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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

John learns to adult

806 replies

R0SEMARY · 30/05/2021 00:12

Thread 2 - many thanks to @GAHgamel for the thread title. And to everyone else who has supported and advised me thus far.

OP posts:
R0SEMARY · 09/06/2021 00:06

@ToffeeNotCoffee

Like so many things in our marriage. Basically he stopped trying at almost everything as soon as I was pregnant and trapped

When this happens, was this their plan all along ? Or did it just happen i.e. turn out that way ?

Some relationships are ok until they got engaged.........
or
Ok until they got married..............
or
Ok until their baby was on the way.........

Sorry for the thread de-rail.

Back on topic as it's not my thread.

Interesting question. I don’t think that it just turned out that way, as it was an outcome of the choices that he made. I think it’s about his world view.

He saw being nice to me - courtship type behaviours - as being some part of entry fee into marriage / a long term relationship/ getting me pregnant.

He was very good at courtship - lots of small thoughtful gestures, being a good and understanding listener . As well as lots of red flags that I didn’t recognise at the time, like future faking and love bombing.

And of course it’s fun - lots of fun and sex and generally having a good time. I was totally focused on him and his needs and madly in love.

But as soon as I was heavily pregnant and then gave birth, everything changed. I was trapped and he turned off all the love and kindness like a tap.

He had no need to make an effort anymore as it would have been very hard for me to leave, with a tiny baby, no job and all my savings tied up in a house in his sole name.

Things were now the way he wanted them - me at home being a housewife and caring for his children while he enjoyed his work and social life 24/7.

And of course his abuse and control was very subtle - he never hit me or did anything bad in front of others. I had a horrible birth which took a long time to recover from and a non feeding and non sleeping high demand baby.

I did in fact make a fairly serious attempt to leave when first child was a few months old but without success. Where would I have gone ? My family and friends thought he was lovely and no doubt that i had PND. In fact I probably had PTSD.

I was overwhelmed with exhaustion and the demands of the baby and devastated by the way John treated me and refusal to give the tiniest bit of help. It seemed like a total change in his personality. Now I know that it was in fact the real John emerging and the one I fell in love with was the fake John.

Of course I posted on MN and got lots of people telling me how hard it was for new dads and how some men just don’t like babies. But not to worry because they would be fine when the child was 5 and liked to go to football. And how important it was to make a fuss of my husband in case he felt left out and to give him PIV sex as soon as possible ( I was stitched from one end to the other and in a lot of pain) .

I felt like such a failure.

John was so cruel to me at that time , it hurts to look back at it even now. I remember once sobbing in pain and begging him to hold the baby for 5 mins so I could go to the loo ( those of you who have had birth injuries will remember what a major undertaking this was in the days after giving birth Blush) and he refused as he was too busy. He said he would do it in a few hours when he had time.

Please don’t tell me I could have put the screaming baby down . I know that now but at the time it seemed impossible.

He would never bring me a glass of water during long long feeds ( baby had problems feeding) . Then after 45 mins of feeding, I would move baby gingerly to get up and he would projectile vomit against the wall/ sofa / all over me. I would burst into tears and John would get angry at the mess and my stupidity.

So after a feed I had to sit totally still and not move baby in the slightest. But John would refuse to take him to let me get up and get a drink / go to the loo / change a pad. I’d sit there holding the baby aware that the blood was soaking though my pad and onto my clothes and I felt so degraded. I had to sit on bath towels / incontinence pads to nurse.

Eventually I’d take the risk of moving baby and getting up to go to the loo, shower, dry stitches and change and washing my clothes. Then I had about 30 mins to get something to eat / drink and do some chores before starting again.

I remember feeling so angry at those stupid midwives who suggested that every time I went to the loo I should wash myself and dry my stitches with a hairdryer. And exactly who would care for baby while I did that 10 times a day? !!

I spent these long feeds desolately hoping baby didn’t have a dirty happy during a feed and need changed because then he’d throw up and I’d have to start the whole process again. It was soul destroying.

