Bastard bingo around the campfire

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone...creating thread number 2 (or at least, attempting to...!) Link to old thread here

If that link doesn't work, I'll be forever indebted to any of you more mumsnet savvy folks helping me out!

I'll come back in a bit to post properly, thank you all again for your help and support

@helplesshopeless

Also re

he can't believe she's going to have a life of being ferried between two homes and two parents.

An answer to that could be along the lines of

Yes, I know that is not what we dreamed of for her, but we have to put her first! We are being so selfish thinking we can continue to impose the results of our own relationship failures on to her! We need to offer her a healthy outlook, which means not bringing her up to believe that she in the future MUST stay with someone who she isn't happy with.

This angle might hit home for him:
How would he feel if his daughter married someone who treated her as he has treated you?

Anyway. On what grounds would he be filing for divorce from you? He's talking out of his arse.

Get yourself to a solicitor.

Either it is a tactic to get you to beg him not to file or he has done it for advantage. Both situations you will benefit from having legal advice.

Is your DD at nursery so you can take some time to make an appointment and keep it?

Well I would say that's good news ? Although most likely a bluff.
You now no longer have to be the one that said the fated words.
DO NOT agree to any "friendly" division of assets, unless you are 1000% sure he isn't screwing you over.
There will be pension pots, percentage of house etc to divvy up.
I am betting my house he will not be kind, fair, or open about finances.
You need a SHL.
He abused you for years, he will now refer to type

Quentin, he will use infidelity/unreasonable behaviour.

Can't divorce for infidelity unless sex was involved. I'd love to see his examples of unreasonable behaviour. Plus if he has filed he'll have paid the fees.

I strongly suspect this is all made up so he can back down and apologise later. Seems to be a pattern from what OP says. He is horrible, threatens to leave, then apologises but says she drove him to it.

Unfortunately he said he was about to submit the divorce filing but now won't tell me whether he did actually do it or not
If he had done it, he'd be surfing a wave of victimhood and rubbing your face in it.

Would you like to file?

I think it is a threat as well, soon to be followed up by 50:50 of residence or if he is playing hardball, full residency (which he will not get so ignore that one).

Remember whatever he says about child arrangements, you simply need to re-iterate the need to act in DD’s best interests as it is about her well-being, not issues between you, and this can be discussed at mediation. In fact, any discussion about any settlement of any kind can be discussed at mediation (once you have had legal advice). So don’t engage.

Keep calm. You can do this.

@helplesshopeless
Unfortunately he said he was about to submit the divorce filing but now won't tell me whether he did actually do it or not, so everything is a bit up in the air at the moment.

I'm so sorry. This is step 1 of the mental torture he apparently likes to inflict on you.

If the tables were turned, would you treat him like this? Would you withhold information deliberately, to intensify his pain and control him with power games?

I'm afraid his approach will probably be to use the thumbscrews on you emotionally, e.g. by rubbing your nose constantly in how upset he is. He knows how much that distresses you.

Just remember that the reason this is all going to be a bloody, horrible mess, instead of a civilised arrangement between adults, is that he is not interested in doing things nicely. All the time you are agonising over making things easier for him, he will be making sure things are as difficult as they possibly can be for you. It's because he really doesn't care about your feelings at all, or at least only in relation to controlling you in relation to him.

And that's precisely why you're in this situation in the first place. It really is a proper tragedy, but of course the tragic hero is blithely unaware of the faults that compel him to his fate.

Sorry, this really is going to be horrible. Massive, massive respect to you for getting this far. Sending you all the courage and energy you're going to need to get through what's ahead.

Please try to keep in mind, for the sake of your own sanity, that he is stormy and thrives on chaos. There's a wonderful bit in Chanel Miller's Know My Name that might help:

I used to shrink at harsh tones, used to be afraid. Until I learned it takes nothing to be hostile. Nothing. It is easy to be the one yelling, chucking words that burn like coals, neon red, meant to harm. I have learned I am water. The coals sizzle, extinguishing when they reach me. I see now, those fiery coals are just black stones, sinking to the bottom.

Good luck OP, try to find some space to treat yourself with love, patience and kindness, because he certainly won't. 💗 One day you will look back on this and I promise you will think it's the best thing you ever did.

Courage OP ,actually I think a messy divorce with him being unhelpful is NOT going to be worse than the situation you are in .It will be unpleasant but you're already living with constant unpleasantness and an uncertain rollercoaster .

At least this will be a helter skelter that comes to an end .An end where you will be away from him .

Courage ,courage .You are doing the right thing for all involved .

I hope he doesn't backtrack .But he has made his position clear - he can't go on any further .

As another PP said ,it will be like the tide going out with waves sometimes coming back up the beach .For you both .But it will recede and there will be fresh clear sand .

