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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

493 replies

TooStressyTooMessy · 20/04/2021 13:01

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful BlushSad.

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

OP posts:
OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 22/04/2021 19:24

@AnotherEmma

I'm not going to advise you about what to say to them, because I think you need to read 'Toxic Parents' first. The key will be to accept that the goal is to make your point (whatever that is) and not to get a certain reaction out of them, because they're unlikely to react the way you'd like them to.
Yes you need to read Toxic Parents before you talk to them.

It's so hard, I've been there, it's terrifying, but you have to do it.

TooStressyTooMessy · 22/04/2021 19:53

UPDATE: I went off piste sorry and spoke to my Dad before reading the book. It turns out we need to change the time of the visit now anyway as DD1 has a thing on one of the days. So I needed to speak to them anyway.

I said various words about kids being over excited and trying to avoid stress and there would need to be discipline. This did not appear to form a coherent sentence and Dad said he wasn’t sure what my point was or the gist of what I was trying to say Grin. To be fair he was right, I just said words!

So I said it has been a long time since we have seen each other and I would like to talk about the visit in advance. I always find the visits stressful, I know you and Mum don’t agree with everything we do in terms of discipline of pushing the children but they need boundaries and we are confident and happy in what we are doing (yes I lied, I am not a confident parent regarding discipline!). They are 8 and 10 now and are no longer toddlers.

I said of course they would have their own opinions with what we did but I feel constantly criticised. If they did wish to criticise or discuss our parenting could they please do that in the car on the way home.

Then I did say I know they love the girls and do really appreciate everything they do for us and them.

It wasn’t a disaster. He said ok and ‘I think we understand each other’.

OP posts:
Immunetypegoblin · 22/04/2021 20:04

Well, you sound like you took heart from that conversation OP, and tbh it might be easier to communicate with your dad over the phone as you aren't reacting to his expressions/body language etc. I hope that next time you see them in person they will have made some changes. Time will tell though, obviously!

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 22/04/2021 20:11

A good start. Now read the book before you see them and think about those boundaries and how to enforce them.
Talk to DH as well about all this. You need to work as a team.

EmmaOvary · 22/04/2021 20:20

OP, consider this. What if NOTHING you, your kids or your husband did would stop the disapproval and comments from your parents? Really consider that.

Because it's true. Their behaviour is not about yours. It's their behaviour. They want to be this way, and they will find a way to find fault no matter what you do. You will NEVER get their approval, because approval is not on their bandwidth.

AnotherEmma · 22/04/2021 20:20

Well done, it's a start.
What are you doing about the visit? Did you say it should be halfway? Or are they still staying overnight at your house?

Babygotblueyes · 22/04/2021 20:24

@TooStressyTooMessy

Babygotblueeyes did you have the conversation over the phone or in person? Realistically I will have to have a difficult conversation before they come.

I have already had the conversation you described and they did improve slightly, I am just absolutely dreading having to have it again. Especially over the telephone where I will have to either have an awkward speakerphone conversation or have it twice.

I did it in person but I think phone would probably be a better idea. I know it is hard but better to do it sooner rather than later. Email would work too because it is clear, but a bit impersonal.
Diamondnights · 22/04/2021 20:33

You were probably not a naturally exceptionally compliant child, you were bullied and trained into behaving as one to avoid parental anger/ disapproval.

Make it clear to them what behaviour from them you will and will not accept (or you will leave).

Don't let your children be their grandparents 'golden children' at the expense of you and your husband being the scapegoats.

I so hope that you find a path through this. Flowers

TooStressyTooMessy · 22/04/2021 20:54

I am a bit overwhelmed by all the support on here and am truly grateful. I feel I should be honest then and say that the plan is for them to still stay the night Blush.

I’ve always assumed I was naturally ‘good’ so it’s interesting to wonder if actually I wasn’t.

Babygotblueeyes, thanks, yes I can see the positives of over the phone.

EmmaOvary What if NOTHING you, your kids or your husband did would stop the disapproval and comments from your parents?
If that is the case and of course it probably will be, what I would like is for their disapproval not to bother me, to almost be able to laugh it off. I get what they may just like to complain but I find it so hard to understand. I can moan with the best of them but why would you actually choose to spend your life finding fault with others?