John got angry as I did nothing but sit around all day ( in his opinion) and the housework was never done to his standards. I remember once he came home from work and the dinner ( for once ) was made. He had a huge tantrum because the kitchen floor wasn’t mopped and insisted that I get down on my hands and knees to clean it.

The dinner burned while I was doing that. It’s funny that I can remember it like it happened yesterday.

Looking back I feel sad that all these early months with my firstborn were completely blighted by John’s truly horrible behaviour. All I could think about (secretly of course ) was getting baby into nursery and back to work. Then I was made redundant in a restructuring of my company.

So I really was trapped.

And yes you might well wonder why I went on to have another two children with him. But that’s a whole other story.

OP posts:
Maxiedog123 · 09/06/2021 00:44

I am so sorry for that long ago Rosemary

AcrossthePond55 · 09/06/2021 01:22

Oh R0SEMARY that just breaks my heart. No woman should ever have to go through something like that.

People who've never been in your (our) situation don't understand that it is so hard to just break free. So many reasons why; money, societal pressure to 'look good', family (mine didn't believe in divorce and had no experience with DV). It's never as simple as 'just pack up and leave'. We as women have also received such mixed messages growing up on how to have a 'successful marriage'. And indeed, exactly what a 'successful marriage' is!

But you now know just who you are and what you want. And he has no idea who he's truly dealing with. You go girl. You GO!

SusieSusieSoo · 09/06/2021 01:38

Rosemary I've just read both threads. You are amazing. Your children are obviously so lucky to have such a loving mum. I am truly sorry things have been so hard for you. Keep going with everything it is so good to be away from the toxic relationship & under your own roof xx

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/06/2021 02:24

Of course I posted on MN and got lots of people telling me how hard it was for new dads and how some men just don’t like babies. But not to worry because they would be fine when the child was 5 and liked to go to football. And how important it was to make a fuss of my husband in case he felt left out and to give him PIV sex as soon as possible ( I was stitched from one end to the other and in a lot of pain) .

I feel much better about being a man-mating, harridan feminist on threads like that now. Good men pitch in. I didn't enjoy newborns either but no one gets a pass.

I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad you're out now. Long-ago ROSEMARY is cheering.

Sparklfairy · 09/06/2021 04:25

I've lurked on both your threads @R0SEMARY but your last update broke my heart. How can anyone be so utterly cruel? You must have felt completely hopeless.

I'm also shocked at the advice you got from MN. Perhaps it was different back then, or maybe as you were at such a low point you took the wrong advice to heart. I like to think that a woman posting now in a similar position would get better advice as generally we have a low tolerance for bullshit from arsehole men! I'm sorry you didn't get the support here that you needed.

I'm so glad that you're out. John is a disgusting excuse for a human being and you will flourish without him dragging you down.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 09/06/2021 07:06

I too have read both your threads, and been following for a while. Your last post is absolutely heart-wrenching to read - you poor, poor thing and I’m so sorry you got the “advice” you did from MN. No-one should ever have to put up with that failure from others (and that’s what John is, a failure) and go through what you did.

I didn’t go down the route of being pregnant (although lord knows, my ex tried to coerce me into it) but I absolutely recognise the scenario of someone being wonderful in order to “get” you, then the real agenda coming out. Reading the rest of your post was like a glimpse into what my future would probably have been, had I not run. I’m so deeply sorry that it was your reality Flowers

KatherineSiena · 09/06/2021 07:14

You poor woman, he sounds truly horrific. I am so pleased you are ridding yourself of him. Up until the last post I’d been enjoying your thread and I’ve been cheering you on silently. Now I feel so sad and sorry for what you’ve been through.

The fact that you have retained your sense of humour and ability to plan and stay calm after all that is a great testament to you & proves you will thrive. 💐

pointythings · 09/06/2021 07:51

Oh God, I just knew he'd have done awful stuff in the past. You've come so far from that woman! And here you are, taking over the house, getting rid of him with strength and humour, financially independent and emotionally strong. Respect.

Orgasmagorical · 09/06/2021 07:57

So many similarities, Rosemary. Your last post is shocking to read compared to the humour and balls in so many of your others. You are an amazing woman Flowers Star

John on the other hand is a snivelling utter cunt of an excuse for a 'man'.

