The 'all men watch porn' mentality

[mag2305]

I've been looking for support in different places recently as my husband is battling a porn addiction. I've looked at various support groups, articles, videos, etc, and also, forum threads like on Mumsnet. Everyone has their own experiences and opinions on porn, fair enough. But I'm also amazed by the number of women who are adament that they're 'totally OK with it'... It's normal'. Of course, women may enjoy porn themselves whilst in a relationship, although through my research I know it's a lot less than men and I wonder if women get addicted in the numbers that men do.

My experience... I've been with my husband for 4 years. His porn addiction goes back to his teenage years. Alongside this, he has also had depression and anxiety for many years so was vulnerable to something like porn addiction. I only found out about his porn use half way into our relationship. For him, when it's bad, it's been frequent watching at times, daily. Also at times when he's particularly low. He's lied about it over and over again but has also had more honest times where he's said what a battle it is in his mind. From my perspective, it's warped his mind. He looks at other women a lot as we walk/drive along and has said he gets arousing thoughts. If he doesn't watch porn, he feels compelled to masturbate. Maybe this is OK in moderation but again, it's been frequent, and he's also masturbated to thoughts of our female friends and his exs. OK, this is a fantasy type thing but added to the porn, it's not a great situation.

This has had such a damaging impact on our marriage. I wonder how many other people could say the same? Are some women just in denial that porn, etc isn't a problem?

Morally, my personal position is that I hate it. It's a horrible industry with many sad stories behind the scenes. Degrades both women and men.
And strangely enough, my husband hates a lot of it too but doesn't allow himself to think about it in that way. Is it entertainment or a corruption of mind, body and soul? As a mum to a little boy, I would hate to think of him watching porn in his early teens and getting hooked into it. Thinking that it's all normal stuff and that's what real sex is like.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post but I suppose I'm just surprised by the number of women who are 'OK with it'.

I have evenmore of an issue with amateur porn not less of an issue— how can you know the situation behind it— you can’t— I have a friend who was filmed without consent by a guy frequently and was utterly devastated. Hidden cameras and all that— to anyone casually viewing it wouldn’t sure look perfectly legit

@maskface212 I'm very straight down the line with my husband. He knows how I feel. He knows how much importance I put on trust, openness and communication. But yes, ultimately, it's his responsibility over how he chooses to behave. He has recently started with a new addiction counsellor and at least, it's a positive step forward. We have a young child and another on the way. There's a lot riding on our marriage working. Do I want porn to be the reason it ended? No!

@baileys6904 you're right, lots of things are individual choice. I think the point many of us are making is that lots of people don't see the bigger picture with the porn industry, or perhaps choose not to see it. Again that's also an individual choice but what sparked this post was the number of women I read about on forums being 'ok' with their other halves watching porn or other women trying to convince them it's OK. Those people seemed to outweigh the people who didn't like it. That just surprised me and got me wondering why. Are that many women really OK with it?!

It would also be interesting to know what position women's opinions are coming from? I think anyone that's had a partner with true porn addition will have understanding for others in the same position.
Are an individual's views on this based on whether they're single, married, have children, have no sex life, have been emotionally hurt in a relationships, feminist views... etc. I'm just interested.

I did post saying I'd been in a relationship with a "porn addict". Although where the boundary is between addiction and just straightforward entitlement is hard to understand.

@QuentinBunbury that's true and I suppose that boundary might be different for everyone. For my husband, I think the frequent use and lies about it tips it into being an addiction. Plus the levels he's gone to, like on occasion watching it with me a few feet away in the same room then going into the bathroom. I see that as being pretty desperate and something which then made him feel horrible about himself.

Since I’ve opened up the can of words, I guess I’ll start as I mean to go on.

I am a woman. I used to watch porn frequently (2-3 videos a week) in my teens (when I was a virgin) and in early 20s because I was curious and wanted to learn about sex. Now in my late 20s I watch porn (maybe 2 videos a month) recreationally. Am I misogynistic?

Let me answer that for you, no. I am also fiercely loyal in relationships. I can only speak for myself that my porn watching has no impact on my relationships with men. It doesn’t increase/decrease my libido, nor does it have an impact on my performance or what I’m into. I don’t go down a black whole of sexual niches and deviances. I simply watch it when I’m in the mood, with no harm done.

If you read what I wrote carefully you would have seen that I don’t disagree with the anti-porn stance entirely. There are absolutely exploitative parts to the porn industry. I just don’t align with the commentary that all porn is exploitative and all men who watch it are misogynistic.

