DP and radically different attitudes to money

[DPMoneyWorries]

NC for obvious reasons, please don't out me if you think you know me.

I will try to put this as neutrally as possible.

When DP and I met, DP had substantial debt in a debt management plan. I knew about this from early on and was told it was all under control and that, once it was paid off, it would all be ok. I accepted this and, once the relationship got more serious, I was fine with the idea that we were a unit and therefore I would end up paying much more of day-to-day expenses (rent etc).

Since then, DP had a baby. Several times over the past few years, I have discovered DP has not told me the whole truth about money. It's been a mixture of DP not finding out what the truth was and telling me something that wasn't correct, or DP actively lying. Needless to say it has been very rocky.

During this time, we have both had patches of unemployment or under-employment, the longest of which involved me working one year when I worked part-time and had baby DD part-time, and one year when I wasn't working at all and had DD nearly full time (we had her in nursery two afternoons so I qualify to get a job, which I then got).

Since the first time I found out DP had not told me the full truth, I have made the point that I have been spending my savings, including an inheritance my relative meant for a house deposit, to meet our costs. I have always paid at least half, including when I wasn't working, and in total I've paid far more than half.

Now my job has come to an end, and DP has been promoted; I am looking at another patch of possible unemployment and DP is in a position to save money. DP wants us to continue paying half the household costs each. DP's logic here is that, if a relationship is going well, you treat household money as shared, but I have been repeatedly saying I felt that DP had effectively spent 'my' money on false pretences, therefore our relationship no longer functions this way.

DP has absolutely no savings and feels very vulnerable; I am very fortunate as I still do have a small amount of savings and my parents are lending me money to buy a house (me, not DP).

DP's position is that if we each pay 50% of bills, it'll be possible to save about 400 per month, and then when there's 5k in the bank, that would be the time to consider letting me pay less than 50%. But until DP has 5k in the bank, there is no chance of letting me pay less than 50%, let alone subsidising me while unemployed.

I feel really angry and cheated here. DP insists I don't get it because I am not, and have never been, financially really vulnerable. This is true. DP also feels that, if we split up, I would be fine because of my savings and the house. DP says if we stay together, of course the 5k savings would be pooled, but until it's clear the relationship is stable, not saving that money would be too risky. I feel that it is ethically wrong.

What do you think?

@DPMoneyWorries I think part of the issue is that she genuinely believes that my parents would happily give me more money if I needed it, so what's the big deal?

That's a worrying grabby attitude isn't it? Seems she always just relying on others to pick up her slack. The sooner she realises the world owes her nothing the better

I do understand her point a little tbh. She's clearly screwed up financially at various points and is trying to sort that by saving. You have lots of savings, and are being bought a house etc etc. Whether or not you are 'savvy' you are in a much better financial position than her with help from outside. She wants a little security too.

I appreciate how this feels to you of course.

There are so many threads on here from women who have ended up penniless due to their husband's secret debts, whether from gambling or simply being financially inept.

There is no way I would put her name on an asset like a house when she clearly thinks you are a cash cow to solve her problems.

Don't marry either.

Do you actually want the relationship to work because the resentment you feel now will only grow.

On a side note, does your nursery not give the option to spread the costs over the whole year? So while the the free hours only cover term time your payments remain consistent so not having to find lump sums in summer hols etc.

@MilduraS

My DH and I have separate finances and it works because we pay proportionately. He's always been the much higher earner but if he lost his job tomorrow I'd step in to cover as much of the bills as I could rather than expect him to keep up as usual and pay with his savings. I don't think it's fair of her to say you'd need to pay 50% whether finances are pooled or not.

I really don't understand that. He earns more than you so he saves more than you and then when hard times come he sits pretty on his larger savings not having to worry while you foot the bill out of your income? What's the point of a relationship where his savings only benefit him?

I would probably encourage her to save tbh, see if that helps her overall spending mentality.

I feel like she still hasn’t grown up re financial responsibility because that was totally my response c.5 years ago, oh never mind the money will come from somewhere. It’s a signal of irresponsibility, and immaturity in this regard. No one owes anyone a living, unfortunately (with the relevant childcare/sahp caveats) and everything she receives is coming from somewhere and it’s not simply from her own hard work. Where there is financial disparity you can never assume or be seen to be grabby because it makes the higher earner/receiver of monies doubt your integrity across the board.

