Where did all the good men go in the UK?

[DadAManger]

I am asking this for a friend - really!

I hear over and over now from my single friends over 30 that there is a massive shortfall in good quality men in the UK?

Do MN users and readers agree? What are your own experiences? Many happily married women on here I'm sure, so what's your view?

One thing I do notice myself - but don't necessarily share with my single friends (I like them) - is that a lot of them seem to have long lists of "must-have/must-be" points for a guy to be up to standard for them?

@WebCookiesAreIntrusive
Your post gave me a giggle and I think there’s a lot of truth to it .
I just find it extra scary when I get in here and see men coming to a predominately woman’s forum to inform us that men prefer younger women and it’s just a ‘biologically natural’ as if we should just accept it , no questions asked I have to wonder what exactly they are saying about their own ‘youth preferences ‘ and why they don’t just speak for themselves .
And like you say most of them are like jabba the hut so it’s not like it’s a loss .
Always fascinates me that the men seeking younger or so called fertile are usually not the cream of the crop themselves
Yet as I’ve gotten older I’ve found the most interest coming from the higher quality and more educated men
I wonder if there’s a correlation between men who seek equal partnerships ( ie value women for human attributes not just appearance) and intelligence . I suspect this is likely.

Exactly. Men prefer a woman 20 years younger but the average age gap is still about 3 years apparently.

Im 50 and if the only power I have in the dating game is to say no thank you then that's what I will do. Hence accepting being single.

Men that are a bit older, say late 30s onwards will have learned from their mistakes and thought hard about what they want going forward (or at least the sensible ones) which may provide some explanation Washingtofold.

A quick Google search puts estimates of 65% of UK adults being overweight with nearly half of that group obese. I don't think it's something exclusive to the male domain

Oh as a younger woman I was not at all attracted to older men. This may be why Im single. I always thought it was either a low self esteem thing (he'll value my youth if not meeee) or a checking out of adulthood thing (he'll pay for everything and have the last say on everything), or sometimes, if a woman's father was really old when when he had her, she is less repelled by an older man (sexually).

So the it's just biology, accept it is only a male perspective. In our 20s the only one of us to give older men thought, had a v low self esteem and a father old enough to be her grandfather.

Not judging. My age appropriate xbf was abusive.

@Gucci1961

Exactly. Men prefer a woman 20 years younger but the average age gap is still about 3 years apparently.

Hangon so this blanket statement men prefer women 20 years younger So a 40 tr old wants a 20 yr old A 30 yr old wants a 10 yr old Come on let’s just give up on the stereotypes and acknowledge that if men are going to use the ‘ it’s biological for men to want younger women ‘ argument then they sure as hell better be explaining how they know just by looking the differences between a child and woman when many very young teens are fertile and look older Are they saying that the law is the only thing standing in their way wtf

@ and sorry Gucci if that wtf came across wrong . It’s for the men making the claim , not you . I clearly agree absolutely with what you are saying , that it’s purely an excuse by men who have these strange preferences
And before anyone jumps in to say they are in an age gap relationship I AM NOT talking about relationships where age gaps either way happen to form and people fall in love / that’s not the issue here
I’m talking about men who throw around the argument that it’s a biological imperative that men want younger the better

I agree @Gucci1961 I wasn’t at all interested in older men, I’m still not now I’m in my 40s! It’s definitely a male perspective that older men get to choose younger women, because that’s what men want! I can’t think of any of my friends who dated older men when we were in our 20s, I think it’s actually quite unusual as the pp who said the average age gap is 3 years even if men would prefer 20years younger.

I dated one older man (I was 20, he was 31) and I expected him to be more solvent, more reasonable and more committed than the younger men I’d dated but that wasn’t the case. In my experience the older men that haven’t been snapped up, haven’t been snapped up for a reason. They’re looking for younger women as women their own age can see straight through them.

Like others on this thread I met a foreign guy 3 years younger when I was 25 and we’re still together after 20years. I’m sure there are some good British guys out there but the ones I met and dated were all obsessed with gaming and how amazing they are while being quite lazy and entitled.

@SilenceIsInvisible

Women are perfectly capable of being intelligent and having successful careers without being "headstrong" or "stressed", or neglecting their children and husbands or family life. 😆 It is perfectly possible to have an enriching and equal relationship and both have careers and earn money and care for children and have an equal partnership you know.

