It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

Boundary setting too is very hard when you've basically been conditioned and or otherwise told not to have any. Her parents, father in particular, may well see the OP as an extension of them.

No overnight stays would likely do OPs family the world of good. There has to be consequences for her parents actions. Why are their views apparantly so important?. I think if OP was to say no they would be thoroughly hacked off with her rather than feel rejected.

@dorothy001

I know OP isn't considering LC. I can just completely imagine how suggesting no overnight would land with the grandparents, based on how she's described them. It would feel like a big rejection that's come from nowhere, especially after a year apart due to covid. I don't think that day out would have a particularly pleasant atmosphere.

I'm just going against the grain a bit and wondering if the OP might have a final go at being really clear about her boundaries, but also being kind and open to her parents changing their behaviour. If they then don't change their behaviour, then she'll know she's tried her best and can then work on building distance.

I think we can all imagine the atmosphere all too well 😁 and know exactly what you mean about wishing to avoid it. But you're suggesting "being really clear about boundaries" while at the same time saying that OP should just do what her parents want or there will be an atmosphere. It's contradictory.

"On the phone after the visit I then get a concerned list of all the issues".

Aka a laundry list of your supposed shortcomings. Its control disguised as concern. Fear of them plays a huge part of them in how and why you behave as you do around them and your own family unit now.

I sincerely hope you do find a therapist (and one at that who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment) soon.

Can you cut off the after-visit postmortem then OP? Say the words 'Mum, Dad, it was LOVELY to see you' and if they start to move into critical/concerned territory you need to cut them off (laugh!) and say you are only interested in hearing positive/happy things about the visit. They will be utterly bemused by this despite the fact that it's what they mandate from you.

If they try to continue say you're afraid you'll have to end the call there if they can't be positive. If they protest you need to calmly say you're sorry to hear that, but that you will have to go now. Then hang up.

The phone is your friend here. I so enjoyed training my emotionally draining mother into better manners once I'd left home, it was superbly freeing.

@TooStressyTooMessy

That’s exactly my thinking dorothy001

rogueone your post is really freakishly accurate. They do exactly that. They know my DH doesn’t care what they think so they wait until he leaves to relay all their concerns. On the phone after the visit I then get a concerned list of all the issues.

You have jumped at Dorothy's option because you want to avoid confrontation but it's a halfway house that won't solve anything. Doing ANYTHING other than the status quo will be a confrontation so you may as well bite the bullet and make sure it suits you.

Yes that would definitely work for the phone call, thanks Immunety.

I think I’ll have to change the status quo anyway and so conflict is inevitable as most of you say. What I want to happen is not possible unless I am on my own with my parents. To have the visit I want would require picture perfect behaviour from my DDs (I already know this will not happen as I am aware their behaviour is always appalling with my parents ) and my DH to smile and nod (I know him well and know he won’t do this, he will either say something or walk off angry).

I am aware I am being so, so unreasonable here but I am finding it so hard to get my head round why you wouldn’t either just leave or just smile and nod, wait for the visit to be over and then go back to normal life. There is absolutely no way he will do that though. Why invite conflict where none would exist if everyone just played the game.

Again, I know I am so in the wrong but I feel really let down my my family when my parents are here. I feel they won’t do this one thing for me every couple of months or so. It feels as if I beg them to behave (DDs and DH), prep them so much for the need to behave and just smile through the weekend and nobody bloody does it. Then it would be done for the next couple of months. Easy.

I am aware I am being so, so unreasonable here but I am finding it so hard to get my head round why you wouldn’t either just leave or just smile and nod, wait for the visit to be over and then go back to normal life. There is absolutely no way he will do that though. Why invite conflict where none would exist if everyone just played the game.

Have you asked yourself why you are willing to tolerate and enable the exact same behaviour — and worse - from your parents, but you’re not willing to tolerate it from your husband?

Where does that put him in the hierarchy?

Turn it on its head.

Why do you parents not just smile and nod??

2 of them versus 4 of you and they want the visits?

Why should your nuclear smile and nod and behave in an alien way rather than your parents?

You know how parents should love and support you? Why are they excused from doing that?

OP I really feel for you, your parents’ behaviour sounds stressful!
But... It’s quite likely that the reason your DDs’ behaviour is worse when their GPs are around is because you are changing yours. You’ve said that you and DH have worked hard to try and meet in the middle with the too hard/too soft dynamic, but whenever your parents are around that goes completely out of the window - you go to the extreme of not giving any discipline which means he then feels he has to go the other way(making him look like the bad guy in front of your parents!), and the kids get thrown off because all their normal boundaries have shifted. You can’t change how your parents behave, you can only control how you react to it. Be a strong team with DH, keep the boundaries consistent for your DC, there’s 3 members of your immediate family that you live with every day, how they feel has to be more important than the 2 people you all spend a few days with every few months.

In the hierarchy of happiness I would put my parents first, then DDs, then DHs then mine but I would hope he put my happiness about his to balance it out. Surely any parent puts their child’s happiness first. I put my own parents top as is it so difficult to make them happy that more effort needs to be put in there, at least while I am there.

My parents genuinely seem to have absolutely no idea how unhappy their own behaviour makes me and I just can’t find the words to get them to understand. Most of their criticisms are implied, they don’t come out and say most of them, it’s the sighs, the lie downs, the ‘no crying or upset rule’. They absolutely think they are trying to protect my kids from my inadequate parenting and my DH’s strict parenting (in their eyes).

