The 'all men watch porn' mentality

[mag2305]

I've been looking for support in different places recently as my husband is battling a porn addiction. I've looked at various support groups, articles, videos, etc, and also, forum threads like on Mumsnet. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions on porn, fair enough. But I'm also amazed by the number of women who are adament that they're 'totally OK with it'... It's normal'. Of course, women may enjoy porn themselves whilst in a relationship, although through my research I know it's a lot less than men and I wonder if women get addicted in the numbers that men do.

My experience... I've been with my husband for 4 years. His porn addiction goes back to his teenage years. Alongside this, he has also had depression and anxiety for many years so was vulnerable to something like porn addiction. I only found out about his porn use half way into our relationship. For him, when it's bad, it's been frequent watching at times, daily. Also at times when he's particularly low. He's lied about it over and over again but has also had more honest times where he's said what a battle it is in his mind. From my perspective, it's warped his mind. He looks at other women a lot as we walk/drive along and has said he gets arousing thoughts. If he doesn't watch porn, he feels compelled to masturbate. Maybe this is OK in moderation but again, it's been frequent, and he's also masturbated to thoughts of our female friends and his exs. OK, this is a fantasy type thing but added to the porn, it's not a great situation.

This has had such a damaging impact on our marriage. I wonder how many other people could say the same? Are some women just in denial that porn, etc isn't a problem?

Morally, my personal position is that I hate it. It's a horrible industry with many sad stories behind the scenes. Degrades both women and men.
And strangely enough, my husband hates a lot of it too but doesn't allow himself to think about it in that way. Is it entertainment or a corruption of mind, body and soul? As a mum to a little boy, I would hate to think of him watching porn in his early teens and getting hooked into it. Thinking that it's all normal stuff and that's what real sex is like.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post but I suppose I'm just surprised by the number of women who are 'OK with it'.

[quote baileys6904]@washingtofold aww thanks for being concerned but it's unwarranted. I would have thought gender issues would be more a sociology thing?? Nice of you to presume my areas of research and study though, especially with my MSc being the only course in the UK to specialise, but I digress.
For research that state there is correlation, there are studies that say not. Meta analysis which should give a comparative overview also disagree. www.utsa.edu/today/2020/08/story/pornography-sex-crimes-study.html
Porn has been around centuries in one way or another and if the case all viewers turned into sex crazed monsters incapable of being responsible for their own behaviour, we would live in a shitter world than we are now.
That's said, that doesn't lessen the pain of the OP and I reiterate, there is a big difference between porn viewing and porn addiction.
BTW @touma, why do you expect someone to respect your point of view and yet make personal jibes to them. Why would @premium77 be naive, just because they don't agree with you? How many sex workers have you spoken to exactly?[/quote]

I don't mind if they don't respect me, because I already know they don't respect women so I don't expect anything more. Therefore, I don't respect them.

Yeah my partner went on anti depressants 2017 sterline, it's kinda slowed his head down and stop it thinking so hard. There's also lots of videos on YouTube he should watch. It's an addiction so he needs to treat it like an addiction. Find triggers etc. My partner actually suffered withdrawals and would take panic attacks and shake after about his second day of not watching it. My partner came off his antidepressant after about 6months after he felt he had gain control, but I was pregnant and told him I was leaving ( together 12yrs at the time most of me telling him he had an addiction and him denying) this was a massive driving force for him. X

@premium77

Such an outdated argument about the industry that i see frequently on MN. I can only assume that it is used as a trump card to discredit anyone who may disagree with them. The trust is, most porn nowadays is amateur porn which features regular people/couples that choose to upload their content for fun and monetary gain. Only the big productions are produced by companies. Contemporary platforms like only fans allow creators to be their own boss and dictate their own careers.

To be clear, I know how destructive porn addiction can be. I would hate to date a man who is/was addicted to porn because — just as sex addiction — it can warp their sense of reality and ruin lives.

However, to lump all consumption of porn as some seedy industry is just such a naive and shallow perspective. As if all the female sex workers are hopeless damsels in distress without a discernible grasp on how they’re being objectified. Just throwing a theory out there: could it be that sex workers enjoy sex and therefore choose to pursue a lucrative career in it? Could it be that women are aware that men objectify their body so they find a way to reclaim back that power by capitalising on it?

I think a lot women attribute porn-watching as the root of their relationship problems, but the reality is men can still be devious in other ways — ogling other women, overtly flirtatious, emotional affairs, prostitution — need I go on? It is impossible to restrict how men fulfil their desires, because if they want to, sure enough they will. They’ll just become more creative about ways to find it and hide it.

I should note that I absolutely understand why many women have a boundary of no porn watching. That’s their god given right! But what I don’t like is this inference that those men who abide by it are morally superior or a more faithful and committed strain of men. It’s simply not true. Porn addiction is very different to recreational porn watching. Just as social drinking is very different to being alcohol dependant.

Hit the nail on the head!!

@rejoiningperson see that proves a lot. Show me where I said I was a psychologist please? Doesn't have to be on this post, go through my history as far as you like, and show me where I said I was a psychologist.

