The 'all men watch porn' mentality

[mag2305]

I've been looking for support in different places recently as my husband is battling a porn addiction. I've looked at various support groups, articles, videos, etc, and also, forum threads like on Mumsnet. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions on porn, fair enough. But I'm also amazed by the number of women who are adament that they're 'totally OK with it'... It's normal'. Of course, women may enjoy porn themselves whilst in a relationship, although through my research I know it's a lot less than men and I wonder if women get addicted in the numbers that men do.

My experience... I've been with my husband for 4 years. His porn addiction goes back to his teenage years. Alongside this, he has also had depression and anxiety for many years so was vulnerable to something like porn addiction. I only found out about his porn use half way into our relationship. For him, when it's bad, it's been frequent watching at times, daily. Also at times when he's particularly low. He's lied about it over and over again but has also had more honest times where he's said what a battle it is in his mind. From my perspective, it's warped his mind. He looks at other women a lot as we walk/drive along and has said he gets arousing thoughts. If he doesn't watch porn, he feels compelled to masturbate. Maybe this is OK in moderation but again, it's been frequent, and he's also masturbated to thoughts of our female friends and his exs. OK, this is a fantasy type thing but added to the porn, it's not a great situation.

This has had such a damaging impact on our marriage. I wonder how many other people could say the same? Are some women just in denial that porn, etc isn't a problem?

Morally, my personal position is that I hate it. It's a horrible industry with many sad stories behind the scenes. Degrades both women and men.
And strangely enough, my husband hates a lot of it too but doesn't allow himself to think about it in that way. Is it entertainment or a corruption of mind, body and soul? As a mum to a little boy, I would hate to think of him watching porn in his early teens and getting hooked into it. Thinking that it's all normal stuff and that's what real sex is like.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post but I suppose I'm just surprised by the number of women who are 'OK with it'.

Me too. Masturbation is no big deal, but porn is horrible, exploitative and so... narrow, if that makes sense. My husband doesn't watch porn and I know he doesn't. (And I can hear a lot of misguided people saying "he does, they all do, you just don't know about it" - but I do know and he doesn't.) I think the extent to which it impacts them is proportional to how much they watch, and occasional use probably doesn't do too much damage. But to me it's on the same spectrum as strip clubs and prostitution - the lesser end of that spectrum, but I still couldn't ever be 'fine' with it.

Ahhh so because you don't agree with it or understand why on earth someone would watch sex, then everyone else must be wrong.
I'm sure sooner or later we will have the ol' exploiting women posts, and then probably the empowerment type.

You do you. Let everyone else do them.

As a mother to 4 girls, I am worried about their future relationships involving males that are overexposed to porn. When porn is the "norm" and conditioned in society, males think that sex is just about them, the female is only there to be part of their gratification. I don't want my girls in relationships like these. Teen boys have instant access to viewing material that they just should not be exposed to and at such a quantity, it changes the functioning of their brains.

Moral relativism at its finest, baileys6904. 🙄

My husband doesn't watch porn, I used to and I guess still do every once in a while (maybe once or twice a year). I don't have a problem with it because I grew up watching porn. If it was an addiction then that's a different situation but I don't think you can paint every situation with the same brush

how can you even find your DH attractive when he’s drooling over women you walk / drive by? It’s gross and disrespectful to you. Your little boy will learn these behaviours from his dad.

Those who are fine with it and it’s all upfront in your household then ok— but don’t come on here moaning when you find your husband sexting randoms or looking up sexy pics of your friends on Facebook or watching webcams or asking for certain acts that you aren’t ok with etc. By being cool about it , you are effectively with ‘some’ men giving them the green light to other unacceptable behaviours who see it all just as ‘fantasy’

Mine does not watch porn and I'd leave him if he did.

What other people do or put up with is up to them.

I think there's potentially 2 issues here 1) porn and 2) compulsive behaviour

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/compulsive-sexual-behavior/symptoms-causes/syc-20360434#:~:text=Compulsive%20sexual%20behavior%20is%20sometimes,other%20parts%20of%20your%20life.

I was in a similar situation to you and it destroyed my marriage eventually. Excessive porn watching escalated to paying for private webcam sex sessions. I used to walk in and find him wanking to porn all over the house at all times of day. And it was accompanied by some sexually coercive behaviours.

I think porn is like alcohol in some ways. It isn't a healthy habit but lots of people use it and there's a lot of social pressure to be OK with it. For a minority of people it can result in addiction.

It's worse than alcohol in that its all so shameful and secretive, and doesn't have massive consequences like being arrested for drunk driving or getting cirrhosis of the liver would. So porn addicts don't get help. Partners of porn addicts don't talk about what happens at home. And in my experience if you say that's why you've left, a load of assumptions get made by some that the partner was using porn because they didn't get enough sex at home, or you are a prude. I feel to leave an alcoholic is more socially acceptable.

