Have you ever set boundaries with your in-laws regarding elderly help? If so, some tips and advice are needed please.

[Cheeseandbeansontoast]

For background info, there is dh and his brother, plus me and SIL and their adult children. We didn’t have children.

Some help required here as the In-laws (who think women should be kept in a box until help is expected 🙄) are getting older and getting more demanding.

Dh is doing all he can to help, his Dbro isn’t doing much to help as their adult children ‘need him at home’ , and as we don’t have children, surely we have nothing better to do…..As you can tell, I’m a bit pissed off.

I help out every now and then with Dh, but they make a five minute job into a day of a thing, adding jobs on to the original ‘to do’ list, so we are stuck there longer than anticipated, and the hints of women’s work and elderly care are getting stronger. Up to now, I have ignored them.

But it’s going to come to a head one day, and I think boundaries need setting now. Have you set boundaries regarding this? If so, how did you implement them?

My thoughts are that the primary caregiving goes to Dh and his Dbro, 50/50, seeing as she gave birth to them and brought them up.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

In the main elderly people make no provision for their later years because they believe that their own children can be guilted into sacrificing their well-being. If said elderly people knew that this wasn't going to happen they would make better plans and we would all be the better for it

I think there's a lot in this, though it bears saying plenty of seniors don't think that way

That said, this thing of "I'd never expect my children to do it all" is often heard when folk are younger ... only they don't put anything in place, so when the time comes there are difficulties

Yes, I remember they said ‘they’ll never be a burden’.

I get how that can change when they become frail, but surely they must know that 20 years down the line their bodies are 20 years older, health can go downhill, and mental faculties can diminish.

It doesn't sound like you want to care/ help with them at all therefore don't! because your lack of care will be obvious and they will feel like a burden. No one needs to be made feel that way.

Try treating them with the dignity and respect you will want treated with in your older years.

Both my in laws died this year. My father in law lived with us for 6 months and my mother in law was in a nursing home with dementia. What I wouldn't give for my husband to see them one last time. But he can't.

I'm not saying it is always easy but getting older is part of life and will come to us all.

Friday is mine and dh’s day together to do what we want.
Saturday dh works so I do the weekly meal plan and the food shopping in the morning, then in the afternoon its my turn to relax and have some me time, hobbies like reading/listening to music/having a dabble with essential oils /diy recipes for facial scrubs and whatever. Dh comes home and it’s takeaway and beer time.
Sunday, day of rest.

So you have a lovely long weekend to yourself, no kids, no parents of your own to have to be concerned with. No responsibility to others at all. Only a very few people have that amount of totally free time. So it's odd that the idea of helping your DH (not doing it alone) with in-law contact is so anathema to you. You're doing it for him, not them, surely?

You ended up in the wallpaper shop with her alone, because of covid. But that's not going to always be the case.

Yes, it's fine to decide what your boundaries are, and have the discussion with bil, but you do sound very reluctant to lose even a couple of hours of your long weekend of me time to support your DH.

Glad you’re not my DIL.....

@hopeishere

Interesting. FIL is now in a home but I gather extended family were annoyed immediate family didn't do more before making that move.

BiL now shoulders most of the day to day manner of that - visiting etc. But he likes to be in charge and is living rent free with bills paid in Fils house!!

Interesting. FIL is now in a home but I gather extended family were annoyed immediate family didn't do more before making that move.

BiL now shoulders most of the day to day manner of that - visiting etc. But he likes to be in charge and is living rent free with bills paid in Fils house!!

Hmmm, crafty🙂. What will happen to the house when FIL dies ? If it goes to the family, then that’s fair enough that DBIL look after DFIL in exchange while he is alive.

I think helping an elderly MIL to choose a bit of wallpaper is hardly that onerous and surely comes under the heading of being a relative. I thought you were going to be talking about personal care or huge amounts of time being a carer. You are not unreasonable to expect your dh and his brother to help their parents with tasks. It would however be a bit weird if a MIL can't ask her DIL for help choosing a bit of wallpaper! This probably comes down to the fact that you dislike her and don't want to have to spend time with her. If it is that then that's fine but be straight forward about that.

@saraclara

Friday is mine and dh’s day together to do what we want. *Saturday dh works so I do the weekly meal plan and the food shopping in the morning, then in the afternoon its my turn to relax and have some me time, hobbies like reading/listening to music/having a dabble with essential oils /diy recipes for facial scrubs and whatever. Dh comes home and it’s takeaway and beer time. Sunday, day of rest.*

So you have a lovely long weekend to yourself, no kids, no parents of your own to have to be concerned with. No responsibility to others at all. Only a very few people have that amount of totally free time. So it's odd that the idea of helping your DH (not doing it alone) with in-law contact is so anathema to you. You're doing it for him, not them, surely?

You ended up in the wallpaper shop with her alone, because of covid. But that's not going to always be the case.

Yes, it's fine to decide what your boundaries are, and have the discussion with bil, but you do sound very reluctant to lose even a couple of hours of your long weekend of me time to support your DH.

