Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

Did your ex husband resent you ending up with the person that you had an affair with?
Err yes! As far as ex is concerned, DP stole his wife and I was manipulated into leaving! Deep down I think it suits ex tho, cos he can tell himself and everyone else that I ran off with another man and it was nothing at all to do with him. Despite that not at all being the scenario.

I am not proud that DP was a catalyst for me leaving, but equally I was becoming emotionally numb and even suicidal from continuously putting everything into making a marriage work where my husband emotionally abused me. I don't know what would have happened to me if I stayed.
Wile it was all happening I felt like a crab that had its shell smashed off, very raw and I didn't know how to dealwith my emotions because I'd been repressing them for so long. I'm much better now at expressing what I need and want. But it's work in progress

it's like he's had a huge revelation and is making an enormous upheaval in his whole life values really made me quite excited for you 😍 despite how unlikely it sounds (life values are not so easily adjusted, even when we want them to change).

And then I got to this bit:
My husband was very rational in how he explained things in the way that I find difficult to challenge, but I did also explain my side and the therapist definitely understood it and challenged a few things he said.

The rational explanation of a whole attitude that is not on "your side," in a way that triggers an instinctive helplessness in you, is not a great sign.

It doesn't sound as though he has experienced a massive upheaval in his whole life values.

Also, it's very telling that this from @QuentinBunbury made you cry: "We continue to be equals. What I want and need is important to him and he does his best to make that happen. He thinks about me all the time, cheerleads for me and supports me."

Guess what, that's what a normal relationship looks and feels like! That's what I've got now, too!

My parents didn't set a good example, my dad being of that generation that automatically thinks women are subhuman. For example, on a long drive, if she asked him to stop somewhere so that she could use a toilet, he'd refuse, as it was just a silly-woman request. This all seemed quite normal.

Imagine my surprise to have finally landed on my feet with someone who stops what he's doing to help me, even without me asking, even with trivial things! He helps me when I didn't even realise I needed help, like if he catches me putting the duvet cover on he will do it for me because he's bigger and it's easier with a king-size piece of fabric 🤣

What makes me anxious for your situation is that you know your place in the pecking order, and so things that reinforce that go unnoticed.

Also, because you are used to defending yourself against the calm / rational / logical tactics, you feel you don't have a leg to stand on LOGICALLY for leaving just when things are about to get miraculously better. You cannot respond now to the actions of the past, because the actions of the present don't match. That would just be silly! Silly, irrational woman.

my husband will want me to confirm in the next few months (at the latest) how I think this is going to go as he can't live in limbo forever

What does this mean? What is he expecting you to confirm? In what limbo does he believe he is currently living?

You've stopped contact with the other man, and you're at marriage counselling. So you are both working on it. He's created an unspoken deadline for you to confirm.... what? When he can go back to normal and stop with the efforts because you've confirmed you're staying in the marriage and will have sex with him again?

I was with my (now ex) Dh for 10 years before having DS. I would have said that we were very happy, he always spoke nicely to me and did loads of little things for me. We hardly ever argued or fell out. But he did have a temper, could get very ranty and sweaty, would get terrible road rage, would make nasty/negative comments about random people etc. Some days he just seemed so angry at the world! After having DS I started noticing and commenting because while i could disassociate that side of him from the way he was to me/friends etc, thinking of the example he was setting and what my child was learning from him suddenly showed his behaviour up in a new light-i realised that there were some aspects of his character that I couldn’t cope with. I would never have thought we would split up but 10 years later the combination of me withdrawing/criticising and him being angry at me/feeling resentful/judged culminated in him having an affair and us splitting up (very acrimoniously). Many talks and arguments brought up a lot of resentment on both sides, and although i wanted to try in retrospect i think it was more that i was frightened of ending my marriage, rather than wanting to stay with him. When i started fantasising about how much easier it would be if he could just (peacefully!) die and i could be a widow , i realised that there was no way back, or to regain any trust or love. It was an awful time, and things are still not easy but after 5 years i can honestly say i love being on my own and life is definitely more peaceful and i now feel a lot more autonomous and in control.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

cava I thought exactly the same. He's still pressuring her

cava , I was coming on to say similar.
He's only trying until you decide you will stay in this marriage.

