It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

I think my parents view children (all children judging by their comments about other kids) as fragile and easily breakable / damaged. Which explains why they do not want them to hear negative comments or be upset or be tired or ill. They want to eliminate risk. So essentially keep a child in a safe box where they are never challenged but also never do anything fun! Absolutely no idea how to challenge this belief. Their behaviour about Covid has been sensible, rational and a measured degree of anxiety. Yet their behaviour in the rest of their lives is super anxious!

What would be the reaction if you rolled your eyes at your parents about one of their chats and said "not this again you've had your go at parenting it's our turn now" or you just said "not this again, I'm not interested in hearing it"?

After reading all your updates, I agree within PP about how you seem to worry about your parents’ happiness, and about appeasing them, far more than your husband’s happiness. It sounds like you also feel he is being mean if he doesn’t appease him. I feel very sorry for him when it appears he is the one doing what is right for his family. He appears to understand how damaging your parents are and how he needs to protect his family.
You worry about your children’s happiness. Have you wondered about how happy your children would be if you push your husband so much, make him feel so little respected and loved by you, that he decides he can’t cope being in a marriage with someone who prioritises their parents over their husband?
You need to listen to him more, think about how you want YOUR family to be, think about YOUR family’s happiness. Your children’s relationship with their father and mother is more important than their relationship with their grandparents.

@TooStressyTooMessy

I think my parents view children (all children judging by their comments about other kids) as fragile and easily breakable / damaged. Which explains why they do not want them to hear negative comments or be upset or be tired or ill. They want to eliminate risk. So essentially keep a child in a safe box where they are never challenged but also never do anything fun! Absolutely no idea how to challenge this belief. Their behaviour about Covid has been sensible, rational and a measured degree of anxiety. Yet their behaviour in the rest of their lives is super anxious!

You don't challenge it, you ignore it. You shut them when they start and don't engage. You can't change their behavior, only your reaction to it. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR HAPPINESS. If they are too anxious to be around or hear about normal family behavior then they can't be around it or hear about it. Your DH doesn't modify his behavior you say. Why should he? Why are you so desperate to contort yourself to stop them feeling any discomfort, when it's making the rest of you miserable? Why are your parents more important than your children and your husband?

@RandomMess

What would be the reaction if you rolled your eyes at your parents about one of their chats and said "not this again you've had your go at parenting it's our turn now" or you just said "not this again, I'm not interested in hearing it"?

I expect they would have to go and "lie down" and be terribly insulted and OP would end up smoothing things over.

Honestly, you’re arguing with H about this .

A visit that’s supposed to be positive- but it won’t be

So cancel it and meet half way somewhere

Reset the narrative starting today

Why are your parents more important than your children and your husband?

This. You are damaging the family you created in a hopeless attempt to appease them. Hopeless because it will never happen, they sound like people who enjoy being miserable. Emotional vampires.

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun I suspect the op wouldn't dare because she has been so condition to appease and not rock the boat.

[quote RandomMess]@OrangeBlossomsinthesun I suspect the op wouldn't dare because she has been so condition to appease and not rock the boat.[/quote]
Yes, I understand that. I was the same with my mother.

Absolutely. OP has been conditioned to accept this from her parents without question since early childhood.

Also, you say they aren't anxious about covid, which suggests to me that this is more how they manipulate people around them. It's how they interact and control other people's lives. Covid isn't an issue because they aren't trying to control themselves iyswim.
Dressing it up as concern about the children makes it harder for you to push back against and has the added advantage of making you question yourself and feel guilty.

@TooStressyTooMessy I have a suggestion

Look at the way you feel when you’re with your husbands parents

How you’re relaxed, how dh is relaxed, the kids behave exactly as they do when they’re at home with just you and dh.

THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE!

Please take your husband’s lead in this, the reason your kids play up is (because all kids are like this) they see a huge gaping chink in your armour and they’re exploiting it. This then pisses off your h because he can see it, and he can see you flapping about trying to get everyone else to modify their behaviour because of your interfering, hyper critical and frankly lunatic parents.

Stop. Just stop.

You will never ever achieve anything different by carrying on exactly as you were and allowing these emotional terrorists to keep coming at you.

“Sorry M&D, change of plans. going to have to call off the visit in may, but let’s meet half way at and have a catch up afternoon instead. We’re not ready for overnight stays yet”

If they say anything other than agreeing to it, call the whole thing off

“Ok M&D, we’ve suggested something we’re happy to do, you’re not, let’s leave it for now”

And then leave it.

