Friend confessed she physically abuses husband

[whatamess101]

Looking for some advice on how to deal with this situation. A close friend has a very volatile relationship with her husband. They've always argued a lot (been together about 15 years) and been on and off until they had children. She struggles through life and has mental health problems that she hasn't addressed. I found out from her recently that she hits her husband when they argue but he doesn't retaliate. Last night she text me that they had a physical fight (I don't know if it was two way) in front of their children.

She's always been a very good friend to me and is always kind and caring to other people. I want to help her but I find this behaviour shocking and unacceptable. She wants me to make her feel better, that's it's normal and she's not in the wrong but I can't do that. I know that he pushes her to her limits emotionally and suspect he gaslights her. I just don't know how to help her and I'm really worried about her children witnessing violence like this. Any advice?

Shocked at the apologists in here that the little woman is justified in abusing the big nasty man

Oh dear, apologies then. The only time I ever felt like hitting someone was when I was in an abusive relationship and he was just so incredibly obtuse.

The thing is that whatever the rights and wrongs of it, their relationship is toxic and they need to separate asap, especially for the sake of the children.

@Charliebradbury

The people excusing the husband are probably the same people who can't possibly believe my little 4ft 10 mother is abusive towards my dad. She often says that he makes her do it, that he belittles her and makes her lose control. None of this is true. She is manipulative and frankly horrible. It was a terrifying situation to grow up in, and she did abuse us as well though in much more subtle ways but still a few slaps here and there. I hope the plan leads to the children getting some support.

My mum was also horrifically abusive. She worked in a good job with vulnerable people for 40 years. She's well liked and respected in her local community yet I watched her break a curtain rail over my sister's back when she was 10. She had to be physically prevented from drowning my sibling in the bath because she didn't want her hair washed.

She made out that she was a victim because my dad was an alcoholic. She played at being the stoic and she had lots of sympathy, much like here. We as children, were even asked what we were doing to make her hit us. She was and still is very manipulative and I have been blacklisted because I call her out on her behaviour. She doesn't understand why I'm NC with her.

This is really difficult because it's wrong that your friend is hitting her partner, but I have been in a situation where its the only reaction I had in me. I had pretty bad pnd, my partner is pretty shut off emotionally and doesn't react normally to a lot of things (due to his upbringing). He had a pretty serious gambling problem, he left us several times with no money and 2 kids to feed and would gaslight me and lie to me constantly. It's so hard to describe, but his attitude and the way he would constantly try and make me feel like I was unreasonable, or try and make me believe I was crazy and forgetting things or losing money. I would literally feel like my blood was boiling, and I would slap him and hit him.
I am better now, I don't do that anymore, my partner has calmed down with the gambling. He still lies sometimes, but his attitude is also better, but in all honesty I think if it had carried on I would have had a nervous breakdown. I would have people phoning me for money he owed them, him just being a total dick and basically expecting me to just accept that he had put us in positions where we didn't know if we could buy shopping that week. I was just so stressed and angry all the time. He was the cause of my pnd. He was so unsupportive with the baby, just carried on with his life as he always had. I was left alone all the time, and my baby was really really hard work.
I wasn't hunting him out to abuse him, It wasn't sustained or planned attacks, I would just get to a point where I just lost the plot. I NEVER hit my children. I can't tell you why that was the way my anger came out, it just was. It wasn't right, but at the time I just wanted to hurt him the way he was hurting me.
I know that all sounds like excuses but I'm just trying to put out there that sometimes people just get to breaking point. I was basically being mentally and emotionally abused, and I was stuck in a cycle.

I'm a regular poster on here. I would just never admit the above with my usual name because I would be completely slated and told I was an abuser.

I think this blanket statement of "if you hit someone then you are the abuser" is a dangerous attitude to have. It will allow so many people to get away with emotional abuse, and allow them to push them to their limits and if that person loses control for a second and lashes out because they are being tormented, they emotional abuser will then have something else to hold over their victim. I've literally seen that happen. A woman, being mentally abused and threatened, lashes out once at a man up in her face, and she was arrested. She was too scared to go back to her own home and was homeless for a while, while the actual abuser stayed in the family home and told everyone she had been hitting him for years (not true).

@EarringsandLipstick

A lot of posters are saying 'imagine if it was the other way around'. I get the point being made but it's not as binary as that.

It really isn't the same, to compare every situation of partner violence with reversing the sexes.

This isn't excusing female abusers. And they do exist.