So you have a lovely long weekend to yourself, no kids, no parents of your own to have to be concerned with. No responsibility to others at all. Only a very few people have that amount of totally free time. So it's odd that the idea of helping your DH (not doing it alone) with in-law contact is so anathema to you. You're doing it for him, not them, surely?

My parents died years ago, who said I didn’t help them?
No kids, no. Without going into details, who said that was a choice?

Lovely long weekend, offset by long shifts over three continuous days at work On My Feet NHS frontline. Am I not entitled to have some of that time back?
Yes, I appreciate other people work frontline and suffered due to covid that don’t work for the NHS also.

MIL doesn’t want me down at their house alone, she will only have immediate family there that she knows she can manipulate eg dh, and me by proxy.

'No responsibility to others at all. Only a very few people have that amount of totally free time'

careful, your envy is hanging out! Good for OP. She's an adult, and gets to decide how she spends her free time. Some people can't let go of this idea that if you don't have kids you must be martyring yourself in some other way. It's beyond tedious. And it should be blindingly obvious by now that OP's concerns are about a lot more than just choosing a bit of wallpaper

@cansu

I think helping an elderly MIL to choose a bit of wallpaper is hardly that onerous and surely comes under the heading of being a relative. I thought you were going to be talking about personal care or huge amounts of time being a carer. You are not unreasonable to expect your dh and his brother to help their parents with tasks. It would however be a bit weird if a MIL can't ask her DIL for help choosing a bit of wallpaper! This probably comes down to the fact that you dislike her and don't want to have to spend time with her. If it is that then that's fine but be straight forward about that.

I think helping an elderly MIL to choose a bit of wallpaper is hardly that onerous and surely comes under the heading of being a relative.

It would would have hardly been onerous had she been nice about it, and not gone about it the way she did. It’s the ‘we have nothing else better to do’ attitude. Otherwise I would have been very happy to choose wallpaper with her.

It’s not so much as disliking her, we do have the occasional laugh, though she is not the type to sit with you and show interest in what you do. There is no chat about nice things like perfume, makeup clothes afternoon tea etc (I have tried to chat with her in the past, but have failed miserably). if anything she isn’t scared of telling you that you don’t suit said makeup clothes etc.

@Lottapianos

'No responsibility to others at all. Only a very few people have that amount of totally free time'

careful, your envy is hanging out! Good for OP. She's an adult, and gets to decide how she spends her free time. Some people can't let go of this idea that if you don't have kids you must be martyring yourself in some other way. It's beyond tedious. And it should be blindingly obvious by now that OP's concerns are about a lot more than just choosing a bit of wallpaper

No envy. I'm retired!

And as I've said, she's entitled to make her boundaries. But in my head, when my DH was alive I saw helping with his parents as supporting him, not them. And now he's dead I see it as supporting my SIL as it would otherwise all be on her.

I think there is a bit of tension between you not wanting to spend the time on MIL and your DH. In most families, one sibling ends up doing most of the care. So in practice, I think it's totally reasonable for you not to get involved but would it be ok for your DH to do more? I am not saying he has to do it, but his brother might not step up (and that's not unusual). Is it that you resent you having to get involved or your DH?

This is why I'm so glad we live far away. I'd feel no guilt about filling in for your BIL.

I agree that this is a boundaries with in laws question, op should be firm about those with her dh too, it's quite reasonable to avoid all intimate care and so on. I don't think the op ought to be doing more other than as support to her dh (so indirectly), and in that case 'more' could include encouraging him to set boundaries, arrange professional help and so on.

However I also think that perhaps not having had to do the years of labour involved in having children means what counts in the op's view as an unreasonable demand on her time, some others would see as minor. You do have a lot of free time you're perfectly entitled to protect (provisos about supporting your husband aside), but you may find a lot of other people don't instinctively perceive things like the wallpaper shopping as as outrageous as you do. I don't think this is just about not having had kids, I think people who've been retired for many years even after having had kids can end up in the same position, so used to facing lots of free time that demands that are small compared to those of parenting can seem a lot. The point is that when looking for support you may find that some people aren't quite on the same page as you when it comes to a particular demand on your time being unreasonable, because they have more or more recent experience of nothing like as much free time.

@YouCanStopNowThanks

I agree that this is a boundaries with in laws question, op should be firm about those with her dh too, it's quite reasonable to avoid all intimate care and so on. I don't think the op ought to be doing more other than as support to her dh (so indirectly), and in that case 'more' could include encouraging him to set boundaries, arrange professional help and so on.

However I also think that perhaps not having had to do the years of labour involved in having children means what counts in the op's view as an unreasonable demand on her time, some others would see as minor. You do have a lot of free time you're perfectly entitled to protect (provisos about supporting your husband aside), but you may find a lot of other people don't instinctively perceive things like the wallpaper shopping as as outrageous as you do. I don't think this is just about not having had kids, I think people who've been retired for many years even after having had kids can end up in the same position, so used to facing lots of free time that demands that are small compared to those of parenting can seem a lot. The point is that when looking for support you may find that some people aren't quite on the same page as you when it comes to a particular demand on your time being unreasonable, because they have more or more recent experience of nothing like as much free time.