However , lets unpack this ‘research’ you have acquired. Have you actually been on porn hub? Or do you even know if any only fans creators? Or by ‘research’ do you mean that you type into google ‘everything wrong with the porn industry’ and form your unwavering argument from there. Because surely you are aware that like every socialist debate there is ‘research’ to support every argument — depending what side you’re on. For example, I could probably conduct a study that most women who post anti-porn views on Mumsnet are either 35+, or came from conservative backgrounds or have self-esteem issues and my hunch is that I’d be right but it’s only ‘research’ after all...

If you actually went onto porn hub you would see that 75% of content is literally independent channels of mostly couples/individuals posting their sex tapes. Within those channels many post bios detailing their background and link their socials. Im not, however, claiming that there aren’t shady things going on behind the scenes in some cases. But can’t that be said for life in general?

Very few big productions actually get any viewing. I also encourage you to go and research a lot of these top porn stars who work for the traditional production companies as well as producing content independently too: Riley Reid, Lana Rhodes and Lena the plug would be a good place to start in terms of big names. Have a look what they have to say , straight from the horses mouth. Or does that not align with the ‘research’ you collate to fit your narrative that all porn is exploitative?

You just sound very closed minded to think that some women can’t actually have a liberal attitude towards sex. Open relationships, polyamorous relationships, non-binary relationships are only on the rise. It is a pre-war concept to think that sex should only be shared between a man and woman and be kept behind closed doors. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not everyone thinks like you. That doesn’t make them wrong or uneducated.

If you don’t want to date a man that watches porn that’s your prerogative and your right. Just like I don’t want to date a man who smokes. Or a vegan might not want to date a meat-eater. It’s for you to find a suitable partner who aligns with your life choices. But it’s not for you to criticise someone’s choices that don’t align with yours. If a vegan started chewing your ear about how ‘exploitative’ the meat industry and complied (no doubt, compelling) ‘research’ about the mistreatment of animals I’m sure you’d be pretty astounded by their discoverings — but when all is said and done, would you give up meat?

Not going to carry on responding as I’m not a fan of spending my precious Sunday screaming into space. I accept all your arguments and think every single one is valid. However, MN can often feels like an echo-chamber with very little room for free thought. Life is not a one size fits all.

And that was for all those that responded to my comment. Sorry for hijacking your post OP. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

@premium77

Since I’ve opened up the can of words, I guess I’ll start as I mean to go on.

I am a woman. I used to watch porn frequently (2-3 videos a week) in my teens (when I was a virgin) and in early 20s because I was curious and wanted to learn about sex. Now in my late 20s I watch porn (maybe 2 videos a month) recreationally. Am I misogynistic?

Let me answer that for you, no. I am also fiercely loyal in relationships. I can only speak for myself that my porn watching has no impact on my relationships with men. It doesn’t increase/decrease my libido, nor does it have an impact on my performance or what I’m into. I don’t go down a black whole of sexual niches and deviances. I simply watch it when I’m in the mood, with no harm done.

If you read what I wrote carefully you would have seen that I don’t disagree with the anti-porn stance entirely. There are absolutely exploitative parts to the porn industry. I just don’t align with the commentary that all porn is exploitative and all men who watch it are misogynistic.

However , lets unpack this ‘research’ you have acquired. Have you actually been on porn hub? Or do you even know if any only fans creators? Or by ‘research’ do you mean that you type into google ‘everything wrong with the porn industry’ and form your unwavering argument from there. Because surely you are aware that like every socialist debate there is ‘research’ to support every argument — depending what side you’re on. For example, I could probably conduct a study that most women who post anti-porn views on Mumsnet are either 35+, or came from conservative backgrounds or have self-esteem issues and my hunch is that I’d be right but it’s only ‘research’ after all...

If you actually went onto porn hub you would see that 75% of content is literally independent channels of mostly couples/individuals posting their sex tapes. Within those channels many post bios detailing their background and link their socials. Im not, however, claiming that there aren’t shady things going on behind the scenes in some cases. But can’t that be said for life in general?

Very few big productions actually get any viewing. I also encourage you to go and research a lot of these top porn stars who work for the traditional production companies as well as producing content independently too: Riley Reid, Lana Rhodes and Lena the plug would be a good place to start in terms of big names. Have a look what they have to say , straight from the horses mouth. Or does that not align with the ‘research’ you collate to fit your narrative that all porn is exploitative?

You just sound very closed minded to think that some women can’t actually have a liberal attitude towards sex. Open relationships, polyamorous relationships, non-binary relationships are only on the rise. It is a pre-war concept to think that sex should only be shared between a man and woman and be kept behind closed doors. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not everyone thinks like you. That doesn’t make them wrong or uneducated.