I said I had 2 psychology degrees. Which I do, a Bsc and MSc so the science based. Doesn't make me a psychologist though, that was your presumption based on the very limited knowledge you were given.

Which tells a tale really doesn't it. You create your own narrative and base your opinion on that. Even if it's completely incorrect.

Also I've already linked a meta analysis debunking the porn and sexual violence. Google positive studies and I'm sure you'll find more. Hence why it's inconclusive.

However, again to the OP, who this thread is meant to be about, nobody should feel disrespected, and everyone is entitled to their own boundaries. Don't negotiate on something you feel strongly about

[quote baileys6904]@rejoiningperson see that proves a lot. Show me where I said I was a psychologist please? Doesn't have to be on this post, go through my history as far as you like, and show me where I said I was a psychologist.

I said I had 2 psychology degrees. Which I do, a Bsc and MSc so the science based. Doesn't make me a psychologist though, that was your presumption based on the very limited knowledge you were given.

Which tells a tale really doesn't it. You create your own narrative and base your opinion on that. Even if it's completely incorrect.

Also I've already linked a meta analysis debunking the porn and sexual violence. Google positive studies and I'm sure you'll find more. Hence why it's inconclusive.

However, again to the OP, who this thread is meant to be about, nobody should feel disrespected, and everyone is entitled to their own boundaries. Don't negotiate on something you feel strongly about[/quote]
Regardless of the fact you didn’t say you were a psychologist , you used your psychology degrees to back up your argument by saying there was no evidence of porn harm during your studies
There was no evidence of the harks or arsenic during my studies . That doesn’t mean a thing!
You owe it to yourself to get educated about the industry

@london

‘Secondly, the porn industry has many exploitative areas to it, as do many others. There are many websites with stricter guidelines and ways to view 'ethical' porn. I do watch occasionally porn, I don't however eat animals, as I don't think it's particularly moral, but I don't press judgment on others who don't follow that same line of thought. There will always be shortcomings in people, I don't think shaming anyone, particularly women, online is the best way for anyone to treat this subject

Not wanting to be with someone who is indifferent to the abuse , suffering and and demeaning of women and girls is NOT being judgemental
FGS

Can you please tell me how exactly a site is garanteed ro have nothing posted without a woman’s consent , no demeaning porn culture crap that shows women being treated as second class humans and no one underage
Sure there might be a few websites that meet ALL these criteria . How does one find them and how many men ( or women who support the industry ) do you think really care enough to look for them ????

OP it really seems like you don't think much of your husband. You describe him as an idiot. I'm feeling a fair amount of contempt in your descriptions of him - it sounds like you feel he is a weak character and it is your job to get him on the straight and narrow again and sort him out. And if he just listens to you and does the right thing he can become a better man and the one you know he is capable of being. Well that's just unrealistic and a lot of pressure to put on another person. Are you not worried he's self flagellating in an attempt to appease you?

This is worrying in itself no? It doesn't sound very balanced for a relationship.

@suggestionsplease1 As I said in a previous post, it's not a black and white situation. I do love my husband, we are friends, we parent as a team... There's lots of good stuff. But he has been an idiot in this. I think I'm justified in saying that. I'm sure other people call their husbands idiots over much less. He's lied to me and whether it's called an addiction or not, it's left me feeling hurt.
But I still have faith in him that he can come out the other side.
You say a lot of pressure. Well it's got to make or break time, so yeh, there has to be a certain amount of pressure if we don't want to break up our relationship and family. There's a lot to save.

His tearful words to me a few days ago... "I want to be free of this (addiction). I thought about losing you and (son's name), and me sitting alone in a flat looking at a photo of you both. That would break me." Some may be sceptical of his words there, but I need him to remember those words if he wants to seriously sort this out. I don't want a broken relationship.

Read this. It's disgraceful.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9669443/Heartbreaking-reality-teenage-girls-sex-life.html

@mag2305 But will he ever live up to your expectations? If this area is sorted, will there be something else to focus on?

Lying can also come about as a result of unrealistic expectations and a wish to keep the peace - of knowing there are standards you just can't live up to. It's a very big thing to feel you are always failing in your partner's eyes. (And I say that as someone whose unrealistic expectations for a partner contributed to low level lying, and then my complete loss of faith in them and the breakdown of that relationship.)

That’s the thing….it’s so extreme and readily available. It has normalised what were once extreme acts. As a young woman no boys ever expected anal sex, or choking etc. I’m amazed at what expectations men gave now. It’s given young men a warped view of what sex is IMO.

@suggestionsplease1 yeh, I get what you're saying and I guess that's the cycle we've been in. The thing is, my expectation is ultimately for him not to watch porn, and he's adamant he wants that too. I am realistic in that I know it could be an up and down road ahead but I also think he needs to know where I stand and where he stands.

