The 'all men watch porn' mentality

[mag2305]

I've been looking for support in different places recently as my husband is battling a porn addiction. I've looked at various support groups, articles, videos, etc, and also, forum threads like on Mumsnet. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions on porn, fair enough. But I'm also amazed by the number of women who are adament that they're 'totally OK with it'... It's normal'. Of course, women may enjoy porn themselves whilst in a relationship, although through my research I know it's a lot less than men and I wonder if women get addicted in the numbers that men do.

My experience... I've been with my husband for 4 years. His porn addiction goes back to his teenage years. Alongside this, he has also had depression and anxiety for many years so was vulnerable to something like porn addiction. I only found out about his porn use half way into our relationship. For him, when it's bad, it's been frequent watching at times, daily. Also at times when he's particularly low. He's lied about it over and over again but has also had more honest times where he's said what a battle it is in his mind. From my perspective, it's warped his mind. He looks at other women a lot as we walk/drive along and has said he gets arousing thoughts. If he doesn't watch porn, he feels compelled to masturbate. Maybe this is OK in moderation but again, it's been frequent, and he's also masturbated to thoughts of our female friends and his exs. OK, this is a fantasy type thing but added to the porn, it's not a great situation.

This has had such a damaging impact on our marriage. I wonder how many other people could say the same? Are some women just in denial that porn, etc isn't a problem?

Morally, my personal position is that I hate it. It's a horrible industry with many sad stories behind the scenes. Degrades both women and men.
And strangely enough, my husband hates a lot of it too but doesn't allow himself to think about it in that way. Is it entertainment or a corruption of mind, body and soul? As a mum to a little boy, I would hate to think of him watching porn in his early teens and getting hooked into it. Thinking that it's all normal stuff and that's what real sex is like.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post but I suppose I'm just surprised by the number of women who are 'OK with it'.

@roberta268 I think you'll find that statement not only generalising but incorrect.
I've had wild sex, I've had monotonous sex. Both long term and short. I've found no correlation with porn, however again, I can understand the point against porn addiction with a certain character of person

@baileys6904 people will share their opinions no matter what I called the post. In all honesty, I don't know what I wanted out of mumsnet. In some ways it's all confused me more. I know what I think and feel is what truly matters in my situation. But I suppose because I'm heavily pregnant, not able to talk to friends at the moment and have had a shit load of stress in the last week over my husband, I just wanted to reach out. I know others will have different views but maybe I just wanted to spill out my troubled mind somewhere. My comments probably sound all over the place. All I can say is, life is very stressful right now.

@mag2305 my heart really does go out to you.

One thing I can say is, don't mistake or excuse shit behaviour because of porn addiction. Addiction to porn doesn't mean you have to put up with degrading comments, wandering eyes or a partner that's not bringing you the happiness you and you child (ren) deserve. I'm happy to say I don't have an issue to porn, however I would have an issue with the behaviour your describing. That's not porn's fault, that's cos he's an arsehole.

Giving something a label takes the whole responsibility bit out of it-oh it's not his fault, he's a narcissist, oh uts not his fault, he's a sex addict etc etc. He still has choices. As do you.

A happy single mum is a bazillion times better than a miserable married one. If he was addicted to Agatha Christie, you wouldn't excuse him wondering around knocking folk off. I did some research on gaming-hours spent, aggression etc. Although there were individuals that did, for example, perform mass shootings after playing a game, or neglect their child due to playing a rpg etc, the majority can understand the difference between real life and fantasy.

You deserve better OP

It’s all emerging science, but none of it looks positive. @baileys6904

Such as this one (I know it’s in time but it was from an OK Germany study)

A new study finds that men who watch a lot of pornography tend to have less gray matter volume as well as less activity in the region of the brain linked to rewards.

time.com/135853/porn-brain/ There is more and I am science background so know these aren’t just pseudo studies.

In essence a lot of the recent research into porn shows similar reduction in some key cognitive processes similar to addiction. The executive functions are impaired.

There is worrying research particularly on teenagers which shows that there is a hard wiring for sexual response if they watch a lot of porn which mucks them up for RL sex.

@baileys6904

. www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3402/snp.v3i0.20767
. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26305628/
. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24871202/
. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-018-0176-z
. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/

Just a handful of the studies conducted on how porn affects the brain. I hope I haven't broken any MN rules by linking them!

This short video also summarises studies that showed that porn use desensetizes males to female pain, reduces their empathy and leaves them more likely to have sexually violent and paedophillic desires:

Honestly OP, ethical considerations about porn use aside, to my mind you're coming across as a bit controlling here. Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick but it sounds like you are eliciting confessions from him and this could be increasing his sense of shame. Obviously I don't know how those conversations are taking place where he reveals all. You control all electronic gadgets at home and he's under an ultimatum that he loses his family unless he gets this sorted for once and for all. Now you're wondering how you should tackle the issue of his possible masturbation even if he's not using porn. His body his choice no? And it sounds like you want to police his thoughts during masturbation as well. I find it strange that he's revealed what he thinks about on these occasions but that makes me wonder if confessions have been elicited or did he just tell you randomly? Which would seem strange if he did.