OP posts:
Phineyj · 22/04/2021 21:31

What were their parents like? My DP can be critical although not as bad as this. They both had rather problematic parents themselves.

This is beginning to sound like that Philip Larkin poem!

TooStressyTooMessy · 22/04/2021 21:36

Very much like the poem!

My Mum’s parents were (I think) absolutely lovely. My Mum did have a brother who died as a baby though who was never really spoken of so I suspect some sad times as well.

My Dad’s parents... oh my goodness. They had a big family. He was the only academic child. He was put on a very high pedestal and was an absolute golden child. They thought the sun absolutely shone out of him and compared him really favourably to his brothers and sisters. I always felt sorry for my aunts and uncles growing up with that and it meant that my Dad takes any criticism really badly as he was never criticised when younger.

OP posts:
NeilBuchananisBanksy · 22/04/2021 21:36

Why is the plan for them to still stay?

I think you are going to learn the hard way from this. Nothing has really changed.

They won't. Actions speak louder than words.

Have you sat down with your H and had a detailed chat about all this? You need to.

Cavagirl · 22/04/2021 22:25

OP I think you have two possibilities with the May visit, if you and your DH still want to go ahead:

  1. they stay as planned and you use it as an opportunity to practise changing your response to their behaviour
  2. you use amending the plan to a day trip/neutral ground as an opportunity to practise changing your response to their behaviour

The lowest risk option is the second, frankly. This just involves you, so you won't have an audience to worry about. Doing #1 runs a huge risk that it's too difficult for you, your DH is pissed off, you feel like a failure, and the whole downward spiral continues.

#2 is also the most uncomfortable option, obviously, because it explicitly changes things from your parents' perspective. It will be the thing you're screaming internally not to do.

As PP said, talking to your DH about all of this, and urgently investigating some therapy also on the To Do list.

TooStressyTooMessy · 22/04/2021 23:01

DH has I think given up and just says to do what I think is right.

Honestly, saying just a day visit feels like the nuclear option. The main reason isDDs will be extremely upset as they have already waited a year to see grandparents for real and then I would be saying it’s just for a few hours. They are already upset that I have told them two nights in summer not three. My parents also would be furious and I would still feel stressed about her whole situation. I know objectively it is sensible but I just don’t think I’m ready for it.

OP posts:
ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 22/04/2021 23:19

Do your DD's know that their behaviour is a reason for the shorter visits?

CraftyYankee · 22/04/2021 23:22

It might be worth looking into the grey rock routine. A key phrase is "I'm sorry you feel that way." Do not change your usual behavior just because they are there, and don't get drawn into a fight.

"Don't criticize the girls, it's damaging them"
"I'm sorry you feel that way."

"They lost at a board game and had a tantrum, I must go lie down from the trauma."
"I'm sorry you feel that way."

It's quite freeing actually. You are not responsible for their bizarre reactions.

candycane222 · 22/04/2021 23:22

Op I know this has already been said, and I know I am being harsh, but you must absolutely stop altering your parenting behavior to "please" / appease your parents. And also stop begging your kids to "behave" Your eldest is already 10. If she hasn't noticed what a craven drip you are around your dps, she soon will. And she won't respect you for it. And as for wishing your dh would surrender your joint ideas of what sort of boundaries and expectations are best for your girls, in a vain attempt to make them and you more comfortable - that's outrageous. You are asking him to misparent his children to spare your anxiety.

You Are Not Upsetting Your Parents. THEY ARE! This is on them. If they want to upset themselves, that's their business. But if they undermine your parenting and YOU LET THEM then you are telling your children that you and their dad are bad parents, but only remember how bad when granny anc grandad come by andvremind you. What a thoroughly bizzarre message to give your children. No wonder your dh is furious.

Your fear of your parents is so bad you are hurting you are hurting your own family out of terror. And you call your dps anxious!! Find your anger, OP.

Comtesse · 23/04/2021 06:18

An observation - OP you seem frightened by your parents emotions AND your children’s.

