Friend confessed she physically abuses husband

[whatamess101]

Looking for some advice on how to deal with this situation. A close friend has a very volatile relationship with her husband. They've always argued a lot (been together about 15 years) and been on and off until they had children. She struggles through life and has mental health problems that she hasn't addressed. I found out from her recently that she hits her husband when they argue but he doesn't retaliate. Last night she text me that they had a physical fight (I don't know if it was two way) in front of their children.

She's always been a very good friend to me and is always kind and caring to other people. I want to help her but I find this behaviour shocking and unacceptable. She wants me to make her feel better, that's it's normal and she's not in the wrong but I can't do that. I know that he pushes her to her limits emotionally and suspect he gaslights her. I just don't know how to help her and I'm really worried about her children witnessing violence like this. Any advice?

Surprised by some of these posts and the victim blaming. Imagine if it was the other way round - she pushed him to his limits and was gaslighting him, so he had no choice but to beat his wife...

Just because the victim is a male it doesn’t make it any better. Your friend is a husband beater and an abuser - her husband needs support, as do the children.

this is how she describes it, he makes her feel like she's going crazy and gets up into her personal space until she can't cope. I feel like she's quite vulnerable. It's a horrible situation.

If you haven't personally been in this situation, you can't imagine how this feels, and how much someone can be pushed to the limit.

The behaviour is toxic. The relationship is abusive from every angle.

I would support your friend, not report her

@Umberellatheweatha is excellent.

I would support your friend, not report her
I'd support her too, by bringing this out into the open so that it finally gets dealt with. Whatever it is; that's for the experts at social services to work out.

A lot of posters are saying 'imagine if it was the other way around'. I get the point being made but it's not as binary as that.

It really isn't the same, to compare every situation of partner violence with reversing the sexes.

This isn't excusing female abusers. And they do exist.

But there is a far higher likelihood of this relationship being abusive emotionally and mentally to the woman here. It is hard to imagine how that feels, and in general (note emphasis), that is perpetrated more by men to women.

It is not right. But her reacting physically to continued abuse can be understood & in the torture that that type of abuse is, can feel like the only option. (It's not right, again).

It isn't as easy as ' reverse the sexes'. A man has far more physical control, even without hurting his partner, than a woman. If a man was being emotionally abused by a woman who got in his space constantly, he can stop her without violence; a woman cannot, usually.

If he did start hitting her, that is more serious than a woman doing the same due to the physical imbalance of power.

I need to say that I am not justifying violence, saying that women can't be abusers or that men can't be victims of abuse. At all.

But the situation especially with emotional abuse and coercive control is very nuanced and very hard to understand if you haven't experienced it.

@MsHedgehog

Surprised by some of these posts and the victim blaming. Imagine if it was the other way round - she pushed him to his limits and was gaslighting him, so he had no choice but to beat his wife...

Just because the victim is a male it doesn’t make it any better. Your friend is a husband beater and an abuser - her husband needs support, as do the children.

Absolutely, am quite shocked at all the "he pushes her to assault him"

It is nuanced earrings but I still don't think its fair that from your above post your reasoning seems to be if she is being physically violent to him, its still because she feels he's done something? Apologies if lm wrong but thats what I've inferred.

I've had a long chat with Respect (thanks for the poster who suggested this) who have been extremely helpful and have helped me come up with a plan.

What is your plan?

It's a natural reaction to lash out when you feel threatened. Its terrifying to have a man up in your space being threatening let alone without having been gas lighted to within an inch of your sanity first as well. And if it comes down to your bodies fight or flight response and the other person makes you feel that you cant just leave, of course you could end up lashing out.

No one is saying it's ok. But if you haven't been in that situation it is difficult to explain to anyone.

I dont know if I would report her to ss just yet. I'd try to support her and get her out first. It looks like she is just starting to look to reach out for support and may want to leave him. I'd suggest practicing steps and if she didn't start taking them soon then I'd have a rethink about reporting. You don't want her to feel she cant trust her friends.

