Rich Man Mean?

[247]

Had a crappy long and drawn out debate with DH in which it is very obvious we have quite different values. Since he is the breadwinner then I guess I have to accept it, but boy I am not happy. DH had nothing when i met and married him but we were happy and in love, isnt that the most important thing. Anyway, the years have gone by, 20 to be exact and he is now rich. We have a 2£m home, DCs in private ed, expensive cars etc, successful business etc, but we do not live an expensive lifestyle, ie lots of holidays, designer gear, trips out etc. I just happened to mention that DD would like (has not asked and never does) 3 expensive items including a handbag. Now she is only 13 and he has a problem with the fact a) she does not need a handbag b) she should not be wearing any designer clothes and c) if he lets have have these things she will be spoilt! I just don't get it, she is not a brat, never asks for anythingand more often than not wears quite cheap clothes. Whats his problem. I told him if I had money I would like my family to have the finest of everything. Now I know that is not the main focus in life but surely it would be a different matter and I was asking for stuff that we cannot afford. Am i so very wrong. Opions please, but please don't slate me. I grew up with not much at all and we have made a lot of sacrifices to be where we are now, 20yrs down the line should we not be enjoying the fruits of our labour?

247 of course it's nonsense to say you're teaching your child to believe women are inferior by working in the home instead of outside it, but you are teaching your children that women are inferior by not insisting that your work is recognised, acknowledged and valued and allowing it to be treated as ... er... inferior. It's well known that the best indicator of whether a child will have a happy relationship when they are adults, is if they're parents did. If their parents didn't, it doesn't mean they won't, it just means it's less likely. Does that not concern you? People keep asking if you and your DH would consider Relate, would you? It might help you sort out the differences in your values and might make your marriage happier.

Have already said, we tried that a few yrs back, he was advised that he didn't have to agree with me but to at least listen and understand that the things I find important my not be what he finds inportant. I don't think we ever got around that one

Could you try again?

It sounds like you're desperately unhappy. And as if he is as well. But if you both love each other and want to stay together and want to model a happy relationship for your children, you're not doing anything atm to achieve that as far as I can see. At least counselling might help that. Don't forget, you might get a better counsellor next time, the problems might be slightly different, your kids are older... all factors which make the process different. Just because it didn't work then, doesn't mean it won't help this time. It's an ongoing process.

247 do you wonder whats going to happen when your children have left home?

Hi 247

My family lost everything when I was a teeanger .we were neveer loaded but we were evicted and lost a fairly middle class existence for a 'sleeping on other peoples floors'one.
I am in my 40's and the fear that that created in me is only just subsiding now. I used to have loads of savings accounts with a few quid here and there as some bizarre security. maybe it affected him the same way - the fear of it never being enough to make you safe?

I have read most of this thread and FWIW I would suggest that you find yourself a good counsellor. As they say - you can't change him. But you need to feel comfortable about who you are and get some perspective on your relationship and your life ahead of you.
There are some crap ones of course but there are also some very good ones and being able to offload and get some perspective on how to help yourself within your current situation would surely be useful.
I had some counselling after a couple of traumatic events in my life - one of which also affected my husband and, whilst he didn't choose to come, it actually helped both of us because I was able to see more clearly how my behaviour was impacting him and i was also able to respond more positively to the things that he was doing.

Mostly I went because I realsied that our kids learn from the lives we lead in front of them and i was teaching my kids that you grow up, you aquire stuff and then bad things happen and you live a sadish existence. I wanted to change that and the help I had has absoloutely done that for me.

Might that be something you could consider?

I think, as pagwatch says, looking into some counselling for yourself is a very good idea, 247. For whatever reasons, your DH is not prepared to make changes to situations that make you unhappy, or even to listen to your reasons why you are unhappy. He is not going to change his behaviour (men like this will never change their behaviour when the situation is working OK for them, they have a knack of tuning out women;s complaints because they really don;t think women are people). So you have to work out how you can either learn to live with it, or change your own to make yourself feel happier, and agood counsellor will be able to help with this.

Counselling also might help you realise that you deserve better than this 247, and that your children deserve better than seeing you in a loveless marriage.

it's not as if you're not making an effort is it? you try to please him, talking to him, cooking him nice meals and he doesn't respond.

i agree with madamez that you have to start looking after yourself now. go to a therapist on your own, try to start changing things so that you're happier, perhaps not as dependant on him for your happiness?

this sounds so trite, but hobbies can bring a huge amount of fulfillment. do you have any you can get more involved in? perhaps something that's social too, like playing music with some friends?

Presumably by attention he means sex though not meals. How is the sex life or is that on an earlier bit of the thread?

Gosh, that's a bit of a personal question to be asking a stranger on the internet, Xenia.