But there is a far higher likelihood of this relationship being abusive emotionally and mentally to the woman here. It is hard to imagine how that feels, and in general (note emphasis), that is perpetrated more by men to women.

It is not right. But her reacting physically to continued abuse can be understood & in the torture that that type of abuse is, can feel like the only option. (It's not right, again).

It isn't as easy as ' reverse the sexes'. A man has far more physical control, even without hurting his partner, than a woman. If a man was being emotionally abused by a woman who got in his space constantly, he can stop her without violence; a woman cannot, usually.

If he did start hitting her, that is more serious than a woman doing the same due to the physical imbalance of power.

I need to say that I am not justifying violence, saying that women can't be abusers or that men can't be victims of abuse. At all.

But the situation especially with emotional abuse and coercive control is very nuanced and very hard to understand if you haven't experienced it.

All of this. It really isn't just 'reverse the sexes' . The long term impact of emotional abuse, totally negation of yourself and /or coercive control is completely deranging. Extreme situations change people extremely.

However, none of us know the truth in this situation. And the situation is clearly toxic and damaging for everyone involved, especially the children who have absolutely no agency to control or remove themselves from this situation.

Something needs to be done to change this. Its best if your friend reaches out for support, and I would encourage her to do this. If she does not, I would report this situation (that is the situation, not her) myself but tell her in advance that you were doing this.

@Yellowdressbluedress

I think this blanket statement of "if you hit someone then you are the abuser" is a dangerous attitude to have. It will allow so many people to get away with emotional abuse, and allow them to push them to their limits and if that person loses control for a second and lashes out because they are being tormented, they emotional abuser will then have something else to hold over their victim. I've literally seen that happen. A woman, being mentally abused and threatened, lashes out once at a man up in her face, and she was arrested. She was too scared to go back to her own home and was homeless for a while, while the actual abuser stayed in the family home and told everyone she had been hitting him for years (not true).

Absolutely. There are men who use this as a tactic. I remember in infant school there was a girl who hated me and bullied she. One day she and her friends were following me around the play ground and calling me names. I snapped and turning around and pushed her. Her face lit up with delight and triumph and she rushed off to tell a teacher. I got punished and she stood and watched with complete gloating glee and victory. There are male abusers who absolutely use the same tactic. Once they have pushed a woman to hit them they know they have this as a lever over their victim. Suddenly their abuse is erased and she is the abuser and can't seek help or support.

There are male abusers who absolutely use the same tactic. Once they have pushed a woman to hit them they know they have this as a lever over their victim.

Reverse the sexes and that doesn't read well.

2) He/she made me do it < normal people walk away of the situation when they are angry rather than getting violent and attacking the other person

People in normal relationships can walk away and the other person will respect that. People in abnormal relationships can't walk away: they will be prevented or followed with screaming/ shouting and abuse. That's the difference between normal relationships and toxic/ abusive ones.

@User135644

There are male abusers who absolutely use the same tactic. Once they have pushed a woman to hit them they know they have this as a lever over their victim.

Reverse the sexes and that doesn't read well.

As stated above, you can't just reverse the sexes. There are different dynamics at play.

None of us know what is happening in this particular relationship.
But if you always say a woman who has hit a man is the abuser and he the victim, you may have just made yourself the tool of an abuser. To point to popular culture, that was one of the plot lines in the Helen/ Rob Archer's plot. And they did use woman's aid as advisors on their plot line.

Tell her to leave and sort herself out.

I’d report to social services. I’d also tell your friend that you are concerned about her and that she should tell a professional, a GP or social services just what she told you.

I knew someone who admitted hitting her husband once to me in an argument. I really felt that she was telling me so she could ‘normalise’ it which I believe is quite dangerous. It was one ‘slap’ apparently, at night when her child wasn’t there. I asked her to go to her GP or social services. She didn’t. I didn’t go to social services then, I phoned a social worker friend to advise me. She said to be very clear to this friend that this was wrong and to get help.

I kept quite a close eye on her and eventually did contact social services as I realised it was ongoing.

People in normal relationships can walk away and the other person will respect that. People in abnormal relationships can't walk away: they will be prevented or followed with screaming/ shouting and abuse. That's the difference between normal relationships and toxic/ abusive ones.

The above is very true.

However whether she really is the abuser or the abused - the most important course of action is the same. Alert an authority or professional. This has to be ‘aired’ outside of the home, the wheels of help or support need to be started.

