Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

In such a similar position to the OP... finding this thread very helpful.

coffee please read the Lundy Bancroft book. Its so helpful

@helplesshopeless
Oh, dear, it is very hard, I must say. We are still under the same roof. I sleep on the floor in the same bedroom and we have not told kids yet. We started talking about separation agreement, but because communication is not our strong suit and we are barely talking these days it is going very slowly. First he said he did not want to share his savings and investments with me. Then he told me how much he has but it is much less then I though he did. Of course, he would have to show me the statements eventually. Then he said he did not want lawyers or mediation, because he does not want to spend any money. Now he agreed to mediation, but my therapist says he may have moved some of his money and that is why he suddenly is on board. Idk we will see. I know he is not going to make it easy for me, but all I want at this point is to tell my kids and for him to leave so that I can breathe again.

I am sorry you are going through all this OP, and I wish I can help you. Like I said before, I can tell that you are an amazing human being and you deserve the best, and I am sorry that you feel bad about all this, as I know you do, when it really is not your fault at all.

@loveyourself2020

My heart goes out to you.

I don’t know how old your children are - do they still live at home? I have to admit telling my two adult sons was one of the hardest things l have ever done. And we had to do it over a 4 way family Zoom session because of lockdown.

They are shocked but ok. Still adjusting. They both think my XH has really messed up but feel very sorry for him. I struggle with that a bit. I found even though you dread telling people- it’s a relief in the end as you get extra support.

Sounds awful sleeping on the bedroom floor- why you? Your husband is not above the law and assets built up during your marriage are marital assets. He will have to reveal his finances. Don’t do anything without a good solicitor.

@helplesshopeless - you are going through a process. It will take time for you to make sense of what is going on. I too found it almost impossible to imagine a life away from him to begin with, but as the months rolled by and l got increasingly unhappier, my mind started to accept the idea more and more. My counsellor helped a lot.

However if l am honest l don’t know if l could have left when my boys were small. It’s so much harder. Like you l was very invested in being a family and wanting my boys to have a Mum and Dad together. Also nothing happened then that was a real catalyst. Life seemed dominated by the needs of young children and a demanding job and the years rolled by. I do think my XH has got worse as our children grew up and it was just the two of us more and more.

Hope you are ok.

@Whatdirection
My kids are grown up and still live with me. They are 22, 19 and 16. I am hoping they will not freak out. I mean they know that my STBX is difficult to deal with, but I know that for every kid divorce is still difficult to accept.

@loveyourself2020 oh bless you, I wish I could box up a hug and post it to you!  Its so sad to think of you sleeping on the floor (and so selfish of your husband). Do you manage to sleep ok? Re finances, a forensic accountant could help you find anything he's hidden, so I'm sure that'll come out (although of course you shouldn't need to go to those lengths and it sounds incredibly stressful).

@Whatdirection do you wish you'd got out sooner, despite it bringing potential difficulties with sharing custody of young children? Or are you happy it didn't come out until they were older?

@Alcemeg totally understand the need to delete some posts - I am constantly paranoid that my husband will see this too (or his family)! He made reference to a 'secret box' recently over some unrelated joke from something we were watching and I felt like my heart had stopped for a moment.

Thank you to everyone else for your recent comments  I was planning on speaking to my sister this weekend as she was meant to be visiting, but she's postponed it to mid-June now so I'll have to wait 

Who do you need to justify leaving to? To paraphrase PP: Yourself? Him? God?

I think it's him. Because I know he will behave terribly to me if we split, and the only thing that will temper that will be if he sees my reasoning. At the moment, he still thinks I'm not taking responsibility for my affair and I'm not putting enough effort in to fix things. Luckily as I'm not well, any comments re affection seem to have quietened down so there's no pressure there for now.

How do you get on with your parents, OP? Sorry, it's a long thread, I think I remember they live fairly far away but are they supportive?

My parents are wonderful - absolutely no concerns of judgment or pressure from them in terms of divorce shame or anything like that. We don't tend to talk about personal things like this but I know if I did they'd be supportive. But, I don't want to worry them as they have a lot going on.

Has he even explained this hate ? because let's face it, it's not the behaviour of someone who loves their partner.

Not really...I don't think he remembers the full extent of it to be honest. But he's said he thinks he'd forgotten to view me as his wife and just took me for granted as someone who was just there. I think it became habit for him to just use me as his 'frustration venter' or verbal punchbag as my therapist said! And had forgotten to treat me with general common courtesy.

@Coffeeandbananas really sorry to hear you're in such a similar situation! How are things with you? And @Peach1886, how's things with your husband at the moment?