LannieDuck · 09/06/2021 08:01

I'm so sorry OP, that's awful behaviour. Sorry you didn't get out earlier, but well done for getting out now! :)

RandomMess · 09/06/2021 08:16

Truly heartbroken for you Sad

Certainly wouldn't have been my advice even back then Thanks

A wonderful new life awaits you.

R0SEMARY · 09/06/2021 08:18

Sorry I had a bit of a pity party last night. For some reason I’m having lots of flashbacks of things that happened years ago. They were all quite small things but as you can see they affected me very badly , I felt completely crushed.

He wasn’t a bad husband in most people’s eyes.

He didn’t hit me ( although he threw things around a few times and once he pinned me to the bed and went as if to punch me in the face so I knew he could if he wanted to ).

He rarely swore at me. He rarely got drunk and never used drugs. He wasn’t in trouble with the police or neighbours. He had a good job and kept a roof over our heads.

He was very nice in public and told everyone how much he adored his children. He was extremely charming.

When I posted about him on MN I didn’t give all the details like I did last night. I probably said he didn’t help me with the baby and doing feeds. And of course I was off on maternity leave and he was at work more than full time so MNers said it was reasonable that he had time off in evenings and weekends as I had all day off to do nothing.

And I do think that things have changed on MN in 20 years. There’s much more of an expectation that dads do things with the baby. Then he was seen as doing his bit by supporting me financially while I was on Mat leave. Like he was doing me a big favour paying me for me to have a year long holiday Hmm.

However You still see people banging on here about the stress on men of being the sole earner and how women have to fund their own maternity leave from savings and still pay half of the bills and all the costs for the baby.

And how small babies aren’t fun for men . I didn’t find them fun either TBH but women are not allowed to say that as it’s unnatural. Mine didn’t sleep through the night for ages. The last one was 3 1/2 years . I don’t get a full nights sleep for about 5 years as John was never in his life got up at night for a crying baby / toddler / child.

Sorry I’m full of moans today.

OP posts:
pointythings · 09/06/2021 08:40

Rosemary you are starting to process everything that you've gone through now that John has gone. That means a lot of bad memories are going to resurface. It's normal and natural, it's your brain's way of working through trauma. The best thing you can do is let it happen, but if it gets too hard it might be worthwhile looking to see if the NHS offers a wellbeing service in your area where you can self refer for some talking therapy type support. The way you feel right now is shit, but it's part of your recovery from your awful marriage and in the end you will come out stronger and happier. Been there, done that. Flowers

Sparklfairy · 09/06/2021 08:43

For some reason I’m having lots of flashbacks of things that happened years ago.

This is to be expected. Your mind is beginning to work through and process all the utter shit you've endured over the years. This is a good thing, but it may help to go through it with a counsellor at some point (I can't remember if you have already got one/looking for one).

Keep talking here, be it moaning or mocking. We're all behind you Flowers

katmarie · 09/06/2021 08:43

I think it's only now you're out of the situation that your mind has the time and space to start to process all that you have been through. Until now you have been in survival mode, even though some of this happened a while ago, you have never had space to deal with it, and now you do, your brain is probably going to start throwing out some random stuff that has been shoved in a box for a long time, for you to sort out.

Leaving an abusive ex partner isn't the end of the process, it's the beginning. You are giving yourself space to heal and move forward, but you must give yourself time too. And consider whether some therapy to help you to work through what you've been through might be helpful.

John might not have beaten you but he was abusive none the less. Threats of violence, emotional and psychological abuse, financial abuse too, are all incredibly damaging. No one deserves to be treated the way he treated you. You have taken a huge step on recovering from that but there are more steps to come, so be gentle with yourself as you work through. But know this, you survived it being done to you. Recovering from it won't be anywhere near as tough as that.

Orgasmagorical · 09/06/2021 08:54

Sorry I had a bit of a pity party last night. For some reason I’m having lots of flashbacks of things that happened years ago. They were all quite small things but as you can see they affected me very badly , I felt completely crushed

When they've been needling away at you for so long in so many ways, fucking with your head, enjoying making you suffer, you can't just switch it off and forget about it. It takes a long time to recover from narcissistic abuse.