Thank you. I agree with all you say, though I didn’t see ‘wallpapergate’ outrageous in as much as how she went about it.

If she was approachable, easy to have a chat with along with a cup of tea at the end, then fine, no problem, even with extra things lined up on the day, It’s the manipulation of our time.

What happens when you say no to something?

@SecondRow

What happens when you say no to something?

What happens when you say no to something?

Do you mean both of us say no, or just me?

The silence is palpable, pursed lips then needling dh about it when she sees him next. Then thinks of something else ‘that I could be doing’.

Yes I meant you... Although I wasn't quite clear if you and DH are on the same page or not about which things you are happy to do for them.

So she's disapproving, can you live with that to an extent if it means you get your free time back? Does disapproval make you feel upset or just cross?

@YouCanStopNowThanks

I agree that this is a boundaries with in laws question, op should be firm about those with her dh too, it's quite reasonable to avoid all intimate care and so on. I don't think the op ought to be doing more other than as support to her dh (so indirectly), and in that case 'more' could include encouraging him to set boundaries, arrange professional help and so on.

However I also think that perhaps not having had to do the years of labour involved in having children means what counts in the op's view as an unreasonable demand on her time, some others would see as minor. You do have a lot of free time you're perfectly entitled to protect (provisos about supporting your husband aside), but you may find a lot of other people don't instinctively perceive things like the wallpaper shopping as as outrageous as you do. I don't think this is just about not having had kids, I think people who've been retired for many years even after having had kids can end up in the same position, so used to facing lots of free time that demands that are small compared to those of parenting can seem a lot. The point is that when looking for support you may find that some people aren't quite on the same page as you when it comes to a particular demand on your time being unreasonable, because they have more or more recent experience of nothing like as much free time.

Also just to note that when we realised that children were not going to come along, we knuckled down and worked every hour that we could to pay our mortgage off. We worked full time then, plus overtime and when we did pay our mortgage off, we reduced our hours, so we haven’t always had a lot of time to ourselves.

I still get, though, the difference in our lives compared to other people on the thread who had children.

@YouCanStopNowThanks.

Mil forgets the hours we put in then, just looks at the here and now.
She retired in her early fifties, and though we are not old at mid fifties, and our hours are reduced, we value our together when we are not at work.
And I appreciate many people have done the same as us, working to get to this time in their lives where they can relax.

@SecondRow

Yes I meant you... Although I wasn't quite clear if you and DH are on the same page or not about which things you are happy to do for them.

So she's disapproving, can you live with that to an extent if it means you get your free time back? Does disapproval make you feel upset or just cross?

I don’t know. I think disapproval makes me both cross and upset. Yes dh and I are on the same page, and he needs my help I know, but he needs his brothers help too.

OP would you be ok with your DH doing as much or more as he does now? Is it about creating boundaries just for yourself or you and DH together?

@34975jfk

OP would you be ok with your DH doing as much or more as he does now? Is it about creating boundaries just for yourself or you and DH together?

OP would you be ok with your DH doing as much or more as he does now? Is it about creating boundaries just for yourself or you and DH together?

It is about creating boundaries for dh and I together.

If two brothers do a 50/50 share with their parents, and me and DSIL give indirect (and sometimes direct) help so they don’t have to worry about anything else, then we can all have free time. (Not sure if that is ever going to happen….)

Does that make any sense? Am I asking too much?

I suppose it's not so much about if what you're asking is too much. It's that you can't change either MIL or BIL. They will still be entitled (as you see it) and lazy respectively.

You can only change your reaction. Decide the boundaries with your DH (or maybe even for yourself, as DH might want you to go along for a quiet life) and stick to them. Rise above the disapproval? Leave BIL's "share", don't pick up his slack, be unavailable after you've done your bit.

@THfwef2000

I think there is a bit of tension between you not wanting to spend the time on MIL and your DH. In most families, one sibling ends up doing most of the care. So in practice, I think it's totally reasonable for you not to get involved but would it be ok for your DH to do more? I am not saying he has to do it, but his brother might not step up (and that's not unusual). Is it that you resent you having to get involved or your DH?

No, it wouldn’t be okay for dh to do more.

My point is, is that she is manipulating dh into asking me for help, because dbro has no intention of helping, just takes the easy way. She is not an easy person to be around.

I think we need to create some boundaries on what we will do/not do, and discuss this with her, but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

@SecondRow

I suppose it's not so much about if what you're asking is too much. It's that you can't change either MIL or BIL. They will still be entitled (as you see it) and lazy respectively.

You can only change your reaction. Decide the boundaries with your DH (or maybe even for yourself, as DH might want you to go along for a quiet life) and stick to them. Rise above the disapproval? Leave BIL's "share", don't pick up his slack, be unavailable after you've done your bit.

Thank you, I get what you are saying. I need to change my reaction and stick to some boundaries that need placing.