Can you tell I’m a working class person with rich friends??

The problem is you can't perfectly balance money in a relationship. Someone always earns less, or inherits less, or gives up more to raise the kids. In theory this should be fine, because there is trust. But most of us arent naive enough to be totally trusting, we want the security of knowing that if the other person walked away, we have enough to survive.

You have brought by far the most to your relationship - you have brought a good credit history so you can rent together, savings of your own, your parents' financial support, and you've also sacrificed your career to support your DP when the baby arrived. Then on top of that your DP broke the trust that is necessary to make you feel secure about investing in the relationship. Meanwhile your DP is trying to defend herself against the risk of you leaving- she appeaes to feel very vulnerable. The truth is she is already FAR better off than she would have been if you had not helped her all this time. If she considers how much you've already done to support her, she may feel less anxious about her future prospects with you.

Honestly - you need relationship counselling to sort out the trust issues. Once you get to the bottom of that, a decision about savings and contributions will emerge.

In the meantime, you both need to stop and think - you can't make the financial contribution feel perfectly fair. In the short term, I'd suggest a compromise: you continue to contribute to the household at a slightly reduced rate, and she aims to build her savings at a slower rate, BUT with the proviso those savings are kept in a joint account.

You have given her NO reason to think you would clean out the joint account and leave her destitute? She has given you plenty of reasons to think that £5k isn't safe in her hands.

My only other thought is- are you SURE she is debt free? Does she really aim to make savings or has she more debt she dare not tell you about?

I ought to go and do some proper work - and I have really appreciated the replies on this thread, especially given how unhelpfully I mangled my OP!

Just quickly, though, @RainingZen, I haven't sacrificed my career. My career is the one that took more knocks; hers has done better. But that wasn't something either of us planned, and there have been times when she's made efforts to make sure I get some time back.

Have you had relationship counselling? I would really recommend it.

When you said "the issue is that I bailed her out before when she wasn't working/had no money, but she isn't willing to bail me out", you are completely overlooking that if you have £20K+ in your bank account and parents willing to buy a house in your name only, then you don't need her to "bail you out".

I think she's being reasonable to want a 5K buffer of savings in case you were to split, seeing as you would end up with a house & 20K in the event of a split.

Your post was hard to understand but essentially what you're saying is:

Person A has nothing in the bank. They are earning enough to cover full household bills on their own, but if they had to do this, would be unable to save.

Person B has 20K in their name, and a house bought for them solely, by their parents. Currently not earning.

Should person A pay for everything, including rent towards the house person B owns, whilst person B is allowed to sit on their own savings of 20K, and person A will then have no money available to try and build their own savings.

It sounds so unfair to expect your DP to cover all the costs while you sit there with an untouched nest egg, regardless of how things have gone in the past.

This is a tough one.

I completely get why you wouldn't want to share money with someone with a history of being very irresponsible and untrustworthy regarding money and debts. I think that's very sensible to have no joint accounts etc.

I am torn on the her supporting you vs savings thing. I do feel like she's not unreasonable to expect you to use savings to get by while you're out of work rather than relying on her income, as she knows you have that money sitting there. I am guessing that when she relied on you she didn't have savings she could have used instead? It sounds like this is the first time she's been in a position to save, maybe she was really looking forward to it becoming a more level playing field financially for you both?

But equally I also think a loving partner would help out, and she could at least let you pay less than 50% until you find a new role. I know I would do that for my DP.

I can also see why she feels insecure about the house thing and you not wanting to buy somewhere with her. Even if you drew it up legally so the first X amount comes back to you in the event of a break-up, at least she could still be involved and have some kind of security in that property, especially now you have a shared child.

Do you think she would feel differently about supporting you while you're out of work rather than depleting your savings if she felt like those savings were going to benefit your family as a whole? Because tbh I could see myself saying the same thing in her shoes. If I knew my DP had quite a bit in savings and was planning to buy a house for us to live in but had been clear that it was going to be his alone then I'd probably think why should I help him keep hold of his savings??

Basically I can completely see where you're coming from, but also understand why someone who has only just got into a position to save up something themselves and who knows their partner has a significant chunk in the bank might rather let them use that.

