Dating Thread 202: Here's hoping the lockdown loneliness and longing eases up soon...

[SpringlikeBunk]

Come ye all!

@frankiefirstyear

How much information are you thinking you need to share?

Provided you’re not looking for a rescuer or a problem solver or someone to beat up your crazy ex just exchange enough information to see if you want to meet for a drink or not.

Most dating situations fizzle out anyway after a short while - you’re not needing the guy to assess if it’s worth moving in with you!

I agree being honest and open is good but I don’t think you’re not owing complete strangers every little detail of your life to get them to meet you!

I’ve found guys who want too many details about past trauma/abuse are potential controllers/abusers themselves.

If you find someone is having a critical or judgemental or overly nosy vibe just unmatch them.

I think most chats fizzle out or the guys turn out to be duds so it’s really not you at all - women with great photos, no kids or ex’s, posh mainstream stable jobs all encounter the same nutters and flakes!

(Sorry for the tough love vibe but it just seems you’re taking stuff personally when it really isn’t you!)

I do find it hard to be vague about specific questions asked tbh but some things I have to let them know -
I can only see irons on evenings when my kids are asleep, for example, puts them off because it's dating they want to do and I literally have no option to go out, but don't want strangers in my home either 🤦‍♀️ this is why I tried to date someone I know already.
I thought I could talk about my work but it made it really awkward and the chat just fizzled out despite being really good for a few days now.
I absolutely don't want a rescuer etc, just someone that I can be myself with, laugh and chat and enjoy spending time with.
I'm maybe in a defeatist mindset atm 🤷‍♀️ hats off to all those who keep the hope alive after months of dating!

@frankiefirstyear I know your situation might make the logistics of dating difficult but I still wouldn’t go into it at the start. Is it possible to get a sitter occasionally? So chat normally just about surface stuff with a view to going on a date if you can and if there’s a mutual spark/interest you could discuss your situation after a first date/on a second.
If it’s not possible to get a sitter then I think online dating is going to be tricky and potentially too risky if dates have to happen in your home.

@bangheadhere40

Yes it was a date of mine that asked for £1 for my chips 🤣

I'm now kind of sad I missed this thread 🤣

@frankiefirstyear

I don’t have children or a crazy ex situation and I’d say my pictures are cute and I come across as well-educated.

Matches and chats and dates still fizzle out - it’s not anything me or you are doing or saying wrong?

The guys online are chatting to multiple women (same as us!)

So it’s quite common for them to just focus on one or two women and drop us even if we’ve done nothing wrong!

Or they might be overworked and just using the apps for little chats. Or not be who they say they are. Or have no intention of ever meeting ANYONE.

Or already have a “main woman” they’re dating. Or be a sixteen year old girl winding everyone up!

Please don’t put yourself in a situation where you think there’s something wrong with you and you don’t deserve to be treated well, or you need to drop boundaries to “get a guy”

@frankiefirstyear I can only speak for myself, but months of OLD does wear away at you and at times I've felt really down about the whole thing. It really isn't you - it's just the nature of OLD. It's so hard to even get a match let along have that progress any further.

It's also interesting to see the different views of splitting bills. I always offer to pay for the first round of drinks, and usually it then alternates between us if there are more drinks. If it's a meal, I offer to pay and suggest she buys the next one if she offers to split it. If she's still keen to split then I have no issue with that. Once I'm dating someone, then usually we take turns.

I also do this with friends - in fact I was out with a few mates last night and I just paid the whole bill, as I'd arranged the night (and was somewhat tipsy!) Next time I'm out, someone else will do the same, and over time everything evens out.

I also like to do other things that I consider gentlemanly like opening the car passenger door for her, walking on the kerb side of the road and opening doors. I know some people consider it old fashioned and sexist, but I see it as good manners and if someone's going to dislike me for trying to be polite, then they're not the right person for me.

@TheCatWithTheHat - you sound like a true gentleman- very deserving of finding your lovely lady

@frankiefirstyear - I’ve been in OLD for around 8 months , 3 phone calls and one meet in all that time. I’ve got one potential Iron at the mo but I already am disheartened. I’m sure our circumstances are very different but I have kids at home (DD never has overnights at her dads - just a couple of hours on a Sunday ) and I work full time so no-one can come to my house , and I will find it very tricky for dates. I’d actually like someone just to see once a week , I’m not even sure - which makes it tricky as if I’m asked what am I looking for I really don’t know. I’d just like the odd date, with a man - a drink/cinema. I’m going to keep plodding on though - as if I don’t do OLD I’m never going to meet anyone.

I also tend to choose guys with kids (not living with them necessarily but at least know the pressures etc ).