I regularly make my children furious because I won’t buy them things, or turn off the telly, say no to playdates because of covid or not give them sweets. Too Bad! I am the grown up and I decide. I have to make decisions that are not popular. It’s not about ignoring those emotions but they are not the deciding factor.

I don’t know if you have ever had counselling but I think it could be very beneficial. Sounds like you would have a lot to talk about. Feels like you are buffeted around in all directions right now Flowers

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 23/04/2021 06:35

You are the parent. You decide. Your daughters might not like it, but you enforce other boundaries your children don't like, what's different about this one?
Also, I'd wager there's a certain amount of mind reading and projection about their reactions on your part. And even if they are terribly disappointed to have a shorter visit with the grandparents, it won't kill them.
I think it's more about you trying to avoid taking control.
I don't think it's a good sign that your DH has "given up" and told you to do what you think is best. I'm sure you're relieved by that, because it means you can avoid confrontation but it's a bad sign for your marriage.
If you aren't careful he will just decide NONE of it is worth the hassle. Don't let that happen.

It's veeeeery far from the nuclear option. It feels like that because you have no boundaries whatsoever.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 23/04/2021 06:37

I agree that you would benefit from therapy with someone who understands toxic families. You have a lot to unpick.

Comtesse · 23/04/2021 06:44

Agree with Orange here - this is so NOT the nuclear option. That might be going no contact for 10 years. Preferring a day trip instead is really really minor. Your perceptions are out of whack - you don’t have to be a “good girl” now, what can your parents actually do if you are “disobedient”?

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 23/04/2021 06:50

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

You are the parent. You decide. Your daughters might not like it, but you enforce other boundaries your children don't like, what's different about this one? Also, I'd wager there's a certain amount of mind reading and projection about their reactions on your part. And even if they are terribly disappointed to have a shorter visit with the grandparents, it won't kill them. I think it's more about you trying to avoid taking control. I don't think it's a good sign that your DH has "given up" and told you to do what you think is best. I'm sure you're relieved by that, because it means you can avoid confrontation but it's a bad sign for your marriage. If you aren't careful he will just decide NONE of it is worth the hassle. Don't let that happen.

It's veeeeery far from the nuclear option. It feels like that because you have no boundaries whatsoever.

This!!

The nuclear option is a day visit? Blimey. What would you count going NC then?!

Why are your children so involved in the decision making? Them being angry the summer visit is reduced to 2 nights isn't normal behaviour. You are either hiding behind them and using that as another excuse, or they are already suffering from being conditioned by you and your parents.

You say you don't want them to think you are a bad parent. This will sound harsh, but you are being a bad parent because of allowing this to happen.

I think you feel you have made significant inroads by having your chat with your dad but it's not even scratching the surface.

bluelemming · 23/04/2021 07:13

I would love to hear your parents' side of the story. I'm going against the grain here but it reads to me that it's not so much your parents who are the problem but your husband.

Maybe your parents are genuinely concerned that your DC are disciplined too much. You sound scared of your DH. So it is more comfortable for you to blame your parents. But I think you could be blaming the wrong people here for the situation.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 23/04/2021 07:30

@bluelemming

I would love to hear your parents' side of the story. I'm going against the grain here but it reads to me that it's not so much your parents who are the problem but your husband.

Maybe your parents are genuinely concerned that your DC are disciplined too much. You sound scared of your DH. So it is more comfortable for you to blame your parents. But I think you could be blaming the wrong people here for the situation.

Disciplined too much? I don't get that impression at all. Her parents cry and have the vapours if the children cry about losing a board game. They think an 8 year old riding a bike is too dangerous and stressful and physically exhausting. I don't think she sounds afraid of her husband at all. She does sound very conditioned by and afraid of her parents though.
Comtesse · 23/04/2021 07:38

OP says she feels “total blind panic” in respect to her parents - doesn’t sound like a DH problem to me @bluelemming

Mind you, I too would love to hear the parents perspective about why kids crying at losing a board game is worth a full on sulk from the grandparents. Yup I would just love to hear that twisted rationale.