Actually, me too!

my husband will want me to confirm in the next few months (at the latest) how I think this is going to go as he can't live in limbo forever

I think "at the latest" is particularly revealing 🤣
I can just imagine it:
Come on, hurry up, woman, with your silly faffing! 😉

Actually this reminds me that one of the reasons I split with ex is we went away on a holiday while we were trying to work things out and he was lovely, and we had a lovely time. He asked what I was thinking and I said I couldn't see me leaving....it was like a switch, he started being off with me for the rest of the week which caused me anxiety, I was tiptoeing round him and he had a huge go at me about OM and how badly I was treating him (exH).
It really felt like when he started feeling secure again he dropped the act
So just be careful

Let's imagine a scenario in which he is so wonderful in the next few months that you fall in love with him all over again. As he rescues yet another puppy from a well, you dreamily look into his eyes and say you will love him forever.

Does that mean he'll be out of limbo, fully secure in your love and never mention all this again? (This question may have a sceptical ring to it.)

If so, why exactly? I mean, any couple might break up at any time. People fall out of love, and in love with other people, without one of them even having massive anger issues. There's never a guarantee that you are totally "safe" in your relationship.

You said
''My therapist said I'm still in a state of deep trauma over everything due to how I've been treated in the past and after the affair fall out, and only with time will I start to 'un-freeze' and work out whether I have any love left.''

Your therapist is right. Think about how long (of trying to avoid being the object of his anger) it took to get you to the affair.

You can be fixed - but it might take just as long. He can't 'love bomb' you back.

If your heart is frozen - then it could shatter and splinter. It needs slow and steady warming :)

Dear OP, I have a feeling that you feel pressured by all of us here to leave your DH but you are not at all ready to do it. I totally understand. No matter how obvious it may seem to us that you should, you have to arrive to that conclusion all by yourself. We may help a little by pointing things out to you, but you have to deal with it emotionally and rationally and come to the conclusion on your own. Take your time.

Just last year at this time I was agonizing about my relationship. Deep inside I just wanted it to be over, but I was nowhere near able to admit it even to myself let alone my husband. One year later, perhaps ten therapy sessions later, it is clear as day that I do not want to stay in this marriage any more. I am not saying it is easy, I am dying inside still, guilt and shame is killing me, my DH who is still living under the same roof and not talking to me at all, is killing me, the fact that we did not tell our kids yet. The idea of drafting separation agreement, not knowing where to start. OMG I just wish I would wake up and it will all be over and done with. But the things is, every time I think to myself, perhaps I should forget about it and make up with him… there is nothing inside that supports that, no feeling, none what so ever. It is all gone. There is no going back for me. I have arrived to my destination. I am certain that this is it no matter how painful it is still.

Good luck love. And I totally agree. It took me 4 months of very intense therapy to come to terms with the fact my marriage was over and had been for a long time. Its easy to make it sound like "oh just LTB, I did and its much better" but the reality is its a long painful process often starting from a place of denial

It sounds like your DH treated you so badly for so long that your love for him just sputtered out. It happens when that kind of treatment goes on long enough. And then you emotionally moved on, which is natural. I think you two need to separate & if you want to pursue a relationship with the guy from work, you should. You deserve to be happy & your little one deserves to see his mum treated with love and respect.

Yes, OP, I would hate for what I've posted to be like a horrible bee in your bonnet when you have plenty going on already.

Perhaps "love will come back" ... it's just that when it has gone, for good reason, you can't always will it back into reality, even if things change on a permanent basis. Even if that seems illogical. Feelings are not logical. They don't have to be. Actually, they are very logical; it's just that often, they can only be properly understood with hindsight and after a lot of water under the bridge/new experiences.

When I found myself agreeing to stay, and try, for a bit longer, I would look into my heart and just felt no joy whatsoever. Just a feeling of grey numbness, the way you might feel about a weekend away someone else has organised that you feel duty bound to participate in.

By contrast, my gut reaction to the question of how I'd feel if I knew that I could leave and everything would work out OK, including for him, was one of relief and optimism.

In reality, of course, it took at least 15 years for things to be OK... and he and I probably have a completely different take on what "OK" looks like. There is a lot of sadness. But I ended up thinking that one of us might as well be truly happy. We all deserve that chance in life. Even me!

Also, my husband will want me to confirm in the next few months (at the latest) how I think this is going to go as he can't live in limbo forever.