"They won't do this one thing" - your kids can't, because they're kids, and why the hell should your dh?

It's NOT "easy peasy" to smile and nod through a weekend where you're constantly being attacked, frowned at, scowled at, disapproved of, sulked over, and undermined, and you should not be asking this of your husband.

I feel they won’t do this one thing for me every couple of months or so. It feels as if I beg them to behave (DDs and DH), prep them so much for the need to behave and just smile through the weekend and nobody bloody does it. Then it would be done for the next couple of months. Easy.

It’s not easy though, is it? ‘Be perfect for three days, even though the definition of perfection might vary depending on what your grandparents choose to care about, be agile in responding to their moods even if they’re totally nonsensical, don’t mention x y or z, and essentially bury any sense of your actual self.

I get the feeling that you were so heavily conditioned by them that it’s easy for you.

But what you’re asking is more or less impossible for excited children being spoiled by grandparents, and who weren’t conditioned in the way you were. My kids’ behaviour with their (excellent) grandparents always goes a bit to shit because they’re spoiled a bit, and then they’re competing for our attention, and everything is just different and most kids struggle with that.

And while it may not be impossible for your husband it’s bloody unfair to ask it of him. ‘Please submit to criticism, judgement and open dislike in your own home for a number of days, smile and accept it. I will not defend or protect you’ is a pretty bitter pill to swallow when administered by your wife.

I think the first thing you need to challenge in yourself is the idea that ‘nod, smile, behave perfectly’ is easy for anyone who hasn’t spent a lifetime perfecting it in response to these people.

Surely any parent puts their child’s happiness first. I put my own parents top

You know this doesn't make sense, right?

WTF your parents are more important than your DC??

Your parents are adults they are responsible for their own happiness!!!

I know rationally you are all right.

Random, I have absolutely no idea why they don’t smile and nod. It’s the polite and kind thing to do. I have spent years of my life trying to figure out why they do smile and nod. But then my kids and DH don’t either. The only one of the 6 of us smiling and nodding is me!!!!!!

I'd say what I'd say to a parent of young children.

Say no as little as possible to them; say positive stuff instead; but you don't do things that are impractical for you. So they say 'John Lewis' and you say 'ooh lovely idea for just us but with the kids I want them running around, let's go to [local beauty spot/country park] and I'll do a picnic. Any sandwich requests? Can you bring chairs for yourselves?'

I don’t put them top on a daily basis. Absolutely in normal life my kids and top are top. What I am saying is while we are altogether seeing each other, in the short time I spend with my parents I put their happiness top. Just like I would if a friend or my brother came to stay in pre Covid times. When you have guests in your house, you what them to have a good time. Surely that is normal.

My kids and DH are top I should say.

I know rationally you are all right

Then do something! Your parents aren't going to smile and nod, your kids can't, and there's no reason your DH should!

In the hierarchy of happiness I would put my parents first, then DDs, then DHs then mine but I would hope he put my happiness about his to balance it out. Surely any parent puts their child’s happiness first. I put my own parents top as is it so difficult to make them happy that more effort needs to be put in there, at least while I am there.

But why? Why is their happiness during that period more important than his? Because they are difficult? Hard to please?

You are essentially rewarding their appalling behaviour, especially towards your husband, by prioritising the effort you are willing to put into making them happy rather than putting it into protecting and supporting your husband.

Your parents’ happiness is not your responsibility. They are indulging - and it is indulgent! - in behaviours that undermine and hurt your spouse.

Who is your priority, overall - him or them?

I know you think it’s ‘only a few days.’ But the message you are sending your husband is much more fundamental than that. You are willing to see him get hurt and enable that hurt in an effort to make someone else happy.

They don't need to smile and nod because you are there spinning plates trying to placate them and create a fantasy they want.

They behaviour is beyond rude and unkind it's emotionally abusive.

I want guests to have a good time, but it's a bit weird if their good time entails being horrible to members of my household. At that point, I don't care about their good time. You literally cannot make them happy anyway.... all you can do is make everyone else unhappy.

n the short time I spend with my parents I put their happiness top. Just like I would if a friend or my brother came to stay in pre Covid times. When you have guests in your house, you what them to have a good time. Surely that is normal.

Would you accept the behaviour you’re getting from your parents from any other guest? Would you change how you parent for any other visitor? Don’t forget there’s ‘normal’ behaviour for guests too, and that doesn’t include undermining your hosts’ parenting...

Jassy yes because they are difficult and hard to please.

It requires a monumental effort on my part to keep them happy while also keeping my kids behaving and keeping my DH quiet. I actually don’t think I can do it anymore. Especially as I start days in advance basically begging them to behave. I run around the kids and DH just firefighting the whole time and nothing I say works anyway.

Just like I would if a friend or my brother came to stay in pre Covid times. When you have guests in your house, you what them to have a good time. Surely that is normal.

You want them to have a good time within reason. They are still responsible for their own behaviour and their own happiness. Being a good host does not mean being a doormat.

If a friend was in your house and started criticising and abusing your husband to his face, would you nod and smile? Invite them back to do it again and again?

If a friend ranted at you that your parenting was awful and you were damaging your children, with no evidence expect you let them ride a bike, would you invite them back?

If your brother walked in and started listing all the things that were wrong in your house and telling you that you were lazy not to sort it, would you smile and apologise and take it?