You control all electronic gadgets at home and he's under an ultimatum that he loses his family unless he gets this sorted for once and for all.

I get that his body, his masturbation (as long as it’s not to pictures of the Ex, spending a good chunk of the day at it and affecting their sex life).

However it is her husband who is the one pushing all the boundaries. People who are controlling push your boundaries for you. OP is just trying to rein it in, and this level of Porn I’d also be wanting it sorted or seriously thinking about the marriage. It’s like they are having an affair with ghosts on the internet. Controlling the electronics is fine but I’d have thought it’s only the WiFi she needs to control.

It’s like someone who drinks, you don’t leave lots of bottles of wine around.

Also quite interested in the source of porn is bad for the brain?? Two psychology degrees, and I've never yet come across that one....

I posted the first in a two-part series on porn research, including individual and social effects, being explained by a psychologist. She links to all her sources.

It's a niche area of research and, like much of psychology, does have many areas that are part of the replication "crisis" and isn't meant to be taken as a X automatically leads to Y as media that reports on it tends to put it as. It's part of a layering of risk factors towards certain things, fed into by wider social systems.

an ultimatum that he loses his family unless he gets this sorted for once and for all

You really think that someone saying they won't stay with their partner if they don't tackle their addiction is controlling? No one is obligated to stay with an addict.

it sounds like you are eliciting confessions from him and this could be increasing his sense of shame

I find it strange that he's revealed what he thinks about on these occasions

Perhaps because he wanted to be honset with his wife about the full extent of his addiction? You really think OP is controlling him and forcing him to say things he doesn't want to say? That's pretty melodramatic. Part of tackling addiction is being honest about it and tacking accountability for it. Addicts owe it to their partners to be honset about the full extent of the addiction, so that they can make an informed decision about whether they want to stay or not.

Men watching porn regularly is fine, as long as it doesn't encourage them to hanker after certain acts in real life that they see, cause them to see women as suppliers rather than participators, see sex as something a man does 'to' a woman, rather than 'with' a woman, cause them to be consumed by their own pleasure, start seeing women as objects rather than respected equals, and end up believing that how it's done on there, is how women generally like it.
Unfortunately, men who watch a lot of porn, often display at least a few of the above traits, it does affect them, and women can tell by how they go about their sex lives, and daily lives, just how affected they are and who they are, they are kidding nobody.
I suppose the only answer then, is to vote with your feet. Why should any woman have to put up with substandard treatment?
So, either find a man who is not the least bit affected by watching porn ( a rare bread, but some may exist) or not affected because they don't watch it in the first place. Give others a wide birth, don't hope they will change into what you want.

@Opentooffers I’m genuinely interested as I just don’t get it. Why is watching porn regularly fine?

I just don’t think it’s good on so many levels I really struggle to think it’s fine in any way. I started off life thinking it was OK, because I hadn’t thought about the issues. Now I see many. One of them being hurt and rejected by a man who wasn’t even an avid porn watcher, but did it while I was pregnant when frankly I needed his attentions on me the most. And the other is knowing at least two people who have been in porn. Soft porn I guess - and would have at the time sworn it was fine/empowering but now later in life admit it did them harm.

@suggestionsplease1 I think the difference is between being controlling and taking some control of a bad situation and I'm trying to do the latter. Once I found out about my husband's porn issues, it did lead me to ask questions. So yeh, I found out some stuff that way. But when someone's lied to you, I feel, that you need all cards on the table and to know exactly what you're dealing with.
The only area I don't know about is him masturbating to old memories of his ex, he doesn't have any secret photos of her. That I do know. Apart from a couple of regular Facebook ones which are totally normal and harmless. The other thing he said was that he'd masturbated thinking about one of my friends. Again, not photos or anything, just thoughts. He's quite an insecure, nervy sort of person. Wouldn't be the flirty sort at all. He doesn't stare at my friends, but does glance at other women as we drive along sometimes or walking by. In the scheme of things, I don't find that as troubling.
I can't control his thoughts, of course not. But I think the porn addition and lies have made me delve that bit further and need answers. If you don't know exactly what you're dealing with, you can't move forward.

@IJustWantSomeBees yes, exactly what you said in your last post. That's how it is.

@Opentooffers

Men watching porn regularly is fine, as long as it doesn't encourage them to hanker after certain acts in real life that they see, cause them to see women as suppliers rather than participators, see sex as something a man does 'to' a woman, rather than 'with' a woman, cause them to be consumed by their own pleasure, start seeing women as objects rather than respected equals, and end up believing that how it's done on there, is how women generally like it. Unfortunately, men who watch a lot of porn, often display at least a few of the above traits, it does affect them, and women can tell by how they go about their sex lives, and daily lives, just how affected they are and who they are, they are kidding nobody. I suppose the only answer then, is to vote with your feet. Why should any woman have to put up with substandard treatment? So, either find a man who is not the least bit affected by watching porn ( a rare bread, but some may exist) or not affected because they don't watch it in the first place. Give others a wide birth, don't hope they will change into what you want.