I just noticed this and strangely enough, my DH said these almost exactly the same words to me last year. What do they mean by this? I mean, I was with my DH 26 years, most of those I spent in some kind of limbo, totally miserable (he says he had no idea), but he could not “wait” a few months. So, when last year in Jan I started therapy, I told him that I am figuring things out and needed time. He did not want to join me in couples’ therapy, but was also very impatient as to “how long is all this going to go”. I kept trying to explain that I started a process and it takes time, it may take months, perhaps a year before I know exactly what I want. He could not understand this. Finally, he told me I had to tell him because I am keeping him in this “prison” he said all this time and he cannot live like that anymore. This got me mad but I could not explain how. I mean, I was dealing with something important, it does not get done in a week. And all he was thinking about was sex, I presume, because other than not having sex with him I was completely normal.

Because of Covid, I had to stop therapy and because I knew he was going to lose his job I told him lets try to work things out at least until all this is over. You have no idea how many times I wish I did not do that. How I wish we separated last year. It all looked great for a while, but then it went back to what it was before except that last year was hell for us. We had so much going on, especially DH. Now, we are in much worse situation for separation, but I am done. Deep inside I cannot pretend any more.

@Alcemeg
did you stay with your DH or did you separate?

[quote loveyourself2020]@Alcemeg
did you stay with your DH or did you separate?[/quote]
Yes, I did. If you RTFT, it's all there. In fact, I've overshared here in the interests of supporting OP. I will probably ask for MN to delete some of my posts as I feel very exposed.

I left him many years ago and am now very happily married to someone who treats me with kindness and respect.

I have a whole new life. Even completely different friends. It's not that I didn't like the old ones, just that it can be hard staying in touch with people who knew you as a couple. There's a tension about whether they might feel disloyal to one or the other by staying in touch.

When people have met me who knew me back then, they comment on how different I am. Apparently my every other word used to be "sorry." One commented that she felt I had escaped a "cruel fate."

@Alcemeg
Thank you for sharing. It helps those of us who are still struggling.

@ravenmum thanks for the info re making plans. Yes, I am having individual therapy too, I've had 7 sessions now. We've mainly been focusing on my habit of putting other peoples' (my husband's) emotions before mine and she's encouraging me to feel my feelings. Not sure how much further she can get me though!

@Alcemeg thank you so so much for sharing all of your experiences, I appreciate you (and so many others) sticking with me for so long. I know I am going round in circles and must be a source of frustration for many of you 😆 everything you have said has been so helpful, so please don't feel like you're being a bee in my bonnet!

Also, because you are used to defending yourself against the calm / rational / logical tactics, you feel you don't have a leg to stand on LOGICALLY for leaving just when things are about to get miraculously better. You cannot respond now to the actions of the past, because the actions of the present don't match. That would just be silly! Silly, irrational woman.

That's exactly it though! I failed to act at the time so now things are better I have missed the boat! That is exactly what he seems to think, in a bad moment the other day he said he thinks I am throwing away my family when he has so much to give me, just because I am pining over the OM and that he thought that was pathetic.

When I found myself agreeing to stay, and try, for a bit longer, I would look into my heart and just felt no joy whatsoever. Just a feeling of grey numbness, the way you might feel about a weekend away someone else has organised that you feel duty bound to participate in.

That is how I feel - just numb and vaguely disappointed in myself for not being brave enough to make the leap (which in itself does still terrify me). But, also a bit relieved that I wouldn't need to deal with impending divorce 😬

Actually this reminds me that one of the reasons I split with ex is we went away on a holiday while we were trying to work things out and he was lovely, and we had a lovely time. He asked what I was thinking and I said I couldn't see me leaving....it was like a switch, he started being off with me for the rest of the week which caused me anxiety, I was tiptoeing round him and he had a huge go at me about OM and how badly I was treating him (exH).

We're due to be going on holiday too!! I can imagine a similar scenario (except I know my husband would be so happy if I gave him any sort of positive sign). It's more likely he'll have a wobble that I'm still failing to be able to show any love despite what a lovely holiday we're having (or something along those lines). He gets his hopes up whenever we have a fun moment and it's really hard to see that and know that I'm almost immediately dashing those hopes.

