Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

He gad 9 months to realise that a new tiny helpless blob was going to need full time care. & that he was fully able to be part of it.
If he didnt know it was a a all consuming job for first time parents, he really is too stupid to want to live with anyway.

he still maintains he had no idea that our marriage was in trouble

The thing is, OP, he could be the nicest, kindest man in the world and you could have simply fallen out of love with him. (He's not, frankly).

That is a good enough reason to divorce. He's not owed any chances, any opportunity to change, or make things better.

You don't need to justify why you don't love someone anymore. It's obviously easier if there is a decent reason to leave - as in your case - but there doesn't need to be anything other than you don't want to be with him anymore.

You're not a fucking employer and you don't need to have given written warnings and gone through all the legal steps to get rid. He can't sue you for it.

It's enough to simply think Fuck this, I'm done and to end it.

All the time that he's bleating he didn't realise he was destroying his relationship is irrelevant. He doesn't need to be given time to change, or repair the damage or improve his performance. He's basically fucked it beyond repair.

Yep some excellent advice on here.

You seem to see this relationship as a job, or a puzzle to fix. It's not.
It's enough that you don't love him anymore and want to leave.
After you leave, get counselling as it's heartbreaking reading how passive you are. You keep saying 'i want space but that's not going to happen' or 'i want him to leave' but instead he's taking our daughter out for the morning??!
When are you going to start making things happen? You only get one life and you're letting someone who is awful and that you don't love trample all over it.

he said that our child is so important that even if we didn't love eachother (although he says he does love me) we should stay together for them, and behave in a pleasant way together, to keep the family together and give a stable upbringing.

Does he indeed? So now he suddenly knows that what's best for your daughter is to "behave in a pleasant way together"

But since her birth he hasn't believed that. It's been fine up until now for him to behave in a thoroughly unpleasant way.

Surely your child is 'so important' she deserves to live in a household of love and respect? You don't love him, and he doesn't respect you. That's actually quite shit for your child's stability.

And your daughter is 'so important' that surely she shouldn't be subjected to living under the shadow of her parents toxic relationship?

And surely, for the sake of her having the best chance at a balanced and stable life and future relationships of her own, she deserves not to be used as a threat to make you stay with a man you don't love?

And of course he is making you see and understand that it is all your fault!
Your fault for upsetting him by loving your child.
Your fault for not telling him how badly his appalling behaviour was affecting you.
Your fault for not giving him a chance
Etc.
Your fault if she doesn't have a stable childhood.

The problem with the affair is it has put you in the position of guilt and him in the position of the injured party. So you are now falling over yourself trying to atone.

1. By listening to his endless agonising and heartbreak etc,
2. by hearing out his proposal for a list of rules.
3. By allowing him to use your child's well-being as a negotiating tactic.

So, he's devastated. And you are cowed.

But actually op, HE THOROUGHLY DESERVED IT!

He behaved terribly to you. And therefore, he did not have his daughter's best interest at the top of his priorities when he chose to abuse her mother.

He deserves you falling out of love with him.
He deserves you choosing to find solace in an affair.
And he deserves to lose you.

You and your daughter deserve a decent life, free from fear.
And you deserve to be free to talk to whoever you want, about whatever you want, whenever you want.
You deserve not to be silenced.
You deserve to have a free choice about your own job.

I guess you'll probably keep going through the motions for a while until you can't actually bear to hear any more of his self pitying, clingy, needy, desperate, devastated entreaties for you to force yourself (for the sake of your daughter as she is "so important") to love him or to at least commit to faking it if you can't.

I hope one day you are able to just tell him straight
Look no, actually it's not best for our child for you to coerce me into staying in a relationship with you.

And no, no I don't love you.

And I don't want to have to spend the foreseeable future being subjected to your self pity and bullying to see if the magic comes back. It's not coming back.

And when you abused me, what you actually did was kill this marriage stone dead.

The affair was just a symptom.

I do hope it all doesn't take too long op. Dragging this out will do more harm than good. For you, for him and for your daughter.

I have been where you are. Mired in self doubt, desperately trying to find evidence there is a decent man somewhere. Not being able to see the wood for the trees.

What helped me?

