Have you ever set boundaries with your in-laws regarding elderly help? If so, some tips and advice are needed please.

[Cheeseandbeansontoast]

For background info, there is dh and his brother, plus me and SIL and their adult children. We didn’t have children.

Some help required here as the In-laws (who think women should be kept in a box until help is expected 🙄) are getting older and getting more demanding.

Dh is doing all he can to help, his Dbro isn’t doing much to help as their adult children ‘need him at home’ , and as we don’t have children, surely we have nothing better to do…..As you can tell, I’m a bit pissed off.

I help out every now and then with Dh, but they make a five minute job into a day of a thing, adding jobs on to the original ‘to do’ list, so we are stuck there longer than anticipated, and the hints of women’s work and elderly care are getting stronger. Up to now, I have ignored them.

But it’s going to come to a head one day, and I think boundaries need setting now. Have you set boundaries regarding this? If so, how did you implement them?

My thoughts are that the primary caregiving goes to Dh and his Dbro, 50/50, seeing as she gave birth to them and brought them up.

@joystir59

I don't see why any family member should become responsible for giving ever increasing amounts of support in terms of maintaining and clean the house or providing personal care and life admin support. I personally believe that when we become incapable of managing ourselves and our affairs it's time to sell up and move into an assisted living facility or residential/care home. That's what I will be doing. I wouldn't dream of burdening family members.

I agree with this. Op you are judging your dh's brother for not doing enough, but he doesn't want to get involved (with whatever it is your inlaws need doing). If they can afford to have their whole house professionally wall papered I daresay they can afford to have a handyman come round to do odd jobs on a to do list.

My brother and I help our mother with some of her online food shopping and things like ordering her a new toaster or kettle if she needs one. Everything else she buys in. She is very old and infirm now so gets attendance allowance which pays for most of it.

Encouraging elderly people to retain as much independence as possible can only be a good thing? As in use it or lose it!

@Soontobe60

I’m shocked at the number of people on here who would not help out with their parents in law, but leave it all to their partners. What happened to supporting family? God help some of you when you get older and need more support.

I agree completely.

Between us my husband and I have looked after all 4 of our parents. His mum and then my dad almost broke us.

We pulled together, both working and had 2 teenagers and we'd have had it no other way.

The utter selfishness and callous comments on here makes me shudder.

My mom is expected to do everything as its womens work and my uncle works
Your mum is doing this work in the belief that you will feel obligated to follow suit and put yourself at her service when she gets older. Maybe tell her that you are not going to martyr yourself so she should stop martyring herself?

God help some of you when you get older
In the main elderly people make no provision for their later years because they believe that their own children can be guilted into sacrificing their well-being. If said elderly people knew that this wasn't going to happen they would make better plans and we would all be the better for it 🌞

@Miasicarisatia

My mom is expected to do everything as its womens work and my uncle works Your mum is doing this work in the belief that you will feel obligated to follow suit and put yourself at her service when she gets older. Maybe tell her that you are not going to martyr yourself so she should stop martyring herself?

She's not doing it. She's being expected to do it but it's not possible.

@Miasicarisatia

God help some of you when you get older In the main elderly people make no provision for their later years because they believe that their own children can be guilted into sacrificing their well-being. If said elderly people knew that this wasn't going to happen they would make better plans and we would all be the better for it 🌞

My personal experience is the opposite of this. From my grandmother, who was fiercely independent, to my dad who would not allow us to help him when he had major surgery and now my mum who has early stage Alzheimer’s we have had to almost force them to accept help.

OP, what happens when you do set boundaries? Is it her reaction or disapproval you're afraid of?

Like in the wallpaper shop, you say, No MIL, that wasn't the plan, we've got the stuff for the living room and DH is waiting in the car, I'm not getting involved in other projects today.

What's the worst that could happen?