Blimey - cut to the chase

LOL

But Xenia speaks the truth. Men do usually use attention as a code word for sex. They generally don't mean that their wives won't sit down and talk to them about the implications of the second international, when they complain about not being given enough attention.

Actaully I also think Xenia's question is reasonable (the OP doesn;t have to answer it online, but it's something else for her to think about). Men who consider their wives possessions that they have bought and paid for often feel entitled to sex whenever they want it, and complain about not getting enough.

I think people underestimate how important sex is in a marriage (not that I can really write about as I'm divorced I suppose).

Men never mean attention in the sense of talk about the relationship or have meal cooked. They're really meaning underwear and oral or any other kind of sex etc.

You're not entirely right there, Xenia. There are plenty of men who have little or no sex drive and whose wives are carpet-bitingly frustrated. THough probably the biggest factor in couple-happiness is having similar sex drives, as one of the biggest indicators of disaster is a high-libido person paired up with a low-libido one.

Lets just say that when I had PND for a few years he was neglected. The tables are turned now and he keeps well away! Although he is on some medication that has caused him to be active in that dept IYSWIM. However, he doesn't even bother to put his arm around me and never comes to bed at the same time either. Maybe I really am slogging a dead horse.

unable to be active I meant

Xenia
really not trying to be arguementative but whilst what you say may be generally true it is not always true ( and you do say "men never mean")
My husband actually values affection and companionship as just as important ( of course would never turn down that kind of attention either ).
It was difficult when I had PND and wasn't interested in sex for a while but the only real challenging time in our marriage was when i was struggling with grief and could not be affectionate and close in everyday life. that was the only time in 18 years that our marraige has been even close to under pressure.
I think to say men only value sex as attntion is a little cliche and may cause a misdiagnosis of what his needs really are - which isn't good for either of them.
Although of course being married 18 years by no means makes me an expert any more than a divorce makes you a novice

Yes but the better sex can lead to a closer emotional connection and more of a readiness to talk about things intimately, perhaps.

I agree I put it in a slightly sexist way too.

If he "keeps well away" that as far as I can see could be a big bit of the current problem. So that can be solved by going to bed when he does or suggesting doing XYZ or whatever. Puzzling over the medication. Can only think of viagra or testosterone. Most other medication usually dampens libido.

He is taking lots of pain killers for various things and says that he cant 'do it'. He goes to bed really really late and falls asleep on the sofa, said its the only way he can sleep?????????

One more weighing in for individual counselling for you. You can't make him go to couples counselling, but you can set up an appointment for yourself and start looking around to see if you can find a good counsellor. I think taking some control of your situation in that way would improve things even in itself.

It seems like one of the contributory problems to the situation you guys are now in is your PND. Did you have any counselling or talk therapy for that at the time? When people are depressed they can really withdraw into themselves and behave in very self-centered ways. Perhaps your husband began to feel neglected and like he wasn't getting any attention from you then and withdrew from you in his turn?

You saved up all that money for your ivf babies but then once they arrived things must have been hard for both of you. If you stopped having sex with him at that time, it must have made him feel quite unloved. It must be very hard to come back to a happy, affectionate relationship from one where sex was a no-no for so long.

I totally know what you mean about spending the money you have, especially when you talk about plane fares. If I were rich, one of the first things I'd do would be never fly economy class again. But recently I was talking to my Mom about a woman we know who has a lot of money and always flies her family first class and my mother thought it was a crazy thing to do. I guess different people see value in different things.

I was on prozac for a good while, few years, but he just thinks thats an excuse along with pnd. I sought my own counselling about 2 years ago and all he could say was 'did it do you any good then'. Ive never been able to 'read' him or get close, I have always felt he is holding back, on that basis alone it makes for a very difficult time.

Counselling is only going to be any use to you if you are using it to support changing your situation, not yourself. There's nothing wrong with you 247, there's a lot wrong with the way your husband is treating you and the way he expects you to live. The question is how long can you tolerate it. The feeling I've got from this thread is that it's almost as if this situation has snuck up on you unawares, it's not what you wanted or expected but now you're in it somehow you feel stuck.

Mind you the only therapy I ever found that actually helped me to make big changes in my life was cranio-sacral therapy which is is much working with the body and feelings as it is talking.

think about you going to the councelling or you taking the prozac or you going to marriage guidence is that he can sit back and think that the dault is clearly yours as you have to do something about it - to be quite honest my dh was thekind of person that wouldnt go to MG and always refused - until i left him and made it a condition of my return.

I could business class or on the train first class but I'd never dream of using it. It's a waste of money. These are just personality issues. They don't stop couples getting on necessarily. If he has sexual and health problems then he should be seeking treatment for that so he's not in a sexless marriage and curing the illness that's causing the pain which results in him having to take the painkillers.

May be he's depressed which often leads to inability to have sex for men too. Does he masturbate?