My husband had his individual session with our couples therapist last night. He's irritating me a bit at the moment as he's cottoned on to the term 'compartmentalising' and is saying that his behaviour towards me was because I compartmentalise and don't deal with issues, and instead I shut down, so he's pointing towards that as his reason for getting angry with me during arguments. Doesn't explain why he erupted at me for watching something about Black Lives Matter (which he disagrees with ), or snapped at me for my face looking annoying because I felt unwell, as examples, but it's now his line of argument for why his behaviour is my fault. It's annoying me but also making me wonder if that is how he feels when I point towards his behaviour when trying to explain my affair. He is right that I'm still incapable of showing remorse for the hurt I've caused (partly due to the aforementioned shutting down!) - I really struggle to listen to him talk about it now, even though he's talking in a reasonable way, because the first few weeks after he found out were so so stressful (very extreme and loud verbal abuse from him on a regular basis).

Another thing he was saying was that I need to accept and understand the impact of my affair on him. He has absolutely zero trust in me now and says the level of betrayal (and shock that I could do that) is akin to his parents betraying him somehow, in that he never ever thought I would hurt him like that.

He said as a result of this, I need to accept that there's certain things I need to be sensitive to if we're going to reconcile. As an example of this, he does not want me meeting female friends for a night out. A meal out is fine, but I cannot go for drinks after, because for all he knows the OM could meet us in a bar. He said if I did go out for a night out/drinks, he absolutely would not be able to cope with the anxiety of it and if I did it, I'm showing him that I don't care about him and how it's impacting him.

I really don't know how unreasonable this is. I've already missed several work social meet ups recently in case OM was there (and my husband said at the start that I cannot go to these). I'm not going to the office in case OM is there (which he's also banned). Is it too far for him to expect me to not meet female friends (who may or may not be work colleagues) for drinks? Or should I be sensitive to the fact that that would be very stressful for him at the moment?

If the trust is gone then why are you staying
There is no relationship, just control and abuse. Which was probably there in some shape or form before and is probably the reason you had an affair in the first place.

He said as a result of this, I need to accept that there's certain things I need to be sensitive to if we're going to reconcile. As an example of this, he does not want me meeting female friends for a night out.
Oh god. This is textbook abuser behaviour. He's using the opportunity to isolate you from your friends and make you more dependent on him so it's harder to leave. It's not reasonable.

I think if you want to leave, you could play him at his own game. Turn the tables, tell him it's obvious that he can't move on from the affair so it's only fair to let him find someone who loves him how he deserves to loved, and you aregoing to move out.

He made reference to a 'secret box' recently over some unrelated joke from something we were watching and I felt like my heart had stopped for a moment.
Watch out for this. My exH had somehow hacked my phone and I cottoned on because he started quoting bits of messages people had sent me. He did it because he didn't believe I was not in contact with DP and then it just gave him the actual rage that I was being truthful. He lost his shit with me one day about "how I paint myself as being so perfect".... anyway. Thats not really relevant but your DH might have done something similar, it's more common than you think.

You know what helpless I'd be done here. I've been in your husbands position, it was very early days in our relationship and a complicated emotional mess on his side but....I did not regularly beat my partner over the head with what had happened, I didn't control his movements, it was difficult but I had to at least try and trust him otherwise what was the point in fighting for the relationship. We are still together 16 years on from that point and we have a very good relationship. Your DH is now quite frankly taking the piss, he is making everything your fault. You said somewhere up thread you couldn't imagine having another child with him, to me that speaks volumes. Stop torturing yourself, is it really worth the abuse every time you do something/anything that displeases him. Because that appears to be what is going on here now. My partner understood he had screwed up badly but equally I knew we had to take it step by step, he moved out for a while, we effectively dated again and worked forwards, I did my utmost not to brow beat him. I respected that stuff had gone wrong and we both had to commit to a change, your DH just appears to be committed to finding a new stick to beat you with. Life is too short. Stopping you from seeing your friends just no, yes it will be emotionally difficult for him if you go out, it's very wobbly feeling,it's not nice, but to prevent you from seeing people is not reasonable behaviour and that unreasonable behaviour is one of the reasons this all happened in the first place. Maybe sit and write a very honest list of pros and cons for this relationship because honestly it is painful watching yourself tie yourself in knots justifying his continued abuse because you hurt him. You said in your OP that you want to get back to your happy place with him, I'm not convinced this ever really existed because the relationship you describe pre affair is not something I would regard as happy. Ultimately he has to decide to move forward but I fear he will always use what happened as a weapon and you will remain trapped and miserable.