Sorry but reading this whole thread and your replies makes me realise that your attitude towards your MIL is everything that is wrong with the world we live in !
You come across as bitter and selfish...you don’t appear to have too many of your own commitments ,so I can only assume you are jealous of your husbands relationship with his elderly Mum and any time that she takes up with him .
Unless you have had an abusive awful upbringing ,why would you resent helping out your elderly parents/ in laws ?

@dottiedaisee that’s part of the problem, other people deeming OP to not have too many of her own commitments . You aren’t in a position to determine that. Like a lot of people she may have a demanding job, her own health issues, volunteering responsibilities etc. Even if she does or doesn’t, it’s up to her how she spends her spare time

If you'd simply said you were too busy to visit the wallpaper shop (never mind staying while she looked for more) she'd have had to either do it herself or rearrange the decorator ... job done

If DH is on board with you saying that, then you are all good, so long as you remember to say these things so she gets used to not being able to bounce you into doing things.

If DH is not, there there is the problem.

In the main elderly people make no provision for their later years because they believe that their own children can be guilted into sacrificing their well-being. If said elderly people knew that this wasn't going to happen they would make better plans and we would all be the better for it

I think there's a lot in this, though it bears saying plenty of seniors don't think that way

That said, this thing of "I'd never expect my children to do it all" is often heard when folk are younger ... only they don't put anything in place, so when the time comes there are difficulties

'that’s part of the problem, other people deeming OP to not have too many of her own commitments'

Well said. All we know about OP's time is that she said she doesn't have children. That does not mean she is obliged to martyr herself being at her MIL's beck and call

I have seen this play out in my my mother's immediate family.

I had 3 uncles (the last died in 2019) who basically willingly gave up their own lives to stay at home with my grandmother - she completely emotionally blackmailed them into it, after my grandfather died in the late 60s. She died in the late 1990s, when they were all over the age of 60. Two of them had at least worked out of the house (one had a very successful business) but one spent his whole life in the basement...this particular uncle had a falling out with one of the others back in the early 80s and never spoke to him again....while still living in the same small house. None of them ever had a relationship, let alone marriage or children of their own. The whole thing was mental.

My mother left home in her early 20s and always vowed she would never expect any of her 3 children to do the same...but I've noticed in the last decade, since she turned 70, that her whole attitude has done nearly a complete 360 degree turn...lots of comments about 'how my grandmother had the right idea' etc. After my first divorce I nearly made the mistake of agreeing to get a flat with her...changed my mind at the last minute (thank goodness!).

I now live on the other side of the world. My mother has my younger brother to call on for help if need be, but he doesn't live with her. As the only girl I know she feels I've 'let her down' when it comes to all this, but there was no way on Earth I was going to be like my late Uncles...

Ok, I am back.
Thank you @Lottapianos and @EL8888, you are right. I don’t have to say what I do during the week, because what would be the point?
According to MIL, I’m ‘in a box until required to help’, so what difference would it make if I sat on my backside all week, or worked full time?
If people on the thread really want to know, I’ll tell you. I don’t expect anything different will be felt as you've made your mind up, but here goes:

On Mon Tues and Wed I work for the NHS**, condensed hours in a busy outpatients dept.
**The pandemic has made things obviously harder and busier than normal, so the 12months that MIL has had probably seems a lot longer to her than the 12months I’ve had that seem like two minutes.
Thurs is housework/ironing/washing etc to get it out of the way as dh is at work.
Friday is mine and dh’s day together to do what we want.
Saturday dh works so I do the weekly meal plan and the food shopping in the morning, then in the afternoon its my turn to relax and have some me time, hobbies like reading/listening to music/having a dabble with essential oils /diy recipes for facial scrubs and whatever. Dh comes home and it’s takeaway and beer time.
Sunday, day of rest.

Haven't read all responses. I think you just need to be clear in your own mind what you will and won't do, and have prepared responses for when she tries to ask for more than agreed. It's called being assertive. She is, wittingly or otherwise, manipulating you, and it sounds like you have caved many times. It's not surprising then that she keeps up the 'and while you're here, could you just... ' approach. TBH is is not that different from how we need to deal with our 15 yo who often pushes her luck too!