What you posted is as ludicrous as suggesting a woman with more than two braincells to rub together would think that all men with a decent career and functioning brain are incapable of having a happy family home or a successful marriage and need a nice little 1950s housewife to take care off all of that tiresome "domestic stuff". 🙄

What do you think single parents do that do all of these roles at once, earn the money and be the main caregiver?? Clearly it's not impossible to have more than one role in life.

The internalised misogyny in your post is incredible. Is it just delusion, or is that irrational comment a symptom of a chip on the shoulder?

@SilenceIsInvisible what a laughable post You didn't bother to read my post properly and have just projected your own 'stuff' on it.

You're also making some interesting assumptions there. You have no idea about my own background or career for example.

Having young children, running a home, having two demanding and time-consuming careers, and having the required level of rest/leisure/couple time to support a happy marriage are all big commitments. Scream "misogyny" 🙄 all you want because you don't want to hear common sense, but for any human being, there's only 24 hours in a day.

Yes you can do all these things and run your yourself/family ragged trying to uphold unrealistically high expectations all round with the time available, but at least one (normally more) of these things will suffer. There's a reason why divorce rates are so high in high pressure careers. Many men are being sensible and are choosing women who are more compatible with their lifestyles. Many women would benefit from doing similar.

There's plenty of examples of both parents working and bringing up a family, but for a balanced family life where the children and marriage are properly prioritised, one or both parents normally flex to have jobs that are less pressured in some way, during critical years. For some parents, providing a more expensive lifestyle for their kids is a higher priority than actually spending more quality time with them during their childhoods, but for many parents the priority is the other way round.

Every child has two parents. Single parents are doing an admirable job trying to do the role of two people. Many are normally run ragged as a result. Single parenthood and all its pressures are not what most normal people aspire to.

British men are utter worthless shit with the exception of my DS obviously.
If I ever have another relationship I'll be looking for a man from abroad from a country that supports my own personal values instead of a diet of extreme porn and football.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky
That's a bit harsh surely ? I've been in unsuccessful relationships but I've never quoted porn or football as the reason to split
More incompatibility- differing aims - annoying habits - and I'm sure they've said the same about me
Please let's not tar everyone with the same brush that all men are shit
That's really not fair - and I'm sure foreign men watch porn and football too?

I’ve never been out with an older man. I find that icky. That said, some people may not like the fact that my DH is 3 years younger than me. Everyone thinks he’s older though.

I don’t judge men for what they look for in a woman because I’m equally picky/ discriminating. I’ve never gone out with a man who wasn’t v v good looking. My DH was absolutely gorgeous when he was younger, and still is a v handsome man. It’s a bonus that he was also kind and ambitious, but initially it was about looks. I was in my 20’s then though.

I can see why some men go for looks, because I’m equally judging them and he would have to have something v special about him for me to overlook a pot belly. Superficial, yes! But why shouldn’t I hold men to the same standards they hold us to?

@SilenceIsInvisible
To add to my above post, there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a woman who wants to stay at home with their kids and be a "housewife". Housewife has become such a dirty word.There's a trend nowadays to create shame around women who want to focus on bringing up their kids... as if they're not "good enough" as women who are simultaneously working. It's utter rubbish. I have a full on career where I've made a lot of impact in different ways but I certainly don't see a woman who's a SAHM as "lesser" than me.

Bringing up the next generation is a huge and vital job in and of itself, and for many people, looking after young kids 24/7 is actually more taxing than a full time demanding career.

This toxic devaluation of "at home" roles is one of contributing factors to why a lot of these so-called high flying men are often reluctant to pull their weight at home. If society, including women themselves, devalue it so much, of course people start to subconsciously see looking after their own kids and home as "below" them.

*There's a trend

Many men will ask the same thing about women. Trying to find one that is not just trying to find a man to give them children or comes with 3 children with 3 dad's who needs a forth to complete her family. Finding one prepared to contribute financially and not rely on being subsidised ( and I include saving for retirement in that) finding one who is attractive and not overweight and finding someone who wants to equally contribute to the relationship in terms of jobs and not conform to gender stereotypes and roles within the house. And above all intelligent where the first thing discussed isn't love island, pregnancies in little mix and how maths and science is hard and "I don't do that".

This may be why Im single. I always thought it was either a low self esteem thing (he'll value my youth if not meeee) or a checking out of adulthood thing (he'll pay for everything and have the last say on everything), or sometimes, if a woman's father was really old when when he had her, she is less repelled by an older man (sexually).