Apologies for lack of paragraphs that was rather a stream of consciousness!

A friend of mine had an affair in similar circumstances and her husband got the details by putting a keystroke logger on the computer.

He said if I did go out for a night out/drinks, he absolutely would not be able to cope with the anxiety of it and if I did it, I'm showing him that I don't care about him and how it's impacting him.
Tell him he needs to discuss this with his therapist as it's not healthy to control your spouse's movements. Suggest that if he can't get over it through therapy, then your ("our") only other option is to split up, as having your movements controlled is certainly not an option.

I've already missed several work social meet ups recently in case OM was there (and my husband said at the start that I cannot go to these). I'm not going to the office in case OM is there (which he's also banned). Is it too far for him to expect me to not meet female friends (who may or may not be work colleagues) for drinks?
All of these things are well, well beyond reasonable.

My exh cheated on me. I believe that anyone can potentially cheat. I feel anxious at the idea of my bf theoretically cheating. Does that mean that I can reasonably control my current bf's behaviour?

Morning @hopelesshelpless

It’s so hard to read your latest updates especially the bit about your face being annoying because you were unwell.

Just that one little snippet reveals how little love he has for you. Where’s the care, the compassion? It is 100% abusive, mean, horrible, demeaning, humiliating behaviour from him.

To answer your question about do l wish things had ended earlier- that is a very difficult question to answer. Yes and no.

I have to say he was not so overtly horrible as your partner. He never called me names, or criticised me in a way that was obvious. He was often very complimentary towards me and l always felt he was a loving and devoted husband and family man.

This scored a lot of points with me. My own parents had an awful marriage with full on physical and verbal abuse from my father. I actually thought my marriage was pretty decent compared to the standards that had been set in my childhood.

So l suppressed and ignored my doubts about his immaturity and selfishness, his neediness and demands, his ‘frank spencer’ moments and the fact he irritated the life out of me.

I actually thought because of my childhood, l was damaged and would find any relationship difficult and the issues were just as much my fault as his. I was the one with the temper often provoked by his immaturity.

So while l was stuck in this mode, l don’t think l would have ever given myself permission to leave and if he hadn’t confessed to his historic hookups l would still be with him and probably would have stayed right up to the end.

But his confession shook me up and made me question everything. In the months that followed, it was still all about him. I had a shocking email from him last Sunday that was full of blame for me - l had reacted disproportionately........it was just ‘two tiny bad moments’ in a lifetime of service to me. His minimising was awful.

I have given up ever getting any ‘justice’ from him and given up trying to explain myself. Your partner will never be satisfied with anything you say and will only want to listen long enough to twist your words back at you and to try and enforce his narrative.

I am glad you are noticing his behaviour though more and more and questioning it. I bet in the past some of the things you write about now, would have just got buried and brushed over.

By noticing, you are paying attention. You will be processing this and this is all part of your journey into working out what you want.

I am 100% glad l am out now.

It is coercive control and he is using the fact you sought (much needed) emotional support outside the marriage to justify it, but he was abusive before that too.

He will be awful after the split, yes, but you know what, after the split, you will have a lawyer to deal with him, your therapist to help you untangle the mess in your head (sorry), and your real life support network of family and friends; you won’t be stuck in a house being controlled more and more and made to believe that you somehow deserve it. The point is there is an other side of the legal process which you get to. There is not an other side of an abusive marriage.

It took me a long time to realise that no amount of explanation would make my ex understand. All you are doing is giving him ammunition to turn around back on you.

That said, this was his individual meeting last night with your couples’ therapist. Hopefully the therapist will call him out on this controlling behaviour. But even if she does, you are essentially relying on an outside party to tell him how to behave towards you.

Regarding your parents, it was my daughter in this predicament, I would want her to be able to tell me, no matter how busy or worried she thought I was.

Yes please tell your parents.

They will so want to be there for you and will give you so much needed support and strength.

Anything they are going through will pale into insignificance if they know their daughter is in profound distress.

Please do it xx

@Whatdirection A lot of that sounds eerily familiar to me, e.g. you thinking it was partly your fault for being damaged by your upbringing.

(Wasn't Frank Spencer unfortunate and gormless, but actually loving to his wife? May be taking that reference too seriously, but perhaps the comparison to Frank was actually also a form of minimisation?!)

It's interesting that in a woman's case this is abuse but when a man has betrayed they are usually expected on MN to do the following -

If you’re the one who has had the affair, your job now is to help your partner to feel safe again. To do this, make sure there is 100% accountability for as long as it takes for your partner to know that there is nothing else more to find out. The privacy that was there before the affair is gone, and it will be gone for a while

Yes ravenmum

I know l minimise things by telling myself he was like Frank Spencer.