I used to be ok with porn but I hate it now as a result of what it's done to my life. But you are correct that people will be "all men do it, its fine"

PS I've since discovered all men don't do it and sex with non porn users is a revelation

It's not fine and you don't have to be okay with it. It destroys the intimacy and safe vulnerability that exists in a marriage.
I could go off on a feminist rant but I will restrain myself.
The scary thing about porn addiction is that is can escalate. That is, what used to be exciting no longer does it for them, so they look up more extreme or violent porn to keep getting off.
Ultimately, it's up to you. What do you find acceptable? If you don't find it acceptable, that's totally fine and normal. Not every man watches porn. You don't have to believe that lie.

I think the 'all men/everyone watches it' comes in part from data that pretty much everyone has seen pornography. This is pretty much true to our understanding, it's very difficult in this day and age to find many adults (or teenagers) who haven't seen porn at all. It makes it hard to do research on it as we've no real control group. I recommend, if interested (and plenty of time without kids around), for a look into the social science research including the issues in researching it from an academic and libertarian perspective (so not someone who is anti-porn in the slightest, but doesn't shy away from research that discusses the concerns of porn use). I don't agree with everything she says on it, but she explains the data well and doesn't fall into the issue with many sites on porn research of trying to prove it one way or the other.

Having seen porn is not the same as continuing to watch porn, let alone it being a current regular habit. Getting that data is difficult as there are so many different conflicting attitudes around porn, but not separating out that people who have seen porn in the past (which is where the commonly given 99% comes from) from those who are using it now in their lives doesn't paint a true picture, even when we don't have full clarity on this. I don't see the benefit in perpetuating the idea it's everyone.

Also, porn is also treated too often as the only option, as if written or drawn erotica hasn't also exploded with the internet. We now have audiobook erotica and erotic audio breathwork meditations available. Some of these also have ethical concerns, but to most it's a very different level of concern and repercussions compared to pornography or deep fake photos and videos going around now. Some will use a mix, but then some will use none of these. The idea that everyone, or even all men with their visualness, gets off seeing real people is a pretty reductive view of sexual preferences, before getting into how different people process the growing knowledge of issues within industries around porn.

@PurpleSneakers - Not all boys have access to porn, we have parental internet settings to block all porn sites etc.
I think your generalisation about males is a bit strong, maybe your husband only sees you for his sexual gratification but myn doesn’t.

Such an outdated argument about the industry that i see frequently on MN. I can only assume that it is used as a trump card to discredit anyone who may disagree with them. The trust is, most porn nowadays is amateur porn which features regular people/couples that choose to upload their content for fun and monetary gain. Only the big productions are produced by companies. Contemporary platforms like only fans allow creators to be their own boss and dictate their own careers.

To be clear, I know how destructive porn addiction can be. I would hate to date a man who is/was addicted to porn because — just as sex addiction — it can warp their sense of reality and ruin lives.

However, to lump all consumption of porn as some seedy industry is just such a naive and shallow perspective. As if all the female sex workers are hopeless damsels in distress without a discernible grasp on how they’re being objectified. Just throwing a theory out there: could it be that sex workers enjoy sex and therefore choose to pursue a lucrative career in it? Could it be that women are aware that men objectify their body so they find a way to reclaim back that power by capitalising on it?

I think a lot women attribute porn-watching as the root of their relationship problems, but the reality is men can still be devious in other ways — ogling other women, overtly flirtatious, emotional affairs, prostitution — need I go on? It is impossible to restrict how men fulfil their desires, because if they want to, sure enough they will. They’ll just become more creative about ways to find it and hide it.

I should note that I absolutely understand why many women have a boundary of no porn watching. That’s their god given right! But what I don’t like is this inference that those men who abide by it are morally superior or a more faithful and committed strain of men. It’s simply not true. Porn addiction is very different to recreational porn watching. Just as social drinking is very different to being alcohol dependant.

Porn addiction is like any other addiction - alcohol, drugs, gambling, consumerism etc Having been brought up in an alcoholic household I know that there's nothing you can do about the other person's addiction. All you can do is look after yourself.

There's a big difference between having a pint once a week in the local and spending all your cash on booze and hiding empties in the recycling. I'm not sure why you're concerned about what other women think and do OP when you're with an addict in a full blown addiction.

Perhaps you should focus on working out what you want and take it from there.