I'm not sure this is true. I was 19 when I met DH (28). I didn't have self esteem issues, he definitely was not in a position to pay for everything and my dad was 19 when I was born

We just met and fell in love. I'm not even sure I had a "list" of what I wanted in a man tbh.

I'm always amazed on threads about dating how many women apparently want a tall man. I think I'd be quite successful on OLD as I'd rule out anyone over 5ft9

@Gucci1961

Exactly. Men prefer a woman 20 years younger but the average age gap is still about 3 years apparently.

This is bit of genetic statement that doesn’t reflect on all men, I’m 52 and looking in the kinda 48 to 55 range, Why would I want to look 20 years younger, ? I want to meet someone with the same life experiences and social background as myself, but someone who’s not obsessed with their children’s lives (sorry ), and has lived a bit.

Weirdly tend to agree other posters about looking at foreign people as some seem to have a bit more ‘Spark’ about them. ( I dated an Australian lady for about 2 years, she was self-motivated & driven ),

So if you are saying nearly all of those men are married but not all of those women are, what are the conclusions about why this could be?: many men do not choose wives who can have an equal partnership with them and instead deliberately choose someone who is somehow lacking in qualities they presumably value in themselves?

Women usually look to marry up, men are often content with the cute young nurse (as described earlier in the thread).

The more successful women become, the fewer her options to marry up.

@H2OConnoisseur

With men my age, 20s, the problem is that a lot of them are porn obsessed. If you don't agree with that or if you don't want to perform many of the 'baseline' acts like choking, anal, spitting etc, you're going to have a very hard time. I don't know if it's always been like that but seeing my friends' Tinder messages and seeing the messages I get from outwardly decent men who I thought were 'just friends' with me, I'd say a huge portion are awful and misogynistic even if they think they're progressive and not. You do meet the odd decent guy out that (my best friend is one of them!) but they're really hard to find!

My god that is awful. I rather remain single. All seriousness never lower your standard to anything you feel uncomfortable with. NEVER. BE YOURSELF TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

[quote jannyapple]@Shehasadiamondinthesky
That's a bit harsh surely ? I've been in unsuccessful relationships but I've never quoted porn or football as the reason to split
More incompatibility- differing aims - annoying habits - and I'm sure they've said the same about me
Please let's not tar everyone with the same brush that all men are shit
That's really not fair - and I'm sure foreign men watch porn and football too? [/quote]
In my experience I should have added, maybe other people have had differnt experiences. I'm 59 and have never met a decent hardworking non porn obsessed British man. It may sound harsh but I'm sick to death of them.
Went on a date recently, dates 1 and 2 went fine, date 3 requested something so disgusting I just walked out and went home.

If many men are willing to prioritise a ‘ hot’ not so intelligent 24 yr old over a woman their own age over someone less ‘ hot ‘ in their opinion, Who is their match intellectually and in values and life experience I think men are without doubt the ones lacking insight here .
People can argue all they like that this is somehow a biological imperative for men to seek youth and beauty yet it simply doesn’t hold up

Biological imperative does play a major part though. Same with all the women who love to date bad boys and criminals.

Both sexes often have poor judgement in choosing a mate.

I also married a foreigner, and am counting down the days till divorce!

After my experience with him, I've taken my list of requirements in a partner back to basics, such as:

Doesn't shout at me
Doesn't say cruel things to me
Doesn't bully me into sexual things I don't want to do
Has a job (any job at all will do)
Doesn't punch walls, kick household appliances etc
Doesn't demand money off me for drugs
Doesn't make me feel scared all the time

Am I asking too much? I haven't had much joy with online dating so far. Meanwhile, judging from my ex's social media, he mostly seems to be connecting with barely legal women who do OnlyFans.

I'm not sure what the moral of my story is, maybe pick your foreigner wisely?

One thing I do notice myself - but don't necessarily share with my single friends (I like them) - is that a lot of them seem to have long lists of "must-have/must-be" points for a guy to be up to standard for them?

I have noticed with some of my friends their check lists are pretty much impossible. There are standards, and there’s turning down otherwise lovely blokes because they’re an inch too short, or they don’t have a postgraduate degree, or they haven’t taken a gap year and travelled the world (all reasons my friends have dumped really nice, respectful guys).

“Standards” should be how he treats you, good work ethic, things in common etc. Not some physical feature or lack of travelling experience.