When I got together with my husband, I had no reason to think he watched porn. It was something he told me in the end because I was a bit suspicious over something 18 months into the relationship. There was nothing beforehand. How would you actually go about meeting someone and finding out whether they do or not?

I'm quite surprised you know all this- he's been very honest!

How do you all know your husbands don't watch porn? Do you watch them wank?

Out of interest why did he stop working with the first therapist?

@suggestionsplease1 He worked with him for 5 months and it started well but I think it became apparent that although he said he had experience in addiction therapy, it wasn't to any great extent. Plus, the therapist actually moved to Spain in the end so my husband had to stop with him.
The new therapist he has sounds a lot more direct and straight down the line. He specialises in addiction therapy.

I don't know if this makes the whole thing more embarrassing or strange, but my husband is actually a qualified counsellor himself, although not currently practising. They do say that counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc going into the profession to sort out their own issues. It's all so complex

Not all men, but most men watch porn to one extent or another. Too much use can easily become an issue.

@baileys6904

Were you not required to study gender issues as part of your psychology degrees . I certainly was and I know the research and studies on porn and the negative effects , not to mention the abuses towards women and girls were part of that.
I’d consider psychology qualifications without a good understanding of these issues concerning to say the least.

To derail this thread slightly, Dr Justin Coulson PhD has an excellent book ‘Miss Connection’ which explores teen boys who are overexposed to pornography and their inability to empathise with their sexual partners and why it is important to talk to teenage boys before seeing pornography for the first time.

@SparklingStars10
Well done you for exerting your parental control! Many don’t and that is where the problem lies.

@KeyboardMash

Me too. Masturbation is no big deal, but porn is horrible, exploitative and so... narrow, if that makes sense. My husband doesn't watch porn and I know he doesn't. (And I can hear a lot of misguided people saying "he does, they all do, you just don't know about it" - but I do know and he doesn't.) I think the extent to which it impacts them is proportional to how much they watch, and occasional use probably doesn't do too much damage. But to me it's on the same spectrum as strip clubs and prostitution - the lesser end of that spectrum, but I still couldn't ever be 'fine' with it.

Those people who insist all men do it are just trying to normalise it and make themselves feel better if they know their own partner loves watching women be degraded. No woman who supports porn can call herself a feminist.

You can tell if a man doesn't watch porn... the sex and the way they relate to women is very different and more loving rather than being treated as a piece of meat.

@premium77

Such an outdated argument about the industry that i see frequently on MN. I can only assume that it is used as a trump card to discredit anyone who may disagree with them. The trust is, most porn nowadays is amateur porn which features regular people/couples that choose to upload their content for fun and monetary gain. Only the big productions are produced by companies. Contemporary platforms like only fans allow creators to be their own boss and dictate their own careers.

To be clear, I know how destructive porn addiction can be. I would hate to date a man who is/was addicted to porn because — just as sex addiction — it can warp their sense of reality and ruin lives.

However, to lump all consumption of porn as some seedy industry is just such a naive and shallow perspective. As if all the female sex workers are hopeless damsels in distress without a discernible grasp on how they’re being objectified. Just throwing a theory out there: could it be that sex workers enjoy sex and therefore choose to pursue a lucrative career in it? Could it be that women are aware that men objectify their body so they find a way to reclaim back that power by capitalising on it?

I think a lot women attribute porn-watching as the root of their relationship problems, but the reality is men can still be devious in other ways — ogling other women, overtly flirtatious, emotional affairs, prostitution — need I go on? It is impossible to restrict how men fulfil their desires, because if they want to, sure enough they will. They’ll just become more creative about ways to find it and hide it.

I should note that I absolutely understand why many women have a boundary of no porn watching. That’s their god given right! But what I don’t like is this inference that those men who abide by it are morally superior or a more faithful and committed strain of men. It’s simply not true. Porn addiction is very different to recreational porn watching. Just as social drinking is very different to being alcohol dependant.

How can you be sure they're a real amateur couple? How can you be sure they're both over the age of 18? How can you be sure one of them wasn't coerced into doing it, if they're doing it for monetary gain? How can you be sure it's consensual? Can anything sexual be consensual if you're doing it for monetary gain? You seem incredibly naive.

@washingtofold aww thanks for being concerned but it's unwarranted. I would have thought gender issues would be more a sociology thing?? Nice of you to presume my areas of research and study though, especially with my MSc being the only course in the UK to specialise, but I digress.
For research that state there is correlation, there are studies that say not. Meta analysis which should give a comparative overview also disagree. www.utsa.edu/today/2020/08/story/pornography-sex-crimes-study.html
Porn has been around centuries in one way or another and if the case all viewers turned into sex crazed monsters incapable of being responsible for their own behaviour, we would live in a shitter world than we are now.
That's said, that doesn't lessen the pain of the OP and I reiterate, there is a big difference between porn viewing and porn addiction.
BTW @touma, why do you expect someone to respect your point of view and yet make personal jibes to them. Why would @premium77 be naive, just because they don't agree with you? How many sex workers have you spoken to exactly?