I think families should ideally support each other, but only if it's reasonable and relationships are good. It's not an entitlement.

My mil was in poor health for a number of years before her death. She was a lovely person and would never have asked anything of me (which made me feel guilty sometimes as I'm not as lovely as she was!). Dh and his sister did a huge amount for her, their brother less so, but to be fair the latter lived over an hour's drive away and DH and DSIL only a few minutes, so it wasn't a huge ask. Also I'm talking about organising care at home, taking her to hospital, getting prescriptions, not choosing wallpaper- real needs which she couldn't meet by herself. (FIL died 20 years previously).

Dh is milling about on the background so I’m hopping in and out, sorry.
Tomorrow I’ll answer some more things individually.

Do some people really feel adult children owe their parents nothing and that said parents should have the decency to book themselves into a care home (or, judging by one post on here, actually off themselves!!!) when they start to falter, rather than expect any support at all from their grown children?

I’d support my DM, I’d also support my soon to be ex MIL if she was close by.
What I think is hard is judging other people until you’ve walked in their shoes. They may legally have “family” but they may not feel like “family” because of what’s gone on over the years. Most people are posting because they have family issues rather than a supportive family, so I don’t think it reflects society accurately.

What I think is hard is judging other people until you’ve walked in their shoes. They may legally have “family” but they may not feel like “family” because of what’s gone on over the years. Most people are posting because they have family issues rather than a supportive family, so I don’t think it reflects society accurately

This ⬆️. I understand that people find it incredulous that I don’t want to become the PILs personal carer when the time comes. All I’ll be doing is filling in a gap that his dbro is leaving by ducking his responsibilities.

The dynamic in dh’s family is that DBIL has gotten away with helping for so long. He is the favourite, the first born so PIls are too scared/lazy to ask him to do everything, or anything rather.

He has the learned helplessness down to a tee, labelling dh as the ‘clever one’, ‘ask him to do it, he’s the clever one’, and the usual ‘oh sorry no, I couldn’t possibly’. I have seen their once close relationship turn into seething resentment from dh, and mocking from DBIL in the background.

As I said upthread, I am helping dh while he is helping the PILs, but they are getting older and I am not letting dh’s future retirement be marred by running round after them.

I stand by my decision not to fill in, but I probably do need to be more assertive, yes.

@noirchatsdeux

I have seen this play out in my my mother's immediate family.

I had 3 uncles (the last died in 2019) who basically willingly gave up their own lives to stay at home with my grandmother - she completely emotionally blackmailed them into it, after my grandfather died in the late 60s. She died in the late 1990s, when they were all over the age of 60. Two of them had at least worked out of the house (one had a very successful business) but one spent his whole life in the basement...this particular uncle had a falling out with one of the others back in the early 80s and never spoke to him again....while still living in the same small house. None of them ever had a relationship, let alone marriage or children of their own. The whole thing was mental.

My mother left home in her early 20s and always vowed she would never expect any of her 3 children to do the same...but I've noticed in the last decade, since she turned 70, that her whole attitude has done nearly a complete 360 degree turn...lots of comments about 'how my grandmother had the right idea' etc. After my first divorce I nearly made the mistake of agreeing to get a flat with her...changed my mind at the last minute (thank goodness!).

I now live on the other side of the world. My mother has my younger brother to call on for help if need be, but he doesn't live with her. As the only girl I know she feels I've 'let her down' when it comes to all this, but there was no way on Earth I was going to be like my late Uncles...

As the only girl I know she feels I've 'let her down' when it comes to all this, but there was no way on Earth I was going to be like my late Uncles...

Well, that’s just it. Guilt is the way we are made to feel just because we have a vagina, and I feel sad for your late uncles who gave up their lives. Very sad.

You’re probably assertive enough.

Helping her choose wallpaper wasn’t too much to ask. Men often defer on those choices, and she valued your opinion.

Stand back, let the sons rally, I’m sure the parents pick up on your dislike of them.