If you don’t want to date a man that watches porn that’s your prerogative and your right. Just like I don’t want to date a man who smokes. Or a vegan might not want to date a meat-eater. It’s for you to find a suitable partner who aligns with your life choices. But it’s not for you to criticise someone’s choices that don’t align with yours. If a vegan started chewing your ear about how ‘exploitative’ the meat industry and complied (no doubt, compelling) ‘research’ about the mistreatment of animals I’m sure you’d be pretty astounded by their discoverings — but when all is said and done, would you give up meat?

Not going to carry on responding as I’m not a fan of spending my precious Sunday screaming into space. I accept all your arguments and think every single one is valid. However, MN can often feels like an echo-chamber with very little room for free thought. Life is not a one size fits all.

I am forever amazed by this concept that watching other people have sex can ever constitute being faithful in a monogamous relationship. Would you be comfortable with your partner paying a woman to masturbate in front of him? If not, why is porn any different?

I assure you that none of us are in an echo chamber. It is simply that when you open your eyes to all of the research, statistics and studies, it is impossible to lie to yourself anymore and say that porn is not harmful. It is all on the internet should you wish to find it.

Or does that not align with the ‘research’ you collate to fit your narrative that all porn is exploitative?

It isn't 'research', it's research. Literal scientific research. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean it's fake. And it has already been acknowledged that there are a minority of privileged women (usually white, middle-class) who are in the industry purely by choice and make tons of money from it. They are not representative of all of the women and children who make up the industry though.

You just sound very closed minded to think that some women can’t actually have a liberal attitude towards sex. Open relationships, polyamorous relationships, non-binary relationships are only on the rise. It is a pre-war concept to think that sex should only be shared between a man and woman and be kept behind closed doors. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not everyone thinks like you. That doesn’t make them wrong or uneducated.

^ None of this is related to porn. What's your point?

And for what it's worth, I'm a 22 year old woman from a progressive liberal background.

And I also don't have 'self-esteem issues', though I do enjoy hearing this misogynistic insult hurled at women who are ethically opposed to porn.

'You're just jealous of pornstars!!!!' nah, I just care about human rights.

I used to consider myself accepting of occasional porn use, I'm not saying I was ecstatic at the idea of my partners watching it but I accepted that exploration of sexuality can be healthy and I myself watched it on occasion so I considered this somewhat normal.

I recently discovered my DH has a porn addiction, however, and now I cannot even bare the topic of conversation. I clicked on this thread because I seen that you are facing something similar OP and I don't know about you but I feel so lost in real life because it just isn't a well represented issue. I would never dare speak to my friends about it because I am terrified of people judging me or my partner. It is one of the hardest addictions to address because nobody speaks about it and the people who do are distracted a lot of the time by the ethics and implications of the industry itself. Which is a relevant conversation but it doesn't help the pain of facing the addiction or your partners addiction.

I don't know what I'm even trying to say other than I'm sorry you're facing this at the moment. I recently had a baby and I feel like I've been living a lie and no longer know my DH. My self esteem has been obliterated and my heart is broken. H is a shadow of himself. Like your partner, he is seeing a therapist but not having anyone to talk to for support is soul destroying.

I'll never be oblivious to the potential hazards of porn consumption again and I feel concern for the kids growing up where they have unlimited access via the internet as it is no longer the same as a dirty magazine under the bed. Teenagers brains are being physically altered before they are even exposed to real relationships and in the same way it would be if they were experimenting with drugs.

Look after yourself OP

No wonder you don't like it when it's so excessive and time consuming and all the other stuff added in you know about your friends and women you drive past. I think its more than just a porn addiction he has.

I think your opinions and feelings towards pornography are probably going to be different because of the experiences you have had with your partner. I would not describe your partner's behaviour as normal porn usage or normal sexual behaviour full stop. Looking at random women in the street and having sexual thoughts about them, having intrusive sexual fantasies about friends etc is not normal sexual behaviour.

I do believe the majority of men look at porn occasionally, I do believe the majority of men masturbate regularly. I don't believe the majority of men display the extreme behaviour your own partner does.

@LookingThroughYourEyes

I'm really sorry to hear this Looking, and you're right, I didn't acknowledge that one of the issues with pornography is the effect it has on the user's partner, which can be soul-destroying. So much evidence of how women's mental health is being negatively affected by the normalisation of it all.

Please talk to someone if you can, there are lots of support groups for women who have porn-addicted partners.