I’ve just whatsapped Mr Irish to say no to a meet, that I’m matching with another currently I’m keen on and don’t want two on the go, and wish him luck. I hope he takes it ok. I feel so scared about his reaction . I suppose that tells something about me - I’m a people pleaser, I don’t like confrontation and I need to get a thicker skin !!!

@GaraMedouar

I also tend to choose guys with kids (not living with them necessarily but at least know the pressures etc ).

I’ve just whatsapped Mr Irish to say no to a meet, that I’m matching with another currently I’m keen on and don’t want two on the go, and wish him luck. I hope he takes it ok. I feel so scared about his reaction . I suppose that tells something about me - I’m a people pleaser, I don’t like confrontation and I need to get a thicker skin !!!

Following @HairyArsedMan advice I have been more honest when unmatching and said I'm on date 3 with someone else and wanted to focus on them / pause the search. If they've been fun or nice etc I do also say that. I've had 3 polite replies and one angry one where he then found me on social to blast me. So 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

But if they react badly then you know that they were a wrong 'un so in a way it's worth being as honest as possible as you get an unvarnished response

Thanks for the replies to my moan.

I've taken onboard that I do need to try to be less informative. I'm a people pleaser too in many ways so do find it difficult to decline an offer without going into why. I need to work on that. Also, I'm an over sharer and when I do hold back I feel like I'm lying or acting sneaky 🤦‍♀️ , something else to work on.

I try not to have loads of chats going on at once because I get them mixed up and have to read back and it's too time consuming so tend to bash through them one or two at a time, also very slim pickings round here, very rural, area settings don't seem to work at all either 🤷‍♀️. Must say that the few I have spoken to say they haven't got other chats currently because nobody talks or just one word answers so they find my chats a 'breath of fresh air' to quote one.

I will persevere, not lower expectations, or boundaries, hold back on info and try to find a shift worker with school hours free so we can get together then and not in my home 🤪

We sound very alike frankie - I’m an oversharer too / honest and upfront - depending on how you look at it I suppose.

And yes rural here too ! Not much choice at all. My current iron is 25 min drive away and for me that’s super close so I’m happy with that

MrM was 30 mins away and described it as 'so far away' and I was thinking it takes that long to get anywhere!!

I live rurally too...it's almost impossible to meet anyone nearby. If they are an hour away I call that 'close'. So many men don't want someone ever that far away though, can't blame them really.

30 mins though...seems a bit extreme to say that!

An hour for me is fine too. My first meet was nearly an hour away. I think you just get used to travelling if you live rural.

I'm not rural but willing to travel up to an hour. My current 2 irons are 5 mins away which is so rare!

Another interesting convo about distance. I brought it up with Mr Bear last night as I assumed it might be a problem and he was totally not bothered about it & like me agreed that our main obstacles in getting further than another couple of dates was the fact that we both have our children most of the time. And they don't go to visit their other parent at the same times ...

I'm rural but near 2 good train stations so it all works out for me :)

I think the blokes that don't want to travel are maybe more looking for an arrangement that suits them rather than a person that suits them?

Think you've hit the nail on the head there @BelladiMamma - but if the person that suits you is nearby it smooths the path. I was messaged by someone from continental Europe the other day, and to be fair to her, it wasn't a speculative one - I fitted her bill almost exactly and her mine but I had to say sorry because I just don't have the means (time and money) to go on dates with her.

Having said that I've been listening to the LongDistanceRelationship podcasts of Blanche Gardin and Louis CK recently, and they seem to make it work across the Atlantic - but they're probably both a little wealthier than me and they might reasonably encounter each other on their 'commutes' (world tours).

If it's a meal, I offer to pay and suggest she buys the next one if she offers to split it.

That's the issue, right there - you force her into saying whether there will be a next date or not. I've literally has men say "I'll pay because then you'll have to see me again so you can pay", it's horrible. I want time to reflect on the date and to carefully word my rejection. I don't want to be forced to say "no, no, let me pay my share" knowing that a) I don't want to see them again and thus I MUST do this (even though it is my preference anyway, they force you into this situation) and b) they assume I am doing it because I don't want to see them again.

Because I don't want to be paid for and I don't want to be with men like that.

Mind you, I don't go out for meals on early dates, just drinks/coffee/walk etc. And I'm not that bothered about buying drinks, usually you have two so buy one set each.

Also, we've all seen men complaining at how much dating costs them and how they think some women just go on dates to get free meals - I never want to bee the cause of those complaints and I think those complaints are justified. I also earn more than the majority of men I date anyway.