Decades of ‘l didn’t mean it’....’It was not done on purpose’ have brainwashed me.

I am having to develop new neural pathways.

MrsMaizel unfortunately there is more to the situation here than one party had an affair.

Oh God, @helplesshopeless. Your last posts are so deeply sinister that I really despair.

Starting off with the easier bits
He made reference to a 'secret box' recently over some unrelated joke from something we were watching and I felt like my heart had stopped for a moment.
I had similar with my ex-DH. It may not be that he's found a way into your computer. It could just be that insecure men like this actually know and understand, intuitively, a LOT more than they let on. We may have to talk until we're blue in the face trying to explain the most basic building-blocks of reality, but they're not actually as stupid as they make out. They know perfectly well what we're saying makes sense. They just don't want US to know that. Because the minute we start believing our own words, our own feelings, we might just act on them.

I think it became habit for him to just use me as his 'frustration venter' or verbal punchbag.
Oh well that's all right then isn't it! 😁
It's not a very nice habit to have got into in the first place, though, is it? Do you remember ages ago, you wrote something about not wanting to be with someone who had it in them to treat the person they "loved" in such a cruel way? Well, that is perfectly reasonable. In fact, it's not reasonable to override it. You're only overriding it because he insists you do. If you could escape from his abusive control for long enough to get your breath back, you'd see this more clearly. Is there any way you can go and stay with your parents, or your sister? Just for some quiet space, away from him, where he can relax knowing you are not shagging other men right, left and centre the minute you're out of his sight?

snapped at me for my face looking annoying because I felt unwell
See, now I fucking hate this bastard. Sorry. But that's just the sort of treatment I used to get from ex-DH. And it's so easy to forget, this drip-drip-drip that erodes all your self-esteem. How DARE he treat you like this! (If it's anything like my ex-DH, it's because you being ill reduces the level of attention he's used to, and he's impatient for normal services to resume. Ring any bells?)

How do you feel when I tell you that my ex-DH used to treat me that way? Do you wish I'd stayed with him?

I need to accept that there's certain things I need to be sensitive to if we're going to reconcile. As an example of this, he does not want me meeting female friends for a night out.
You know perfectly well, in your gut, that this is him telling you to get back in your box so that he can seal around it with several layers of tape and chains and extra padlocks just to be sure. This is just the start of a whole future in which you are constantly forced to demonstrate just how much you "care about him and his anxiety."

Please OP, if you haven't done it yet, start making notes. Just write down two or three things a day that you think might be true. The sort of things you know he would dismiss with contempt. Hide the notebook. Read it back now and then.

Somehow, you have to start building trust in your own interpretation of things. You are an intelligent, kind person who is being deeply manipulated, and this darkness is only going to get darker. I'm sorry.

@MrsMaizel

It's interesting that in a woman's case this is abuse but when a man has betrayed they are usually expected on MN to do the following -

If you’re the one who has had the affair, your job now is to help your partner to feel safe again. To do this, make sure there is 100% accountability for as long as it takes for your partner to know that there is nothing else more to find out. The privacy that was there before the affair is gone, and it will be gone for a while

Being open and accountable, yes - but having your movements controlled? Is that advised on MN?

@MrsMaizel I think you might do well to RTFT 😉

Either that, or you're about to start promoting the "Making Marriage Work" advice of John Gottman!!!

Ahhh a bit more
I know he will behave terribly to me if we split, and the only thing that will temper that will be if he sees my reasoning.
I'm afraid you have to face the fact that he will NEVER "see your reasoning." Or at least he will, and in fact probably already has; but he will never give you the satisfaction of knowing that he understands it.

He will behave terribly to you if you split, because that's how he behaves to you. Even now, when he is supposedly trying his absolute hardest to prove what a great catch he is.

He is right that I'm still incapable of showing remorse for the hurt I've caused ... I really struggle to listen to him talk about it now, even though he's talking in a reasonable way, because the first few weeks after he found out were so so stressful (very extreme and loud verbal abuse from him on a regular basis).
Sounds like you are tentatively permitting a tiny secret part of your brain to be disloyal to him, and actually see him for the creep he is. This is the kind of thing you could note as a possible truth: "I am sick of hearing his version of events."

Sorry I forgot to say!

"talking in a reasonable way" is not a luxury, you know. It's not a rare treat, to be saved for special occasions when we're trying to impress someone.

I can understand how you've begun to think of it that way, though