"we made a commitment to giving our daughter a stable home when we chose to have a baby and he can't believe she's going to have a life of being ferried between two homes and two parents"

I'm sure you can't either, it's ok for you to sad about it. But sparing your daughter travelling time is not a strong enough reason for you to be an emotional punching bag all of your days. And not a good enough reason for her to grow up with an overcritical and angry man making her mother's (and eventually her) life a misery if anyone steps out of line.

My twopennorth - he won't have filed for divorce. Once you two divorce he's got no legal connection to you (except through your child) and given how averse he seems to you even sitting on a bench alone I can't see waving you off to an independent life just like that. He's hoping saying he's done it will force you to beg for mercy him to change his mind, and/or will delay you doing it. I'd be AMAZED if he's done it. Just speak to his solicitor.

He has not filed for divorce, he is trying to make you dance to his tune.

Divorce on infidelity grounds has to involve sexual intercourse and does not include kissing and there must be evidence so either you have written it down and signed to say you did or a private investigator took photos of you in the act.

For unreasonable behaviour you have to apply within 6 months of the last unreasonable behaviour and ideally ne living apart or seperate lives.
Unreasonable behaviour means he cannot possible live with you due to your behaviour so this would be difficult as you were still together up until this morning.

I'd like to see what grounds he is using as you need between 4 -6 grounds to be able to submit it.

Act like he's done the application and get legal advice asap.

If he has done the divorce you will get a letter or email within weeks telling you to reply to his petition.

I hope he doesn't backtrack
I hope OP doesn't backtrack. I think that's the technique he uses: threats until she feels bad about it and tries to make him happy again.

I agree Raven. OP is probably having one of the hardest days of her life if she is (and I hope she is) agreeing that yes it’s time to call it a day, rather than cowering under his “threats” and agreeing to resume her place at his feet.

@Mix56

Well I would say that's good news ? Although most likely a bluff. You now no longer have to be the one that said the fated words. DO NOT agree to any "friendly" division of assets, unless you are 1000% sure he isn't screwing you over. There will be pension pots, percentage of house etc to divvy up. I am betting my house he will not be kind, fair, or open about finances. You need a SHL. He abused you for years, he will now refer to type

This.

What a knob.

Well you have had years of nastiness from him, so expect him to revert to same.

Reach out for support from family, friends and the recommendation of a good divorce lawyer.

What a twat.

Courage my dear girl, hold on tight to whatever scraps of it you can find.

Either he is bluffing (which I suspect is likely) and just trying to frighten you back into what he considers your place, or he has got the process started for you.

Either way, as the other girls have said, SHL NOW...I don't know where you are in the country but there are some excellent family law firms out there, have a look online at the Legal 500 - this is a searchable list of the top firms voted by solicitors, divided up by area and specialism.

Thanks all he hadn't filed, but he had it drafted ready to click submit. We've had a really tough day, he's crying a lot, he's desperate to make things work and is devastated about his previous behaviour. He's been completely sobbing for hours over what this all means for our daughter. I think it's just a lot of emotions he's been holding in that are all falling out of him today.

We've still not concluded, things have calmed down but still up in the air to be honest.

Oh and I've had some initial legal advice a while back so am comfortable on that front. Ive already said to him I'm happy for him to file against me under unreasonable behaviour but I'd only agree to it if he didn't use it to force me to pay his court costs.

Has he come back crying like a baby yet ?
Oh, & now is the time, to lock down all your phone & computer passwords, as I mentioned before. delete iCloud etc, to be sure your activity isn't being read on his iPad etc.He will play dirty & be looking to see who you are contacting. He is already playing games.
Check he isn't moving money around, ie out of your joint bank account.
Do not believe he will act fairly. He won't. It will all be about punishing you now.

sorry crossed post.... He's so predictable

Remember that making him happy does not mean making him happy right this minute. It might mean making him happy by divorcing him, so that he gets his issues sorted out finally and has a better relationship with someone else in a few years' time.

@Mix56

Has he come back crying like a baby yet ? Oh, & now is the time, to lock down all your phone & computer passwords, as I mentioned before. delete iCloud etc, to be sure your activity isn't being read on his iPad etc.He will play dirty & be looking to see who you are contacting. He is already playing games. Check he isn't moving money around, ie out of your joint bank account. Do not believe he will act fairly. He won't. It will all be about punishing you now.

He's already punishing her! With the crying.

By the end of the day he wants her begging to give it a bit longer.

should read, delete shared iCloud

So you know how to make sure you don't pay his court costs? He won't play fair.

I've filed/actually I haven't filed I just said that - he just toys with you doesn't he, like you're a mouse and he's the cat and he can pat you back and forth for his own amusement...

I'm sure it's very sad watching him be so sad, I'm afraid I'm less than convinced that his main concern is about what this means for DD...if he was that worried about that he'd have stopped being a complete arsehole a while back.

And remember that it's not just him who gets to decide when things are concluded...you are also able to decide that you don't want things leaving "up in the air", you can bring them right down to earth by saying that it's over.

I'm sorry that this is so, so tough...but this is the start of better times, even if it doesn't feel like it right this moment