Mag, I wasn't alluding to him perving over women, that's how it came across in the OP. I am confused by this thread though. Everyone looks at opposite sex. Everyone imagines People other than their partner when masterbating. So other than the porn issue the rest is just bog standard stuff nothing to worry about. As for the porn? Take his phone off him and bury it in the garden.

I hardly think you are being demanding and unrealistic OP- if it’s your dealbreaker-,then it’s yours and he either sorts the habit out if you matter that much or you are off— would people saying you were being harsh if he was an alcoholic- !!

@Baycitystroller

That’s the thing….it’s so extreme and readily available. It has normalised what were once extreme acts. As a young woman no boys ever expected anal sex, or choking etc. I’m amazed at what expectations men gave now. It’s given young men a warped view of what sex is IMO.

Exactly this.

I am not even mid-30s and when I was a teenager "porn" was a magazine of topless women, with their bum on show. Occasionally guys got hold of their dad's video which was usually a 20 minute story where the plumber came round to fix the washing machine and they ended up having very standard sex. It very rarely even showed close-ups of genitals.

That is NOTHING like what is now standard viewing amongst young teens on their mobile phones, which is violent abuse and degradation of women (and too often, girls).

I don’t think the porn would be my biggest issue. The gawping and drooling over women in public and actually admitting to masturbating over his ex’s and friends is the biggest concern here.

Porn isn’t great, especially if it’s being watched daily but the other things you mentioned are divorce worthy at least to me. If my DH acted like that I’d leave him. Your DH acts like a randy teenager, it’s pretty grim.

I think what I've realised on this thread is that...
Firstly, it's very hard to describe a situation or describe myself or my husband on something like this. Nobody here knows us in person, obviously. So I think how I've tried to put things across may have been elaborated on by others or misconstrued. And I don't mean the porn addiction. Maybe I'm just bad at explaining stuff.

Secondly, I've learnt that opinions vary so much. And actually what's surprised me the most from this is how the women who say they'd leave their partners instantaneously by the sounds of it. Everyone will have different acceptable boundaries of course, but as I've said this isn't black and white for me. Just shows how everyone's deal breakers will be different.
And thank you to @lovescaca for sharing your experience. Good to hear from someone who's also been in that situation but also tried to work through it too.

@mag2305

There are so many people that think a porn addiction is someone just being very horny. But it's totally not, there's a lot more too it. The amount of people that say uck there's worse stuff they could be doing than having a chug and watching porn x

My issue with pornhub is that it's full of crap aimed purely at men. The constant adverts that come up are gross. There is nothing sexy or arousing about any of it to me. I want something that's filmed beautifully and done with a bit of taste - not easy to find that on pornhub.

Most men watch porn because it's free and easy. If your OH says he doesn't he's probably lying - I was convinced mine didn't as that's what he told me (and he had no reason to lie as we'd watched it together before) but he still did lie about it.

Pornography is certainly not harmless and no, not all men watch regularly. I think the normalisation culture we have towards increasingly sexual images and references in general is actually very toxic. I think everything is just so accessible now, social media is full of it, music is full of it, the internet, adverts...it is like someone has switched a filter off.

Pornography specifically, aside from the exploitation issues (which are sadly very much a reality), below is an article about the changes porn can have to the dopamine reward system in the brain and the subsequent impact that can have on sexual function, relationships and self esteem:

neurosciencenews.com/neuroscience-pornography-brain-15354/amp/

For those who don't have a problem with their partners watching porn (which is your choice and right), it may be that it isn't a problem-until it becomes a problem. But don't write it off as harmless. It isn't.

In light of the current news articles about sexualisation and young girls being exposed to this vile stuff as young as 11 years old, being pressurised to act like women that young boys have seen on porn videos, I hate it even more.

I had a few dates with a man a good few years ago now and I knew there was something odd. I didn't know what, but I knew something wasn't right. He was arrested for possession of child porn and horse porn. Thin end of the wedge. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to have this normalised.

@Sandra15

In light of the current news articles about sexualisation and young girls being exposed to this vile stuff as young as 11 years old, being pressurised to act like women that young boys have seen on porn videos, I hate it even more.

I had a few dates with a man a good few years ago now and I knew there was something odd. I didn't know what, but I knew something wasn't right. He was arrested for possession of child porn and horse porn. Thin end of the wedge. It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to have this normalised.

Absolutely revolting and terrifying . I find it absolutely surreal when I hear people defending these disgusting sites that have ads with titles like barely legal as if somehow men really wish they could cross the line but because they can’t without risking jail , let’s just get as close as legally possible I mean wtaf - it’s pretty much implying men would if the law didn’t stop them . Very disturbing

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57428077

Clearly it’s a huge number.

@Mabelone that's really interesting. Although, it's kind of leaning towards the 'it's all fine' because half of the article is the sex therapist woman making it all 'normal and ok'. Kind of backs up my original thoughts for this thread.

It's annoyed me that it says half of UK adults watch porn, then split it into 16% women, 50% men
Women are still "UK adults" and the majority aren't watching porn. Half of men aren't either - so the "all men watch porn," mentality is incorrect.
Don't even get me started on how it's promoting OnlyFans