Dressing it up as concern about the children makes it harder for you to push back against and has the added advantage of making you question yourself and feel guilty.

I HATE this kind of manipulation- it’s so hard, so mean and unpleasant

I always see this for what it is and cut anyone who tries this from my circle.

Not read everything but why not let grandparents deal with them solo. Drop them off at the John Lewis with them and go live your life. They’ll do realise they’ll be bankrupt or shattered if they don’t also enforce discipline. They’ll also probably suddenly realise how the price of kids stuff has skyrocketed to what it was before.

@TooStressyTooMessy

Beryl, I have suggested that so many times but they want to all be together as apparently they have also come to see me and DH .

Well they can see you at night.

[quote MzHz]@TooStressyTooMessy I have a suggestion

Look at the way you feel when you’re with your husbands parents

How you’re relaxed, how dh is relaxed, the kids behave exactly as they do when they’re at home with just you and dh.

THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE!

Please take your husband’s lead in this, the reason your kids play up is (because all kids are like this) they see a huge gaping chink in your armour and they’re exploiting it. This then pisses off your h because he can see it, and he can see you flapping about trying to get everyone else to modify their behaviour because of your interfering, hyper critical and frankly lunatic parents.

Stop. Just stop.

You will never ever achieve anything different by carrying on exactly as you were and allowing these emotional terrorists to keep coming at you.

“Sorry M&D, change of plans. going to have to call off the visit in may, but let’s meet half way at and have a catch up afternoon instead. We’re not ready for overnight stays yet”

If they say anything other than agreeing to it, call the whole thing off

“Ok M&D, we’ve suggested something we’re happy to do, you’re not, let’s leave it for now”

And then leave it.[/quote]
Exactly. Brilliant advice.

@MzHz I think maybe I knew you in a past life/username. I used to be badtogood. You gave me such support and good advice years ago. Apologies if I've got the wrong person.

You also need to tell your parents that your children act up more when they are there because you have forced them to have no boundaries. On the John Lewis thing, take them in the car together, ditch them in the shop. Say “ we’re just off for a 15 min walk alone, we’ll meet you at the cash desk on floor 5 then, we’ve have zero time alone in lockdown, please look after the kids”

If they hate your DH why are they coming to stay in what is his home too? I can't understand why you'd subject him to that.

& You're pushing him to get the house looking good prior to their visit. All of this is quite bullying in itself.

Just let them know you can't host them as they are over-critical and that doesn't work for you.

You have your own family to tend to and consider now, your parents shouldn't even be your priority.

Also any time they say something about your eldest say “ so is that acceptable at high school, she’ll get picked on”

Hi OP. I've read all your posts and some but not all the replies. I have to say, I am concerned that despite pages and pages of excellent advice (plus the fact that you've posted before and presumably got the same), you still seem absolutely fixed on this idea that your parents should visit you, you should visit them, and it will be awful but everyone just has to grin and bear it. No they don't! You are subjecting your husband and children to a huge amount of unnecessary stress and negativity (the arguments between you and your husband, for a start, which no doubt affect the children as well) all because you have unresolved issues which are preventing you from setting boundaries with your parents. For the sake of your marriage and your children, GET THERAPY.

If your husband was posting on here, I (and no doubt others) would tell him that he has a DW problem, not just a PIL problem. It's no wonder he doesn't want to see them, given the batshit way they behave and the batshit way you attempt to appease them, at great cost.

I can also sort of understand why he doesn't want you and the DCs to see them without him... perhaps he feels that he needs to be present to be aware of what's happening and to "protect" them in a way by trying to enforce some parenting boundaries (although it obviously doesn't work and creates issues, I can imagine why he might do it). Also if he knows that your parents don't like him it could be hurtful for him to be excluded.

On this issue it does seem that you are choosing your parents over him

I strongly advise you to read "Toxic Parents" and I expect he would benefit from reading "Toxic In-laws" by Susan Forward.

Also, listen to Attila. She talks a lot of sense!

PS On a practical note I think you should be meeting them halfway for the day only. Absolutely no overnight visits in either direction. You are over invested in this idea that your children and parents will be devastated at not being able to spend more time together. Well they survived lockdown didn't they?! As a parent your role is to make difficult decisions for your children, and just as you wouldn't let them eat unlimited amounts of food that's bad for them, you also need to carefully ration their time exposed to these toxic people.

Have your parents been critical of you your entire life? It seems like it from your posts.

Maybe that’s why you were such a good kid, and why you are such a people pleaser now.