My ex would pay for things but then I always felt it was somehow held against me. Not long after we started dating I was going away for the weekend, already booked, but we arranged for him to come with me. I called the hotel to add him to the room and, to my mind, he was due to pay the difference in cost (his breakfasts!) or, at most, half. But he got up early on the Sunday, snuck down to reception and paid the whole bill (and we had eaten there one night too) so I had no way to discuss it - and that felt very undermining to me. I felt like I now owed him something, especially as I had already allocated the funds as I was going anyway!

I think you misread @TheCatWithTheHat's message @VanGoghsDog. "I offer to pay' - she can say 'no, I'm paying', or 'OK', or 'let's split it'. To which he can say, in turn, 'OK' or 'I insist on paying', or 'great', or (@TheCat's point) 'you pay next time perhaps?'. I don't see any coercion or sexism there, it's rather sweet, and it's also an exchange I would have with my friends of either gender.

I had an iron who absolutely wouldn't let me pay for anything, I think it was actually some kind of weird fetish for him to spend ludicrous amounts of money when we were together. He was weird in sooo many ways though, and it amused me to go along with it - until it didn't

This isn't a hard sell or an advertisment and have no connection (please report or zap me MN if it's not allowed)

but I recently subscribed to this dating columnist

I just really like her writing and ideas - reflecting on her own life, she's really focussed on things like how our sense of trauma and shame can negatively affect our life and dating decisions, rather than just "getting the man".

She switched to going behind a paywall for 5 dollars = £3.60 a month which I'm happy to do as she's a good writer and her old blog was just great content but expect not sustainable

@ThisTooShallBeFantastic

I think you misread *@TheCat*WithTheHat's message *@VanGoghsDog. "I offer to pay' - she can say 'no, I'm paying', or 'OK', or 'let's split it'. To which he can say, in turn, 'OK' or 'I insist on paying', or 'great', or (*@TheCat*'s point) 'you pay next time perhaps?'*. I don't see any coercion or sexism there, it's rather sweet, and it's also an exchange I would have with my friends of either gender.

I had an iron who absolutely wouldn't let me pay for anything, I think it was actually some kind of weird fetish for him to spend ludicrous amounts of money when we were together. He was weird in sooo many ways though, and it amused me to go along with it - until it didn't

No, I didn't misread it at all.

My view is that "if she still wants to split, I'm fine with that" after you have suggested she can pay next time suggests the other person has to decide right then what their response will be perceived as.

I'm not saying it's coercion, don't think I did say that, just perception. And it puts people in a difficult situation. Hence the start of this conversation with pp saying it made her anxious which I think is entirely understandable.

@HairyArsedMan

Think you've hit the nail on the head there *@BelladiMamma* - but if the person that suits you is nearby it smooths the path. I was messaged by someone from continental Europe the other day, and to be fair to her, it wasn't a speculative one - I fitted her bill almost exactly and her mine but I had to say sorry because I just don't have the means (time and money) to go on dates with her.

Having said that I've been listening to the LongDistanceRelationship podcasts of Blanche Gardin and Louis CK recently, and they seem to make it work across the Atlantic - but they're probably both a little wealthier than me and they might reasonably encounter each other on their 'commutes' (world tours).

Wow that's very forward thinking of her. Have you stayed in touch?

The pandemic hasn't done LD relationships much good. This is just from here (rural SE) to zone 1 London & near the mainline station my train comes into. But everyone has a different perception of distance.

When I was footloose and fancy free in my 20's I didn't bat an eyelid at LD relationships.

Now that Mr Bear & I are organising dates 5&6 I'm thinking- ok need to get a dog sitter etc. I really need to give a shit to do that. As oftentimes my dogs have been better company than a random date. (The DC will be with their Dad).

Ah OK @VanGoghsDog, I see what you mean.

God I dread to think how many times I've made people feel anxious quite unintentionally as I'm clearly a very insensitive person - the ins and outs of this particular exchange are completely lost one me! (But not a sexist one, purely because I'm a woman?)

When I was younger I did used to feel that if a bloke was coming along somewhere with me or had organised something, they were likely to pay but were under no obligation to pay. I used to them tot up in my head how much I'd spent on the date. New clothes maybe, a waxing appointment, a taxi. And I'd think - fair do's. Now I'm neutral and I don't have a hard and fast rule. But I'm more of a Southern European in socialisation terms: Italian / French boyfriends and then married a 2nd generation Pakistani. Their cultural heritage can sit heavy at times and in the end money was definitely the determining factor in my split. Money hidden, money used to control, expensive presents instead of marriage counselling etc. So I've adjusted my settings somewhat and try to be more Northern European these days! (And there I am dating Mr Bear, a Christian Arab who speaks French and looks like Tahar Rahim ...!)