If I was going to report I would sit her down and suggest that she self report it first.

@PurpleDaisies I suspect if OP wanted to share the plan she would have.

Op glad you have some advice and a plan. Good luck.

Thank you for that helpful post @Sally872

*practical steps

Good to hear a plan has been made.

I’m disturbed at posters jumping to the conclusion that this guy is a victim pure and simple. Nothing else to see here. Abuse need not be physical, and op has clearly said she feels her friend is vulnerable and that she suspects the husband gaslights. None of us on here know enough to definitely conclude that there is no psychological abuse from him, and it is not victim-blaming to say that.

What do you all think social services will do? Take the kids away?

Whichever of them is the "worse" victim, the children are being subjected to an abusive environment with physical violence, and the parents have kept quiet about it so far whether out of fear, or shame, or whatever. What difference does it make which adult is playing which role, as long as professionals are brought in to help and outsiders are made aware that the children are at risk?

I’m disturbed at posters jumping to the conclusion that this guy is a victim pure and simple.

No one is jumping to that conclusion. The OPs friend is a self confessed husband beater. She admitted she hits her husband. That makes him a victim of domestic violence.

Maybe it isn't anyone's place, bar the professionals to judge who is victim and perpetrator? What ever role the people in that house play, it isn't healthy for anyone

It was the impression I got from some of the posts, Plan. Apologies if I misinterpreted. I just feel because the physical abuse is indisputable, op’s friend is now being tagged as the abuser and him the victim. It may not be as clear-cut as that at all, and she may also be deserving of support.

I do agree with a pp that all of this is a secondary concern to the well-being and safety of the children, but I guess I just feel uncomfortable with labels that while, yes, factually correct also carry a judgement with them in a situation that may be very complex.

I agree, @wizzywig - hopefully a plan will be about protecting the children first and foremost, and then getting any support needed to the parents rather than apportionment of blame.

Tell her she needs to leave
This is not good for her the dc or the dh
Then she seeks therapy

@AntiWorkBrigade
You are quite right that it’s never a simple binary and everyone involved is always deserving of support because people who abuse typically learned that behaviour from being abused as a child. Both victim and abuser need help. But as there are children involved too, the authorities have to be involved as soon as possible. It’s a support but report, imho. To not report would be to risk children’s safety and that isn’t advisable.

All we know for fact from the OP is that the OPs friend is a physical abuser, and her husband is a victim of physical abuse. I think that’s why the thread mostly focuses on this because anything else is speculation. The OPs friend claims to be a victim of being “pushed to emotional limits” and “gaslighted” but abusers are known to often have delusions of victimhood as a way to excuse their physical violence. So I have some doubts about this because it’s the usual “look what you made me do” excuse.

Most cases are complex, you have a good point there. Most often, the victims are not perfect victims. They engage in small acts of rebellion that can include verbal or emotional abuse often because living under the threat of impending violence is worse than just pushing the button, getting the beating you know is coming over with and having the post beating calm that follows. Very rarely are there cases with a 100% perfect victim and a 100% despicable abuser.

There are even cases of mutual abuse, where both people in a couple abuse each other and are each other’s victims.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Report her to the police and social services. Domestic violence is never right, and it’s victim blaming to somehow suggest that the victim deserves to be hit because they “push the limits emotionally” or “gaslight.”

In addition, statistically mothers are equally likely as fathers to physically abuse their own children. The fact she abuses her husband and has told you this, increases the likelihood that she is also hitting/abusing the children as well.

In fact, concern for the children is the #1 reason why male victims of domestic violence suffer in silence and stay with their abusers. It’s not like there are any shelters for men and children fleeing DV are there?

This.

Especially the part about increased likelihood she's also physically abusing her own children. She's already emotionally abusing her kids by abusing their own dad in front of them.

@AntiWorkBrigade I very much doubt you'd be saying the saying the genders were reversed 🙄

*saying the same

Plus she sounds like a manipulative and toxic person as she's already making OP feel like she has to excuse her abusive behaviour in order for them to stay friends!