And congratulations on your new arrival

The poster who said her research would show most of us on MN who aren’t keen on it are over35 or have self esteem issues— does the fact we are over 35 mean our opinion then is no longer relevant ? Because it might actually be that whilst many of us when younger just accepted and put up with stuff whilst we had young families that we realise we aren’t actually ok with— I have an acquaintance who to be frank doesn’t really care what her H gets up to so long as as she has a lovely home, a flash car and plenty of cash. She sees it very much as a commercial arrangement — so a porn watching Hubbie wouldn’t be remotely an issue— a partner without a good well paid job would be. I personally care about someone’s ethics and morals if I’m married to them, it’s part of the deal— I get the feeling many women and particularly younger women simply wouldn’t care about those aspects if the lifestyle was good — hence why you have them doing Only Fans— it isn’t in my opinion something to admire or think ‘good on them ‘ — It’s a very slippery slope .

@Crikeyalmighty I think you've made some really good points. I have questioned myself a bit on why so many women appear to be accepting of porn. But actually thinking about it carefully, where are they coming from in their lives.

The 20 something women who are very accepting, all embracing and liberal may feel differently when they're the 30, 40 somethings who are in longer term relationships, married, children, etc. As I've learnt the implications of porn use can be awful.

Me too @mag2305. I simply don’t want sex with him anymore. Mine doesn’t know that I know because I kept my powder dry— he does however know my feelings on the subject because I’ve worked it into conversation when watching things that touched on the subject. Occasional I could just about cope with- 5 times a week the minute I’m out the door- that’s not needs its’ wants’ — I haven’t left as in a funny position to do so , but certainly I may do so at some point.

I personally wouldn’t put up with my DH watching porn.
If he wants to watch it he’s free to leave.

My husband had an unhealthy relationship with porn that he minimises to this day and blames it on OCD/ anxiety. It coloured my opinion of myself as a woman to the point that I’ve had an affair with a man who made me feel loved and respected. That came out and I am now separated . Not condoning what I did but I am now vilified by family and friends as being the cause of our marriage breakdown when in fact porn was one of the drivers. I could never tell people this as I feel a deep sense of shame for his porn addiction.
Each to their own and I’m sure it’s ok in moderation, but it appears that some find it easier to moderate than others.

@IJustWantSomeBees I just read through your comments and totally agree. Thank you for your insight.

@LookingThroughYourEyes I totally understand where you're coming from too and can empathise. Please feel free to message me if you ever want to talk about it as I think it can be very isolating for the partners (us). Happy to offer some support.
I have talked about my husband's problems with some of my friends but that's not an easy thing to do and I do worry about what they think.
I hope things get better for you too. Especially with a little one. I have a 2 year old and another one due in a few weeks, so I understand what it's like dealing with this and having babies too.

Take care xx

A few people have said that they would tell their partners to leave if they thought they watched porn. I do get that but it's not always that simple. My husbands porn addiction is a major problem and a weakness in his life. It's caused lying and consequently my mistrust of him. That's probably the worst part in many ways.
However, we do love each other, we are friends, we're a team at parenting (mostly) and we have our little family to think about.
The porn use and lies have hurt me deeply and I have to look after myself in all this too, but I also don't want everything we do have, to be ruined by porn. My husband has no choice but to beat this now. He knows that he will lose everything if he doesn't.

It doesn't matter what other people's opinions may or may not be OP, what matters is your opinions and your boundaries.

For me occasional porn use is acceptable as long as it's not anything violent, distasteful or illegal. Someone who oggles passers by and masturbates over them, deprives me of a sex life to masturbate over porn, and masturbates over my friends is a massive no-no and I would be turned off to the point of no return.

Im sorry to say this but he sounds like a cushion humping hound with no self control or brain activity outside of sex and that for me would be repulsive on every level.

I genuinely hope it works out for you. If you're not already I strongly advise you to put any further children after this one on hold and secure your financial independence ASAP, as these things don't tend to end well.

Best of luck.

Take the porn away.
He has lied, (maybe used family money to access it ?), and he has lost your trust.
Do you want to continue the marriage knowing that ? It sounds like you do and that’s fine, but just be careful as addicts can often get rid of an addiction but replace it with another.
Sort yourself out financially for you and the kids, just in case it all goes wrong in the future.
Hopefully it won’t, but be prepared if it does.

@DinosaurDiana and @Closetbeanmuncher
You both have a point. My husband has behaved in a way that is disrespectful and hurtful. But is it a deal breaker at this point?! That, I don't know yet. I also feel that you've elaborated on what I've said, no family money has been used. Please don't make up stuff on my behalf.

I appreciate your financial advice but also find it quite amusing that you probably both assumed that because I'm the woman, that I'm the one who needs to sort myself out financially. My husband would lose everything if I told him to go. I've always earnt more money, had my own account, own the house, and bought it before I met him, all in my name, all legally sorted. So he stands to lose more than I do.

This thread was on female viewpoints and experiences of porn use and addiction. Not advice on whether I should leave my husband and whether my finances are sorted. Thank you but no thank you.