It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

*compliant not complaint .Duh.

I'm also unsure why DH is so insistent on going with you. The trip in summer you could do without him. This is certainly something I would be suggesting.

They don't like each other, why are they all bending over backwards to spend time together

At work will check thread at lunch thanks everyone

My parents are also controlling and highly anxious, and this has now extended to the grandchildren - commenting on every single scratch, sniffle, etc. I've posted before and had helpful advice around FOG and referral to the stately home thread. Lots of posters are saying to stand up to the parents, and some are saying go no/low contact if they don't change their behaviour.

I do think for many, going no/low contact will lead to regret when the parents die. I feel immense guilt every time I vaguely stand up to my parents, and massively second guess myself. I think these feelings would be compounded once they're gone. I suspect the OP feels similarly from things she's said. How does one manage this?

OP have you had any therapy? You and your siblings would have naturally had sibling rivalry but your thread smacks of (your) parents who were avoidant and couldn't cope with conflict therefore you have most likely suppressed memories of this as children tend to do. The fact they they get so distressed by your children's distress is extremely telling about your own childhood. My parents are so similar to this and it has taken me a long time to understand what is going on and how messed up it all is. Good luck OP.

It makes me feel tense reading this as it reminds me of my own parent so much. You need boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. You need to strictly enforce these boundaries. It'll be hard, you've had a lifetime of training in pleasing your parents, but you can do it.

Some bland stock phrases are good, 'that's not how we do it', 'I don't think so', 'no, we'll do it the same way we usually do'. It going to feel awful when you do it you'll feel guilty and afraid, but I'll tell you now that you will be being perfectly reasonable, that you will protecting your husband, your children and yourself.

I used (and still do a bit) to struggle with figuring out what's reasonable behaviour re my parents, maybe you're the same? I'll start you off with it's perfectly reasonable not go on a family outing to John Lewis. It's perfectly reasonable to just meet up for a day, it's perfectly reasonable to visit them and not stay overnight.

Do they like being useful? Sometimes giving people a job helps, the devil makes work for idle hands and all that. If they mention John Lewis again could you say how much you'd appreciate a break if they would take the girls. It's been a hard year for everyone with kids and maybe they'd like to be useful and it would give you (and DH) a break.

@ancientgran

Do they like being useful? Sometimes giving people a job helps, the devil makes work for idle hands and all that. If they mention John Lewis again could you say how much you'd appreciate a break if they would take the girls. It's been a hard year for everyone with kids and maybe they'd like to be useful and it would give you (and DH) a break.

I think she's suggested that and they don't want to take the kids on their own.

One thing I have taken from your replies is that you are so worried about upsetting everyone involved, I think this is clouding how you see it. What would be your ideal solution? The children will survive if it is not a visit for that long. If your DH wants to be involved then he needs to get on with it and his feelings are not your responsibility. If your parents want to be critical then you need to have a way of dealing with it in the moment, again then being upset about you reasonably disciplining your dc is not your responsibility. You do not sound like a bad mum at all.

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun I know she had but I think presenting it as asking for help could get a different response if they like being helpful.

All of your posts resonate with me. Even the dark doom that descends upon a visit. My mum is the worst in terms of judgment and criticism, my dad just nods and sits quietly tbf. I have taken baby steps in terms of push back and the first time there were three months of firstly not speaking to me or visiting, then coming over but leaving immediately as she was too upset, then gradual rapprochement. I swore to myself that I would not apologise as I had done nothing wrong (asked her not to let down the kids at the last minute - they are super flaky and assume kids will fit around them). I think she definitely thinks I have always been difficult (I am not, I was reared to be a desperate people pleaser). We just keep reinforcing boundaries with them and also with kids. Kids know that they have a different style to us and we just talk about everyone being different. They hate the kids to be miserable if they are there - which comes from a good place but is tricky to achieve always. They do try to punish us through withdrawal or absence and we try to smile through it. My husband finds them very annoying but we figure we’ll be annoying our children and spouses some day too hopefully (altho’ obvs trying not to be controlling nightmares). And I think it’s more that his folks are more pass agg so I just let that wash over me and don’t register.
It does make me sad tho’ as they are lovely people but our dynamic is just them pushing and me resisting/shutting down lectures. Can’t be nice for them either.

I should add - I put boundaries and strategies in place to restrict contact to what worked. And my parents did die. And I didn't feel guilty. It was the right thing to do. Who wants memories of being driven round the bend by someone?

It's not as if it's working for the parents either. They're sulking, complaining, upset, not ... Putting it very charitably ... being their best selves.

The bit about the kids "adoring" the grandparents and being "devastated" - they haven't seen them in a year (a really long time for kids) and they've been fine. Kids don't discriminate between desire and satisfaction - same way as they want sugar, and video games, and to stay up late, regardless of the fact that all of these are not that great experiences and make them grumpy.

So many posts of people with similar situations or great advice! I can’t reply to everyone individually as on a break at work but I really appreciate every single reply. It is freaky how people can relate to the dark doom descending.

To answer the question what would I like to happen then I would like us to have a relaxed time when everyone enjoys seeing each other. This is what it’s like when we see my in-laws. Obviously there are little niggles at times but in general we all enjoy seeing each other.