I was in an abusive relationship for 11 years and I never lost control of myself so much i hit him. I left him and made a new life for myself. There is no excuse for physical or any kind of abuse. Especially when there are kids involved you need to report it to protect them

@Umberellatheweatha

It's a natural reaction to lash out when you feel threatened. Its terrifying to have a man up in your space being threatening let alone without having been gas lighted to within an inch of your sanity first as well. And if it comes down to your bodies fight or flight response and the other person makes you feel that you cant just leave, of course you could end up lashing out.

No one is saying it's ok. But if you haven't been in that situation it is difficult to explain to anyone.

I dont know if I would report her to ss just yet. I'd try to support her and get her out first. It looks like she is just starting to look to reach out for support and may want to leave him. I'd suggest practicing steps and if she didn't start taking them soon then I'd have a rethink about reporting. You don't want her to feel she cant trust her friends.

If I was going to report I would sit her down and suggest that she self report it first.

How long do you allow her to emotionally abuse her children before contacting ss?

I remember in infant school there was a girl who hated me and bullied she. One day she and her friends were following me around the play ground and calling me names. I snapped and turning around and pushed her.

So if that girl when she grew up bullied her husband and he snapped they'd be justification for him pushing her?

There is NEVER an excuse for violence from either sex.

@Onionsandmoreonions

I remember in infant school there was a girl who hated me and bullied she. One day she and her friends were following me around the play ground and calling me names. I snapped and turning around and pushed her.

So if that girl when she grew up bullied her husband and he snapped they'd be justification for him pushing her?

There is NEVER an excuse for violence from either sex.

If a woman abuses and bullies her husband over years and one day he snaps and pushes her, the context in which that happens means that we consider whether he is a normal person who snapped under extreme circumstances, rather than labelling him as a violent abuser, who will continue to be a risk to women in any relationship. Yes.

That is not excusing violence, but looking at the context to help to understand how the abuse occurred and therefore how we understand the person who used physical force/ violence.

Agree with pp, I'd be perfectly understanding of a man pushing away a woman in those particular circumstances. It's not ok, but it wouldn't make him an abuser.

I agree with the fact that SS can support the family whatever the true situation is and I don’t think people should jump to conclusions .

A friend of mine lived next door to a family and there were several occasions they heard the man physically abuse ( hit and push) his partner in front of the children . He shouted and threw her out etc etc and the children were also neglected . They saw him physically hurt her in the garden .

So they anonymously reported him . Unfortunately there was a mix up and they discovered it was my friend who reported him . What happened next was the female partner turned in them and they received weeks of abuse and stalking from her , things like standing outside their window and staring in and following them when they the house

Things got really bad and it ended up with them being physically attacked by both of the man and the woman and the police got involved . Then the family got moved .

They don’t regret reporting what was going on because the children were very young but it just shows whether male or female you don’t really know the full dynamics of the relationship or why things happen .

*So if that girl when she grew up bullied her husband and he snapped they'd be justification for him pushing her?

There is NEVER an excuse for violence from either sex.*

I honestly think that's bullshit.

If a man was to get up in my face and verbally abuse me, threaten me or try to intimidate me, you can bet your last penny I'll push him away, or give him a whack

I couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks about that. Verbal abuse and intimidation is not OK either.

And I would do the same to a woman.

Honestly, on here, no matter what the circumstances, the person who lifts a hand is always labeled the abuser!

Unfortunately violence is ingrained into our society, and has been since the beginning of time.

However whether she really is the abuser or the abused - the most important course of action is the same. Alert an authority or professional. This has to be ‘aired’ outside of the home, the wheels of help or support need to be started.

This with bells on. You really do need to contact SS about this, especially as their DC are witnessing the ongoing abuse.

What @EarringsandLipstick wrote is worth erasing again. And again.

As usual some trite lectures being dished out here. It is not a question of gender reversal but more about what is unfolding that prompts this.

I would suggest you consider reading up a bit more about these topics too.

breakthesilencedv.org/reactive-abuse-what-it-is-and-why-abusers-rely-on-it/

medium.com/@OwnYourReality/reactive-abuse-the-narcissists-trap-e87fb914c922

queenbeeing.com/what-is-reactive-abuse/

@whatamess101 you yourself have explicitly alluded to him being manipulative and pushing her to breaking point. What mental health’s truffles does she have and what has the person who has children with her been doing about it

I think you need to consider the very real possibility that this is not as clear cut as it seems

Nobody should ever condone violence but IF you are truly concerned about everybody concerned then don’t be so quick to jump to conclusions here.

The children might also be witnessing abuse of the other by the father if what you write is true.