I do see your point of view, relationships should be a two way street, and you’ve bailed her out before, so she should now. However, you had a load of savings and parents who will help you buy a house, so were in a position to help, she doesn’t have this. If you were to split, she would have nothing, how would she take care of your daughter? So whilst I see your view, I don’t think she’s being unreasonable to want a small amount of savings before helping you, when you already have more than 20k and could help yourself.

To those asking about counselling - yes, we've had relationship counselling, and it was useful, but we got to a point where we both felt we needed to go away and see if we could just put it into action. That was a few weeks back.

Just make sure you don’t end up loosing your house deposit AND the girl and the good relationship with your parents. The insistence about the 5K makes me feel like she wants get out money. She wasn’t terribly concerned about her security and savings before she met you was she, she was comfort with her doings enough to live as a lodger for an indeterminate length of time, but she is now needing a lump sum now that you will be subsidising that without a job?
I have lived as a female couple and would never expect that, let alone demand it. I would be happy at least one of us was safely keeping something for our future home.

I would test the situation with a radical solution. I would return the money to my parents for safe keeping for the next two years, perhaps they could lock it in a high interest account for you. I would then tell my partner that the money has gone back to my parents because we felt it was causing too many problems between us and I want to be on an equal footing. I would expect her to respect thus because it’s not her money, it’s technically my parent’s money. Her reaction will tell you a lot... but reaction or no, I would ring fence the little assets I still have remaining after what has clearly been a very expensive relationship for you to have the pleasure of being in.

You have already invested a lot into the relationship, you don’t need to prove yourself anymore than that. She does however really need to prove to you she us trustworthy and truthful and can be trusted with money. This will take time, trust is after being lost does not return at a snap of a finger because you demand it. No one who knows how bad they are with money would ethically argue that you should still trust them and throw good money after bad, especially after the childcare debacle. What’s to say a few years from now, she won’t say there has been a mishap and an error and there hasn’t been 5K saved after all so we’ll need to save it even more quickly this time?

If it were me, I would be seriously considering the relationship and seriously assessing if she’s looking out for me as much as she’s looking out for herself.

How does she treat the children? Is she responsible in other ways apart from money. Is she a reliable competent parent?

Personally, I am reading from your situation that she is ideally looking for a more heterosexual traditional set up where she gets to shop and spend and you spend less, earn more, and make sure everything balances. Are you comfortable with that benevolent father figure role?

Your roles as you each see them is important to discuss. Whether she will own up to her true inner expectations is another thing.

I’m exhausted just thinking about your situation, I feel bad for you.

@selflove

Your post was hard to understand but essentially what you're saying is:

Person A has nothing in the bank. They are earning enough to cover full household bills on their own, but if they had to do this, would be unable to save.

Person B has 20K in their name, and a house bought for them solely, by their parents. Currently not earning.

Should person A pay for everything, including rent towards the house person B owns, whilst person B is allowed to sit on their own savings of 20K, and person A will then have no money available to try and build their own savings.

It sounds so unfair to expect your DP to cover all the costs while you sit there with an untouched nest egg, regardless of how things have gone in the past.

No, not really (and sorry, I realise my post was badly written and this is why it's not been clear).

If I thought the situation was that I'd have a house and 20k if we split, I would be totally fine with her saving, but she is proposing instead that I use my savings.

My parents haven't bought a house for me; they've loaned me the money.

The problem for me is, if DP carries out her plan, I run down my savings while having a large debt. There's no interest on it, but there's also nothing to stop my parents calling it in or needing to call it in.

I also do think it matters how DP has behaved in the past. If this were a new relationship, and I already owned a house, I can't for a minute imagine saying to DP 'hey, you have no savings and I have 20k, you should definitely be covering everything while I get another job'. But we're not in that situation.

@TheSecondAct - that's such a good idea, and in normal circumstances I would absolutely have said to my parents wow, thanks, this is generous but the absolute wrong time in our relationship.

It's a really complicated situation that is very outing, but there are several reasons why that can't happen (some are beyond my control).

It's funny what you say about a traditional hetero set up, as she's never been in a relationship with a man (I have) and I'd never thought of it like that before.

@SuperMonkeys

I do understand her point a little tbh. She's clearly screwed up financially at various points and is trying to sort that by saving. You have lots of savings, and are being bought a house etc etc. Whether or not you are 'savvy' you are in a much better financial position than her with help from outside. She wants a little security too.