@loveyourself2020 what's the next steps for you? Are you going to start separation discussions soon? You sound like you're in an impossible situation at the moment, I hope you manage to find a path out soon

Another slight blip tonight (but - my husband has managed to catch himself and reel his behaviour in before it escalated, which is definitely a positive change). He's become worried that I am secretly emailing the OM at work (I'm not) and he started spiralling a bit over that and becoming more and more stroppy over it. Usually that kind of mood descends into a proper bully event but he's managed to pull it back and explained he's struggling still to deal with the affair, and needs my understanding. So, a bit of an anxious evening seeing how his mood was turning, but pleasantly surprised that he's turned it around (hopefully).

@Polkadots2021 @1WayOrAnother2 @trockodile thank you for your messages and kind words as well

You see, he knows which buttons to press, really.

He thinks you are throwing away your family’ - well, no - he is still not acknowledging that his behaviour played a part in events, that is the first thing, but also note the way he uses what is valuable to you - family - and frames your potential decision to leave in such a negative way. Family comes in many shapes and forms, and the configuration you have with him is not the only possibility. So 1) he is blaming you and 2) he is reinforcing the idea of family only being with him. Clever.

And this is all when he has so much to give you. Of course, again, failing to acknowledge that he could have given you all that years ago and then you would not be where you are now. Casting himself as the good guy here. Very clever.

And then that you are apparently pining over OM and he thought that was pathetic. He is ascribing behaviour to you to belittle you and put you on the defensive because you have to then assure him that of course you are not pining for OM but working on the marriage with him. Centring him but also making sure you feel devalued (‘pathetic’ in his words). Clever again. Same pattern with his almost-strop about whether you contact OM at work; just reminding you oh so not so gently that you are at fault, if there are any ‘blips’ they are your fault.

He has successfully cast himself as the person whose behaviour is keeping the (only imaginable) family together and offering the (only imaginable) family a future (he has so much to give) and you as the one who is threatening it (with what are now imagined transgressions and your (valid to me) unwillingness to show love) and then is continually reinforcing this dynamic with all his little pressures that you show him some love (aka be physical) which of course puts you more on the back foot because in your heart of hearts you don’t want to and so you too buy into this narrative that but for your own actions and inability to feel love for him, everything would be fine.

It seems to me like a war of attrition which you cannot win. At most you can be happy that he has only thrown some hand grenades today and not launched rockets and the family has survived another day. It is probably a matter of perspective whether that is better or worse than taking the family apart and configuring it anew.

@KatySun spot on, unfortunately

So many 'blips' already. Then you are so adept at explaining them all in a way that make them a 'good sign' (really not to us reading)
It is exhausting and beyond frustrating to read so God knows what it's like to live.
Leave the man you don't love. He's really not a good guy. All his 'self help' reading us just that- stuff to help himself cling on to you, when it's obvious it is best for you to go.

I can't really expect him to suddenly get over my affair though can I? He's bound to have upsets and anxieties over that, surely? This is why I wish I didn't have this complication muddying the waters so much

It seems to me like a war of attrition which you cannot win. At most you can be happy that he has only thrown some hand grenades today and not launched rockets and the family has survived another day. It is probably a matter of perspective whether that is better or worse than taking the family apart and configuring it anew.

This has given me something to ponder, thank you katysun.

I think to some extent yes, he does need to get over your affair if there is a future to this marriage, just like he is expecting you to get over his behaviour. Of course that does not have to be sudden but it needs to happen. For as long as he holds onto it as a point to raise every now and then to keep you in your place as ‘at fault’, then it won’t work - because you know that the situation was not that black and white, that things were wrong in the marriage and he was treating you badly.

So if he frames his behaviour as ‘over’ and himself as so much to give, the parallel is that your affair is ‘over’ and you have so much to give, no?

It seems to me that neither are actually over, though, in the sense that they are still affecting your marriage. His previous behaviour is there in the background, breaking through in the ‘blips’ which he blames you for, and he keeps raising your affair as a stick to beat you with. The only way past that is for him to drop the stick and engage in open and constructive dialogue which recognises his part in matters, and therefore your affair as part of the history of your marriage, not as your transgression - does that make sense? At the moment, the entire narrative of your marriage is skewed towards him as the good guy who has been wronged (in fact, doubly so because not only did you have an affair, you did not tell him that his anger and tempers were driving you out of the marriage -?!)

And yes, start to pay attention to how he uses the idea of family because he knows that is important to you. And your behaviour as the threat to the family. If you can notice he is doing it, it might help you stop internalising it.