Lots of women have half cracked ideas about men, it's why misogyny thrives. Boys will be boys, all men look at porn, he just doesn't see the dirt, his memory is bad, he's an alpha man, sexual harassment is a compliment, he's just jealous cos he loves me, he can't help looking at other women that's what men are like; they're more visual, men need sex or their balls drop off etc etc

Makes your eyes roll out of your head but 'all men look at porn' is just another type of bullshit pandering to male entitlement.

@premium77

Such an outdated argument about the industry that i see frequently on MN. I can only assume that it is used as a trump card to discredit anyone who may disagree with them. The trust is, most porn nowadays is amateur porn which features regular people/couples that choose to upload their content for fun and monetary gain. Only the big productions are produced by companies. Contemporary platforms like only fans allow creators to be their own boss and dictate their own careers.

To be clear, I know how destructive porn addiction can be. I would hate to date a man who is/was addicted to porn because — just as sex addiction — it can warp their sense of reality and ruin lives.

However, to lump all consumption of porn as some seedy industry is just such a naive and shallow perspective. As if all the female sex workers are hopeless damsels in distress without a discernible grasp on how they’re being objectified. Just throwing a theory out there: could it be that sex workers enjoy sex and therefore choose to pursue a lucrative career in it? Could it be that women are aware that men objectify their body so they find a way to reclaim back that power by capitalising on it?

I think a lot women attribute porn-watching as the root of their relationship problems, but the reality is men can still be devious in other ways — ogling other women, overtly flirtatious, emotional affairs, prostitution — need I go on? It is impossible to restrict how men fulfil their desires, because if they want to, sure enough they will. They’ll just become more creative about ways to find it and hide it.

I should note that I absolutely understand why many women have a boundary of no porn watching. That’s their god given right! But what I don’t like is this inference that those men who abide by it are morally superior or a more faithful and committed strain of men. It’s simply not true. Porn addiction is very different to recreational porn watching. Just as social drinking is very different to being alcohol dependant.

There are literally so many studies that show how damaging porn is to women as a class and society as a whole. I don't understand how people can just pretend all of the science, research and statistics don't exist? The trafficking of women and children in porn is rife. So many girls and women have videos uploaded of them without their consent. The number of men using child pornography is sky-rocketing due to porn. What research have you done into the industry?

The few women who are in the industry purely by choice and making tons of money are not representative of the millions of women and children who men wank to - they are a privileged minority.

I also completely disagree with this 'reclaiming' oppression narrative. All it does is make women feel more comfortable with the fact that they are being oppressed - it does not make men change their behaviour and it does not challenge any societal structures that keep women as second-class citizens. This is why men love spouting their support of women being sex workers - because they know that it means the society that gives them so much male privilege and power remains intact. Anything that is truly good for women, a large proportion of men will be against it. If men are super supportive of women doing something that's a pretty good indicator that that something is not beneficial for women.

I could go on - porn is such a toxic industry that would simply not be able to function if misogyny did not exist.

My ex had a very unhealthy relationship with porn, masturbation and sex in general. He would watch porn and masterbate multiple times a day, even sneaking off to the toilet at work to do it. He also cheated multiple times throughout our relationship. I don't blame the porn for this necessarily, it was his choice to behave that way, but he certainly had a very toxic relationship with porn, and sex in general.

I have no problem with my DP now watching porn. He has the odd hand shandy in the shower which he freely admits to and I honestly don't know where he would find the time to watch porn as we have 2 young DDs and are pretty shattered most of the time I watch it myself from time to time, perhaps once every month or 2. I think it's fine as an adult to have a healthy relationship with porn.

I think a lot women attribute porn-watching as the root of their relationship problems, but the reality is men can still be devious in other ways — ogling other women, overtly flirtatious, emotional affairs, prostitution — need I go on? It is impossible to restrict how men fulfil their desires, because if they want to, sure enough they will. They’ll just become more creative about ways to find it and hide it.

To add to this - women don't need to accept any of this stuff, ever.
More women need to become comfortable with remaining single when there are no adequate male partners available to them. If men are truly as devious and unfaithful as this comment suggests, then we need to stop dating them - not just put our hands up and go 'Oh well, he's never going to fully respect me so may as well just let him get on with it!'.

My DP doesn’t watch it and I know it’s true because he went through a top secret government clearance process that checked for it. The idea that all men watch it / that they somehow “need” it is bullshit. The world will never become a safer place for our daughters until we tackle the porn issue head-on.

I think porn is truly grim. But as a separate concept, it's healthy for men to masturbate as (small fun fact) a daily orgasm can cut the risk of prostate cancer significantly.

The trust is, most porn nowadays is amateur porn which features regular people/couples that choose to upload their content for fun and monetary gain.

Where do you get that source for "most"? How does this source verify that it's regular people who upload for fun of all participants involved?