I appreciate how this feels to you of course.

YY, I think this is how she feels - that she is being responsible by saving and therefore it should be fine.

But previously, she said she'd be responsible by sorting out nursery fees, and then she forgot to save for them.

She's taking the piss.
Her attitude seems to be 'what's yours is mine, what's mine's my own'

If I thought the situation was that I'd have a house and 20k if we split, I would be totally fine with her saving, but she is proposing instead that I use my savings.

Yeah but she would have nothing at all if you split, despite sharing a child with you? Even if you agreed to only use the portion of your savings which wasn't loaned to you by your mum and dad, you'd still have that deposit there.

My parents haven't bought a house for me; they've loaned me the money.
The problem for me is, if DP carries out her plan, I run down my savings while having a large debt. There's no interest on it, but there's also nothing to stop my parents calling it in or needing to call it in.

How are you planning to buy a house any time soon though if you are in and out of work? Why would your parents ask for the money back before you've had the opportunity to actually do the thing they gave it to you for? How are you planning on paying them back if it's a loan?

I totally understand you feeling resentful that you've supported her previously and now she's not wanting to do the same, but I do feel like your completely different financial situations are relevant. She didn't have the option to use some (not necessarily all) savings to stay afloat, but you do.

It does read a bit like you want to keep your savings there for when you are ready to buy a house by using your DP's income instead. And in her shoes I'd agree with this but only if those savings were buying a house for us both.

@bibidy - I am currently in work; my contract ends soon and I'm worrying about it taking me a few weeks/months to get something new.

A year or so ago, DP and I planned to buy a house together, using my savings plus a loan from my parents as deposit; we'd have owned that jointly (probably something like a 70/30 split). It then became clear that DP hadn't been honest about money. We couldn't get a mortgage.

If I run down my savings endlessly, no, I won't have a deposit, will I?

I can see this immensely complicated but, I think, on balance, this is why MN tells women no marry before they have babies.

Everybody is lining up to treat this woman like a feckless fool, including your parents, which can’t feel great, and won’t encourage her to share any difficulties she is having with you. Maybe you could show her the tricks of better financial management but I’m not surprised that she is till hiding things from you. Neither am I surprised that she feels she needs a nest egg to give her some security.

Do you know that she is truly bad with money or is just that she has never had enough of it? Where are her parents? Were they supportive in getting her launched in life?

Either way, talking down to her is not the way forward. She will only feel patronised or belittled.

The basic problem is that you considered her good enough to have a baby for you but not good enough to marry or share assets with, which is making her feel anxious and probably hormonal.

I can’t really understand why you did that, but having done it, I think you need to show her more respect. Just a bit. It might pay dividends. Why not go along with the plan for her to save £5k as the next financial priority? It shows good faith. You already have savings and strong parental support, so you can afford to make the gesture (both senses). It might well be that finally having rainy day savings and your support makes all the difference?

Just to add OP, I do understand as I am in a similar position to you. My DP was in debt when we met and when we moved in together, so I bought a flat alone and he lives here with me. He got out of debt last year and now he covers the bills and I pay the mortgage.

So I do totally get the feeling of being cautious and also, quite frankly, not wanting to give away something you've worked hard for when the other person has been quite careless with money and that's why they are in a worse position.

What do you know - broadly - about why she was in debt? I think that makes a difference.

[quote DPMoneyWorries]@bibidy - I am currently in work; my contract ends soon and I'm worrying about it taking me a few weeks/months to get something new.

A year or so ago, DP and I planned to buy a house together, using my savings plus a loan from my parents as deposit; we'd have owned that jointly (probably something like a 70/30 split). It then became clear that DP hadn't been honest about money. We couldn't get a mortgage.

If I run down my savings endlessly, no, I won't have a deposit, will I?[/quote]
Ah I see, I didn't realise you had actually planned to get a place together and her dishonesty had ruined that. I assumed her previous dishonesty meant that you were just reluctant to do it.

Even so though, I guess it still leaves her in the same position of preserving your savings so you can buy yourself a place, rather than being able to build up any safety net of her own.

I feel for you though, it's a genuinely difficult situation. There isn't really a right or wrong and I can see why you both feel as you do.