@Sundance2741

Haven't read all responses. I think you just need to be clear in your own mind what you will and won't do, and have prepared responses for when she tries to ask for more than agreed. It's called being assertive. She is, wittingly or otherwise, manipulating you, and it sounds like you have caved many times. It's not surprising then that she keeps up the 'and while you're here, could you just... ' approach. TBH is is not that different from how we need to deal with our 15 yo who often pushes her luck too!

I think families should ideally support each other, but only if it's reasonable and relationships are good. It's not an entitlement.

My mil was in poor health for a number of years before her death. She was a lovely person and would never have asked anything of me (which made me feel guilty sometimes as I'm not as lovely as she was!). Dh and his sister did a huge amount for her, their brother less so, but to be fair the latter lived over an hour's drive away and DH and DSIL only a few minutes, so it wasn't a huge ask. Also I'm talking about organising care at home, taking her to hospital, getting prescriptions, not choosing wallpaper- real needs which she couldn't meet by herself. (FIL died 20 years previously).

Haven't read all responses. I think you just need to be clear in your own mind what you will and won't do, and have prepared responses for when she tries to ask for more than agreed. It's called being assertive. She is, wittingly or otherwise, manipulating you, and it sounds like you have caved many times. It's not surprising then that she keeps up the 'and while you're here, could you just... ' approach. TBH is is not that different from how we need to deal with our 15 yo who often pushes her luck too!

Yes I agree, I need to be assertive.
What I have noticed is that she wants me to help them through dh, (manipulation by proxy, as somebody has said above), so I won’t say no.
For example dh driving mil and I to the wallpaper shop. Pushing her luck definitely.

Hopefully, your daughter is just going through a teenage phase and will stop. MIL is going to get worse.

@LilacLilyLoves

You’re probably assertive enough.

Helping her choose wallpaper wasn’t too much to ask. Men often defer on those choices, and she valued your opinion.

Stand back, let the sons rally, I’m sure the parents pick up on your dislike of them.

I don’t dislike them whatsoever.
It’s the blatant sexism and their treatment of dh that I dislike.

And yes, both sons need to rally.

I think a meeting should occur where all this gets thrashed out, between the PILs, dh and his brother.

I used to spend a regular day at my dm's for 'things that needed doing'. She used to add urgent things on late in the afternoon and then suggest I stay the night which I found really annoying.
I set a time limit in advance. 'I'll be down for breakfast Mum, and I need to be away by 5pm to meet X at 6.30.' I'd be pretty specific about tasks too.
When what she really wanted was company, and she was in her 80s, we arranged for someone to pop in during the week - home hairdresser, gardener once a week, cleaner once a week, home chiropodist, farm foods delivery, home manicure etc.
It gave her a reason to be up and tidy. Someone to make a cup of tea for. Something to chat about. We got to know the local taxi driver too so she could visit friends if she wanted. Much less expensive than moving into supported care, she could stay with her garden and was much happier, and we built a network of local tradespeople who had our number if she ever failed to answer the door.
It took a bit of organising but gave her independence for maybe an extra 10 years.

@TheUndoingProject

So you haven’t seen them for a year and after one afternoon choosing some wallpaper you’re worried about boundaries?

I wouldn’t really call your situation providing elderly help...

Yes. The title of this thread should be "how to set boundaries with in-laws I don't like"

It's nothing to do with care, and despite having my own issues with my mum and care, I find it sad that after not seeing MIL for a year, helping her choose wallpaper is such an unreasonable thing for the OP to feel obliged to do.

My DH is dead. I do for his mum, what he would want to do were he still here.

I've been lurking on this thread as thankfully my DPs are generally not too demanding, but I do worry about what will happen in the future.

I find what you're referring to @Mintjulia so irritating- the constant pressing of the boundaries, when you're already spending a goodly amount of time with them. It's so irksome as if I say No to the extra thing, I feel curmudgeonly and mean,but there is so much else to fit in as well.