My mum is very similar to your parents and thinks it’s cruel not to let my kids run wild (especially my son). But we live nearby and she provides regular childcare so she now disciplines more often, and no longer interferes when I discipline as she finally understands how the kids use her to get away with things. There have been a lot of arguments over the years and she still winds me up by telling me about all of these amazing energetic earth mothers she knows. Or says ‘are you sure you can manage that’ about everything that I try. Or just taking over completely by doing me favours that mean that I don’t get to do the grown up things that make you feel like you’re a real adult.

It’s very difficult as I know she means well and is just being nice. But that safe little box thing really resonates with how she treats me and I’m mid 30s.

I really think you need to treat your kids like you always do when you’re with them and when they say something try your best to ignore them, or just say ‘I’m the parent, it’s my decision’ over and over.

They know that your that kids need discipline really, that’s why they never take them out on their own.

Why should be modify his behaviour? I guess I really struggle to see why he shouldn’t. To be it’s a no brainier - he should modify it to avoid an argument with my parents or worse, to avoid the huge stress I am under and the dark dark clouds and fretful looks and tuts. What actually makes me really annoyed is the tutting and looks don’t seem to bother him but I get more and more stressed. If keeping quiet and staying out of the way would improve the situation then why won’t he do it? I sort of feel as if he won’t do this one thing for me. I know I am being unreasonable. In daily life we are fine, it’s just when we see my mum and dad. I would absolutely love it if someone took my kids out for the day! He does feel really hurt and excluded and I suppose I view that as incredibly juvenile and annoying. We would all have a better time if he stayed at home but I can’t tell him that of course.

The reason I think the DC would be upset is that they themselves ask to stay longer. They would happily stay for a week! Plus I don’t think it is altogether surprising that they really want to see relatives they love having been separated for months and months due to Covid. Thousands of people are in the same position desperate to relatives surely.

Maybe they do enjoy being miserable! That makes a huge amount of sense actually. My Dad enjoys moaning at everyone and my Mum enjoys fretting.

Yep, PP are correct. If I ignore them or roll my eyes, or challenge them then these are the likely outcomes:-

First they exchange looks. Both go silent and tut. My Mum looks as if she will cry. My Dad stops speaking. They both look concerned and keep exchanging concerned looks. I feel incredibly stressed and upset as I just want us to get along.

They say things like:-
They are so fragile at this age
They are so young (they are 8 and 10!!!)
You push them too much
You need to be careful of their little bodies

No, no, no crying or telling off while we are here, this is a happy time etc

We are only thinking of them dear. Don’t you think you should be more careful.

They ask the kids if they are tired or upset.

My Dad goes upstairs to lie down. My mum says he is very upset and any crying makes him feel unwell.

Later they phone or pull me aside to tell me they are worried about us and that I mustn’t forget how young the children are. At night they whisper in loud voices to say all of the above to each other again, also that DH is horrible and I am scared of him.

The worst bit is they tell me I seem very stressed .

I really fear they see me as this stressed, anxious mess as that is how I am when we are with them.

So basically you want your DH to behave like a scared kid around your parents

He's a grown up.

You can't control his behaviour.

Your parents are trying to break you up. Choose wisely.

The absolute best thing about my DH is that he has my back when I'm dealing with my batshit family.

"Why should be modify his behaviour? I guess I really struggle to see why he shouldn’t. To be it’s a no brainier - he should modify it to avoid an argument with my parents or worse, to avoid the huge stress I am under and the dark dark clouds and fretful looks and tuts. What actually makes me really annoyed is the tutting and looks don’t seem to bother him but I get more and more stressed. If keeping quiet and staying out of the way would improve the situation then why won’t he do it? I sort of feel as if he won’t do this one thing for me. I know I am being unreasonable. In daily life we are fine, it’s just when we see my mum and dad. I would absolutely love it if someone took my kids out for the day! He does feel really hurt and excluded and I suppose I view that as incredibly juvenile and annoying. We would all have a better time if he stayed at home but I can’t tell him that of course."

When I read this, and everything else you've written about your husband, I worry for the future of your marriage. I really feel for him actually. If my DH had thought and behaved like you (in the context of his dysfunctional family dynamics) we wouldn't be married any more.

You are deep in the FOG and seem to have no interest in getting out of it. Much easier for your husband to just get in line. I guess reading the books and getting the therapy and doing some soul searching and setting the boundaries is just too difficult and painful isn't it?

It's your children who will suffer, ultimately.