My ex sounds similar to yours - was the life and soul, appeared to be caring, responsible and supportive but behind closed doors was grinding me down to nothing. I was once going through a particularly bad time of ill health and extreme pain while trying to look after the livestock. On one occasion all I could do was manage to carry a cup full of feed at a time while he sat watching me with his half shut frog eyes stuffing his face with a family bucket of fast food. This had gone on for a long time and I eventually broke down and he said "If you need help you just have to ask". I said "You can see how I am, I shouldn't have to ask". The next time he made himself scarce so I still had to manage myself.

These men must really hate us. Even more so now that we are happy and strong without them and they'll always be just the same.

Orgasmagorical · 09/06/2021 09:03

I think it's only now you're out of the situation that your mind has the time and space to start to process all that you have been through. Until now you have been in survival mode

That's so true, it wasn't until I was away from the ex that I could see the whole extent of what he'd been doing. Some of it was very obvious and couldn't be denied (although he did) but there was the more subtle stuff that was just part of my life that seemed normal. With the help of Women's Aid and Rape Crisis I now know that it's not normal and what he did was deliberate.

giletrouge · 09/06/2021 11:39

ROSEMARY 💔
I just don't know what to say. You have really been through it.
I hope you continue to get stronger and never, ever have to deal with his shit again. Flowers

NeedNewKnees · 09/06/2021 12:41

Oh Rosemary, lovey! Wish I could give you tea and cake and a hug. I am so sorry John was an abusive asshole and am delighted you’re starting your new John-free life.

You’re decompressing now. Lots of stuff will bubble up, and some will be very upset. It’s part of the process of separating, so please be kind to yourself as you go through it.

grapewine · 09/06/2021 12:46

I feel for you. Have the pity party. You've been through the wringer. They don't have to hit you to grind you down.

Wish you a happy life from now on - on your own terms.

AcrossthePond55 · 09/06/2021 12:49

An unfortunate part of becoming a strong woman and getting out of a bad marriage is that your mind says "Well she's strong enough now to deal with XYZ" and it will start to unlock memories from that locked box in the back corner of your mental closet.

It's a necessary but distressing part of the process. Please don't be afraid to seek counseling if it starts to overwhelm you or really impact your day to day life.

Juneisjoyful · 09/06/2021 12:51

Don't blame yourself up that abuse became your normal op. My ex had sex with me whenever he wanted. Once had an abnormal smear and told him poker faced the Dr said no sex for 6 months. The absolute relief.
He was a drunk who smashed up our home.
His family's solution was to not visit and not see our home.

WallaceinAnderland · 09/06/2021 13:30

If he is reading this, he should be really fucking ashamed of himself.

PandemicAtTheDisco · 09/06/2021 14:16

I did the freedom course and then was offered another course to help me avoid getting into the same situation again with any potential future partners. Unfortunately I got back together with my ex after he promised he'd changed and it wouldn't happen again so wasn't allowed to go on the second course. The abuse restarted - it didn't really ever go away - and we split permanently.

I have been damaged by staying in an abusive relationship so long but more and more of my old self is gradually coming back. I'm still processing a lot from my relationship but have now stopped counselling. The counselling was vital for about a year.

Today I did something that I've put off doing for nearly a year because I felt unable to do it myself - I relied on my ex to sort it out even though he often makes mistakes himself as he's careless - I didn't want him involved yet didn't trust myself enough to sort it out myself. Despite often being the person who would eventually end up sorting out the messes my ex had caused!

I feel a huge sense of achievement for doing it myself - yet I am an educated, intelligent woman and I'm more likely to make the right decisions than him - so why do I lack faith in myself?

I used to do all the bills myself when I was 18 and never made any mistakes. My ex took over and made a right mess of them when we were together. He got me into huge debt - yet I worried when I got my own place and was faced with bills again - I've never messed up since but still feel uncertain of my competency.

I'd like to be that woman who was confident in herself for many areas of her life. I did lack confidence in some areas which is why I think I allowed him into my life in the first place.