"To answer the question what would I like to happen then I would like us to have a relaxed time when everyone enjoys seeing each other. This is what it’s like when we see my in-laws. Obviously there are little niggles at times but in general we all enjoy seeing each other".

Your inlaws are "normal" i.e emotionally healthy people to be around. Your parents are dysfunctional and you are still very much caught up in their whole dynamic right down to the people pleasing behaviours and low self worth. Their actions towards your children also are not loving ones and their actions do not define you as a person. You are not who they think you are or want you to be.

Both your parents feel entitled to treat you however they want to but the point is that your children witnessed the way they dismissed you.
I also think your parents have gone onto convince you that you are the problem where infact it is they who are the problem, not you.

Your parents may "love" their grandchildren but what is loving about treating that child’s mother or father with disregard and disrespect? Where is the example of love in that treatment?. Some parents want to be ‘right’ so badly that they will try to discredit you when it comes to your children for the sole purpose proving that they are right about you.

Ask yourself if you were loved and valued, would you even be considering going or staying no contact?

Ask yourself if your parents don’t treat you in the action of love, are they loving to your children and if you believe they are loving your children, think about how a parent who rejects their own child communicates love to the child of that rejected parent.

I would absolutely encourage you to seek therapy and thrash all this out asap before your own family unit becomes further harmed at your parents hands.

Thanks Atilla, I will look into the recommended books and will look into therapy in the future.

On reflection I think I was being overly positive saying DH and I stop speaking on night one! We are usually barely speaking to each other before we even see my parents as we have already had the traditional pre-visit row. It can’t go on so I will reread the thread and do some serious thinking.

But yes, they did indeed set rules and the Disney thing has only really started when they were grandparents. I have absolutely no problem with them not wanting to discipline but it is the fact that they start to cry when we are enforcing it with the kids

Have you told them this, OP? That you’re doing just what they did yet they’re getting upset-at behaviour they’ve taught you?!

I would honestly protect your dh and dc be brave and every time they strop or interfere, give them the cold stare and remind them, very firmly, that how you discipline/raise your kids is none of their fucking business.

We are usually barely speaking to each other before we even see my parents as we have already had the traditional pre-visit row

I’ve stopped asking my dh to come with me to see my family, he just can’t stand them. I know you said your dh gets offended if you try to insist he doesn’t come, so how about an Airbnb some distance from your parents (any handy nearby touristy areas?) and you tell them you’re visiting (tourist place) and do they want to see you? No pressure to stay at theirs.

An Airbnb or similar is the logical plan. What has always put me off is that my parents and my DC would all be so upset. Plus the cost. I do need to consider it though.

OP your post is making me think of The Work of Byron Katie - it's worth a Google and watch a few of her counselling sessions. What they think of you is not your business. When you have expectations of them, of the kids, of DH, you are in their heads not yours - and you're suffering because you think they all ought to be different rather than just living your life and letting them be- appreciating each one of them for who they are without having expectations.

I really feel like the Byron Katie approach might be quite liberating for you.

no axe to grind by the way, I don't have a franchise or shares in her company!it's just something I've used and like.

That sounds interesting, I’ll take a look.

I think what I need to unpick in my head is that to me, dealing with my parents would actually be quite easy:-
Tell them as little as possible about our lives
Downplay any illness or injury as they worry about minor colds, sniffles etc
Talk as little as possible about kids’ hobbies as they worry they will get too tired and certainly never talk about going for a run or a bike ride
Have no rules for DC behaviour while they are there
Accept it will be bloody awful and get on with it.

Unfortunately the rest of my family refuse to play ball! The kids seem to revert to toddler behaviour but at the same time chat away about everything, usually resulting in a concerned parental chat I have to deal with later. DH is polite but then almost seems to ignore them as much as possible and doesn’t modify his behaviour at all.

The dynamic is so wrong. It's no wonder it doesn't play out as you want.

You talk about how upset your kids will be a lot. Why is that? I don't think it's a sign that things are all that healthy.

If you do the Airbnb idea, you tell your DC that they are going on holiday to xx and you can do all sorts of lovely things. Oh and grandma and grandad will be coming to see us on x day, how lovely.

I don't understand why they would be upset at that, unless your parents are making comments to them that it's not enough etc etc. That would be bordering on emotional abuse.

Modify his behaviour

Why should he?

His house, doing nothing wrong

My love your parents have done an absolute number on you. The unbelievably well behaved kid, the never argued with brother

This is exactly a product of your childhood but in a slightly different form

They can’t come to your house (dh is still twitchy about Covid, no overnight stays until you’ve both been jabbed too etc etc)

Stop being a martyr to your kids

You’re the parent, your parents are destroying your relationship and your family in a death by 1000 cuts

Your h is clumsily telling you hell no to the visit, and you want him to just suck it up

Cancel the visit, put it off to the summer, offer to meet half way and that is the only plan that will work when it comes to communication with your kids

You have to do things differently for things to change

They want you to just slip back into the same old same old

You do that? Your marriage may be at risk at some point