I would suggest opening up and talking to some trusted friends and establishing a support network. It can feel very hard to do this but what happens is you get other people’s perspectives and offers of help. Keep posting on here.

Keep a journal - it’s incredible how our minds forget things but writing things down helps clarify the mind. After a while you will clearly see patterns emerging. Insist on more space.

Can you visit your family for a short break with your daughter?

Read self help books.

Start making a plan - use your workplace as a place of safety - somewhere to get things delivered to, maybe even keep an overnight bag there. Have some cash stored there. Sounds dramatic l know but it will make you feel less trapped and more prepared should you need to leave quickly.

My husband wouldn’t give me space either. However things came to a head when we had some time off together (no distraction of work) in lockdown. He kept bringing up our issues of intimacy and wouldn’t let it drop - even though l had repeatedly asked him to drop the pressure. We had a furious row and he did go to a friends house for a few days. During that time, l booked an AirBnB and moved out - l made the decision not to tell him - l just went. I don’t feel proud about this but as he wasn’t respecting my boundaries l felt l had no choice.

When l am having a wobble, l find it helps to ask some simple questions. Do l love him? Do l respect him? Has he got the capacity to be the man l want him to be. The answer is always no and l know l have made the right decision.

By the way, my husband got worse, much worse when he started counselling. He became more demanding, more aware of my faults, twisted things round, more self entitled. I think because of the reflecting listening techniques that are used, what can happen is that your perceptions and feelings can be amplified and magnified. It’s invaluable if you don’t know how you feel but for selfish entitled individuals- it can reinforce their beliefs in a damaging way.

Also have a read of this;

www.betterhelp.com/advice/abuse/youre-not-crazy-but-emotional-abuse-can-make-you-think-you-are/

How are you doing OP? (I don't want to call you @helplesshopeless)

Hi everyone. Can I just thank you all again for your caring and thoughtful responses. I really do appreciate all of your support, and again, while I don't have much time to respond individually at the moment I am reading and carefully digesting each one!

@TheThermalStair thanks for checking in again (and yes this username does sound a bit bleak and sad)

We've had a bit of a turning point over the last day- we had a family day out together and he became very upset towards the end of the day that i hadn't shown him much affection. He confronted me over it and again starting asking why I couldn't commit to this working and loving him. I used your example @MadMadMadamMim that he could be the nicest person in the world but if I've fallen out of love with him then that's it.

He initially called me heartless for saying that but later on he apologised and said he gets it's about my feelings and no amount of pushing from his side is going to change things. He is going to back off and let me take my time.

He's been really friendly and happy today, so things are easier in that sense, but it's not helping the guilt!

For me, it all comes down to whether I can love him again, and whether things are really so bad that it's worth going through the trauma of divorce and all the complications that come with that. I'm no further forward with that unfortunately

He’s being nice today because he’s taken his cue to be the nicest man in the world, it sounds like. Really hope it lasts - although it may well not make any difference to your feelings. Out of interest, what do he mean by not showing him enough affection etc?

What does he mean*

Not showing affection, almost as if you don't love him?

For me, it all comes down to whether I can love him again...

I'd say no. People talk about falling in and out of love as though it's just a random feeling that you can rekindle if you make enough effort.

It's not. It's a level of trust and respect that can't be messed with or faked just because you're under pressure to reciprocate someone else's feelings.

If you've always been kind to him, it's much easier for him to feel all that about you.

Re the affection point, one of his 'rules' (for want of a better word) was that I would try and show him love and affection, as he feels he needs that and he thinks it'll help me feel closer and more connected to him. He also put in there that he'd try to respect my need for space too, so they don't really work well together!

I’d say your marriage is over.
Your h sounds like an entitled man child. He wants to be the centre of attention well do yourself a favour, let him be, leave him.

Is he talking about sex? This still sounds like he's making it a lot about him and not about you

No, no definitely not sex, I've taken that off the table entirely now and he's respecting that

What do you mean, his rules?

@helplesshopeless

Re the affection point, one of his 'rules' (for want of a better word) was that I would try and show him love and affection, as he feels he needs that and he thinks it'll help me feel closer and more connected to him. He also put in there that he'd try to respect my need for space too, so they don't really work well together!

