this should not be the case would be if someone is intentionally not working or intentionally working very little just to be a jerk and financially abuse the other person.

I can't quite follow what's happened

So he thinks that it's OK for you to pay more than half if he's struggling, but not OK for him to pay more than half if you're struggling?

He sounds like an absolute twat OP. You supported him when things were tough, and he has lied to you and betrayed you.

@ThisIsStartingToBoreMe

That post was incredibly difficult to understand.

I'm really sorry! I find it quite hard to summarise because I'm too close to it, basically. If you tell me what's unclear I can try again?

@ravenmum

DP's logic here is that, if a relationship is going well, you treat household money as shared Sharing household money means both paying into one bank account and both spending from that bank account, making sure that your lifestyle is supported but without insisting that each person is paying in and spending exactly the same amount. Not dividing it up: sharing it. But that's not what he means, then?

No, DP means, you don't worry about who had more money in the bank or who earns more, you just pool it.

I am fine with this in principle; my parents were like this.

You do not make clear whether your current home you both live in is a rental or owned by you.

I feel your savings if they were intended for a deposit, should never have been touched except in extreme emergencies with both of you out of work. Now she’s working and earning decent money, she should be paying more than you. When she was earning less and you were employed with large amounts of savings, then you should have been contributing more than she was... that’s from the little information we have so far.

I notice you don’t mention your sex, and you also say the “DP” had a baby and not “we” had a baby. Were you not involved in that decision making? Is DD not yours biologically? I know you don’t want this to make a difference to how we see it all, but it does.

@mindutopia

First, is the child your DP had also yours? I assume so, but you said 'DP had a baby' rather than 'we had a baby'. That makes it slightly different if this child isn't your child together.

Everyone organises their finances differently. Personally, what works for us is paying proportionately to our incomes. Dh and I have both at varying times earned more than the other. The higher earning partner picks up the slack on essential shared expenses. I don't personally think paying 50/50 when you don't earn the same and one of you having to live off savings is fair or kind. If the higher earner pays more towards expenses, because they are earning more, they should still be able to save, at least as much as the lower earning partner is (which probably isn't much if you're out of work or working very part-time).

I think savings is great, but ultimately, you need to cover your bills and you each need money to spend on non-joint things. Then what is leftover can be saved.

Dh and I don't save jointly. We pay into a joint account proportionate to our incomes and then everything leftover after that each month is our personal spending money. We save individually from this money whatever we can. I either transfer a set amount I want to save at the start of the month (same time as I'm transferring funds to the joint account). Or I transfer everything that is left from my personal account to savings at the end of every month. You each need a fair amount to live on beyond what your shared essential bills are. The only time I would say this should not be the case would be if someone is intentionally not working or intentionally working very little just to be a jerk and financially abuse the other person.

Yes, DD's my daughter also. We share costs for her. The money comes out of DP's account because that works for the bit you can pay pre-tax and because we applied for the free hours on her account, but we split the actual costs when we settle up at the end of the month.

DP says if we stay together, of course the 5k savings would be pooled, but until it's clear the relationship is stable, not saving that money would be too risky.
Also, one minute your DP says that you should both pay the same because your relationship is going well, the next that you should pay the same because it's not clear that the relationship is stable.

I guess you're not married? Are you registered as a parent to dd? If not it does sound like you need to arrange it so that your dp has some financial certainty if you break up. Would be better to arrange that properly rather than DP having to desperately squirrel away money while you fume over it.

@TheSecondAct

You do not make clear whether your current home you both live in is a rental or owned by you.

I feel your savings if they were intended for a deposit, should never have been touched except in extreme emergencies with both of you out of work. Now she’s working and earning decent money, she should be paying more than you. When she was earning less and you were employed with large amounts of savings, then you should have been contributing more than she was... that’s from the little information we have so far.

I notice you don’t mention your sex, and you also say the “DP” had a baby and not “we” had a baby. Were you not involved in that decision making? Is DD not yours biologically? I know you don’t want this to make a difference to how we see it all, but it does.

The current home we live in is rented.

I was trying to put the gender neutrally, which was probably pointless (it just makes it very identifying). We both decided to have DD and are both legal parents; DP is the biological mother. It's me who's taken the career knock in terms of staying home/dropping work to do childcare; that wasn't a deliberate decision but was how it worked out.

I think that given you've paid more when able to and he wasn't, now he's in the position to pay more and you aren't that's what should happen. How much he has in savings is irrelevant. To be honest I would be incredibly unhappy if I was in your position right now.

Did the lies in the past also involve DP trying to save up money without telling you?

Can you give a bit more info on how DP has lied to you about money in the past? What sort of things?

You've intentionally made it gender neutral and that's what has made it difficult to understand.

That said, if you can't agree about your shared financial priorities then it's probably not going to work out whatever sex you are.

@ravenmum

DP says if we stay together, of course the 5k savings would be pooled, but until it's clear the relationship is stable, not saving that money would be too risky. Also, one minute your DP says that you should both pay the same because your relationship is going well, the next that you should pay the same because it's not clear that the relationship is stable.

I guess you're not married? Are you registered as a parent to dd? If not it does sound like you need to arrange it so that your dp has some financial certainty if you break up. Would be better to arrange that properly rather than DP having to desperately squirrel away money while you fume over it.

How would we arrange that DP has some financial certainty, though?

DP's solution is to say she'll save up until she has 5k; if I'm out of work I will have to use my savings to pay 50% of costs because her savings must come first.

I don't feel very happy about that, but maybe I'm just not seeing it properly.

DP had a baby? With whom?

@ravenmum

Did the lies in the past also involve DP trying to save up money without telling you?

No - DP isn't a natural saver; there have been plenty of times when DP has wanted to spend money and has made me think she's in a better financial position than she is (eg., one time she made me think she was saving money to cover the break in the summer when you don't get the 30 free hours childcare, so she suggested we spend some more money on the house. I wasn't that keen. Then later, she admitted she'd never saved the money in the first place, so I had to pay the childcare).

Depends how much you have in savings.

If it's £5k then it's not fair that you have to use your savings also that she can try to save £5k

If it's £20k + then I can understand why she wants some security.

When you paid more you always have more money overall.

Had more money overall.

But if childcare is required in the summer by both of you and the child belongs to both of you then why is it that she was going to pay, she didnt, so you had to?

The child needed the childcare because both of you required it.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Can you give a bit more info on how DP has lied to you about money in the past? What sort of things?

I included some of this in the reply to @ravenmum above. That was one example. Another one was when DP's debt plan finished. It finished early, and I was really worried this was a mistake and very strongly suggested she make sure she get confirmation in writing that she didn't owe any more money, in case it was an error. She told me she'd done this and then it came out she'd not bothered, and it had been an error. Then there were a string of lies covering that.

@MadeForThis

Depends how much you have in savings.

If it's £5k then it's not fair that you have to use your savings also that she can try to save £5k

If it's £20k + then I can understand why she wants some security.

When you paid more you always have more money overall.

Ok, it is more than 20k (not much more), so that's useful to know.