How does that source line up with recent issues with pornhub where over 2/3rd of their content was purged after years of people discussing that videos of them had been posted nonconsensually, including videos of them being raped and videos on a large pornhub channel which hosted what is now known to be videos by sex traffickers? How does it line up with the rising issue of revenge porn which sure, may be regular people, but it's not posted online for the fun of all participants? How does it take into consideration OnlyFans has also had issues with sex trafficking and child exploitation brought up, along with more mundane issues like OnlyFans creators having had their work recorded and uploaded elsewhere without their consent or control?

Even if it is somehow the majority, that it's over 51% of currently made or available porn which I'm not sure how one could verify, that wouldn't change that, while pretty much all men will have seen porn at some point, that doesn't mean they all continue to watch it as part of their lives now. The idea that everyone watching it and is just hiding it is outdated and mostly based on misrepresented data. Even if it met someone's ethical or moral standards, that doesn't mean they'd enjoy it.

Only the big productions are produced by companies.

It doesn't have to include a company for it to be part of what most mean when discussing industry. Beauty products made and sold by one person are still part of what people mean when discussing the beauty industry. It's the same with porn.

One-person bands and big production teams and everything in between all feed into each other. Something created with little to no budget doesn't automatically mean it's made to higher ethical standards, sometimes quite the opposite.

So many really interesting comments on this. Maybe this was my purpose of the post to just hear opinions.

My personal problem is different in that it's an addiction my husband has and that is very tough on our family unit as a whole. It's not simply a case of me hating it and telling him to go. Marriage is a journey with challenges along the way and I hope we can get through this. But that doesn't take away that our marriage has also been on a knife edge over porn.

I don't like porn. That's just me, my personal opinion. It's not that I care that other women are in favour of porn, more that I'm trying to figure a lot out at the moment.
I'm quite a protective sort of person and I hate to think of an industry where people are being exploited. I think about what might have gone on in the lives of all sex workers, including porn, to get them into that world. Plus, the porn film scenarios and stories don't seem morally right, like step dad f*s step daughter. And that's mainstream. As a teacher, I taught a child who was the product of such a 'story'. So is this entertainment? Or is this the power of such a big industry telling the consumers, this is entertainment to get off on?!

Becoming a parent definitely made me think about this issue even more. I found a brilliant speaker called Gail Dines. For anyone interested, I would recommend listening to her talks.
Just helped me to stand back and really think about things as facts not just opinions.

Have you done any research into co dependence OP as it sounds as though you are also in the morass of an addiction. You are right in that is it a journey, one in which you are naive to because you think that by supporting him (enabling), blaming the cause of addiction (porn) and being there for him to the detriment of everyone else, will somehow save him from himself.

When you come out the other side, exhausted, on your knees, spent, resentful and angry at the time you wasted - you'll see that there's nothing you can do as he needs to seek help for himself because he wants to get clean.

I wish you all the best on your journey.

@keyboardmash, awww fanks babes... Look at you with the long words, well done!

And look at me, respecting individuals rights and thoughts on their own relationship. You do you. If you aren't happy, if its a deal breaker for you, don't put up with it. If its not, great.

There's a huge difference between addiction and enjoyment. In all things. The overriding opinion (in legal addictions) is whether it interferes in life.

But just as people don't like veganism forced on them if meat eaters, or religion if atheist, its no one's right to say what is acceptable or not in an individuals relationship, apart from those individuals concerned

The trust is, most porn nowadays is amateur porn which features regular people/couples that choose to upload their content for fun and monetary gain.

I don’t think anyone claims that every single porn video is definitely exploitation. I think the issue is more that if you watch an amateur porn video, you have no way of knowing what the situation is - for example, do both people know that they’re being filmed, and if so have they both agreed it will be uploaded to the internet?

@maskface212

Porn addiction is like any other addiction - alcohol, drugs, gambling, consumerism etc Having been brought up in an alcoholic household I know that there's nothing you can do about the other person's addiction. All you can do is look after yourself.

There's a big difference between having a pint once a week in the local and spending all your cash on booze and hiding empties in the recycling. I'm not sure why you're concerned about what other women think and do OP when you're with an addict in a full blown addiction.

Perhaps you should focus on working out what you want and take it from there.

Lots of women have half cracked ideas about men, it's why misogyny thrives. Boys will be boys, all men look at porn, he just doesn't see the dirt, his memory is bad, he's an alpha man, sexual harassment is a compliment, he's just jealous cos he loves me, he can't help looking at other women that's what men are like; they're more visual, men need sex or their balls drop off etc etc

Makes your eyes roll out of your head but 'all men look at porn' is just another type of bullshit pandering to male entitlement.

This, 100%!