Oh dear. Why should you try and show things you don't feel?

What might make you feel closer and more connected to him is if he stopped being ridiculous, but that doesn't seem to be within his capacity.

When my affair first came to light and we were talking about working on things, he wrote a list of things for us both to commit to, such as no contact with OM ever again, me to leave my workplace at some point in the near future, us to show each other love and affection, him to respect my need for space, me to consider having sex (I removed that one!), not to tell my friends all the details of what's happening as we work through this, be totally open and honest about our feelings, and so on. Lots of them were/are fine, a couple of them I disagreed with (and told him) and others I kind of have to agree to but am still not sure about!

What might make you feel closer and more connected to him is if he stopped being ridiculous, but that doesn't seem to be within his capacity.

Ha, yes...he seems to have a turned over a new leaf since last night so we'll see how it goes. I don't think anything is going to change my feelings though

So he’s trying really hard to make things work and change himself. However this mostly consists of rules you have to follow .

You must be affectionate to him.
You must show him emotion.
You must spend time with him.
You must listen to him indoctrinating you for hours.
You must not have a weekend away.
You must have sex with him whenever he wants to ( I see that’s changed now ).
You must leave your job.
You must make a decision on his timescale.
You must not talk to your friends and family about this.

Sounds to me like he’s working really hard to control you.

Hes unreasonable specifying who you can talk to. You need support and its up to you who you tell about things that are your business.
It also keeps you isolated and more likely to buy into his view.

How did the list come about? Whose idea was it?
Did you both agree to the idea, and you both came up with the list?
I can see in couples counselling, having worked through issues and agreed to move forward, you might both write a list of wishes/needs and discuss them, and potentially maybe agree on some commitments to each other.
But this sounds worryingly like a unilateral list of his "rules" you must obey or forever be chastised for "breaking", and you haven't even decided you want to remain in the relationship yet?
If it's as it sounds, I agree with PP that it's just another form of control.

So he’s trying really hard to make things work and change himself. However this mostly consists of rules you have to follow

They were ruled that applied to both of us, so it's not as bad as it sounds! To be honest I think it was just him desperately trying to focus himself on finding a way forward through this mess. But yes, some of the rules were too much and I wasn't hugely comfortable with.

Hes unreasonable specifying who you can talk to. You need support and its up to you who you tell about things that are your business. It also keeps you isolated and more likely to buy into his view.

Yes I agree, I did tell him I'll continue to talk to my two closest friends who know about this. He said he's worried they'll poison me against him and reassure me that I'm not in the wrong for my affair (think he was disappointed that they didn't judge me when I told them!)

How did the list come about? Whose idea was it? Did you both agree to the idea, and you both came up with the list

He wrote them early one morning and then came and woke me up to read them to me then I read over properly later and added my comments/removed a few I disagreed with such as the sex one (which he wasn't thrilled about). I know I keep saying this but I don't think he was consciously trying to be controlling, he was just trying to set out a path for how we could work on things.

I have only read your comments for the second half of the thread. I am sure others have said it, but he is controlling and manipulative and so totally in your head. Everything you write is all about him and his feelings and what he wants, so he has certainly succeeded in getting into your head.

He wrote a set of rules about how things were going to work, which include who you do and don’t speak to. How is that not controlling? You say he did not mean to be controlling, but what would have happened if you had said no, and not engaged with his suggestion? He has got you to a place where his list of rules seemed reasonable enough for you not to say, no way, but to just amend. There are so many red flags in what you write that I don’t have time to respond adequately. Worst of all, he has you thinking this is all reasonable and justified and the failing is in you for not being able to grin and bear it and stay together for your DD. And to force your hand a bit, he has pulled a strop where he has threatened to go for 50:50 even though you are the primary carer and he is blaming your attention to DD for his behaviour. Actually, that is not worst of all, worst of all, it is working for him.

It is really, really difficult to leave a controlling relationship, but I think you know in your heart of hearts you want to. You want to because there is enough of your own self and sense of self to want to grow and develop independently from this suffocating marriage. If you want to get yourself back and fulfil your own potential, you are going to have to, at some point, work out a plan for going.