Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Does love come back/what do I do

999 replies

helplesshopeless · 06/04/2021 10:03

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
QuentinBunbury · 12/05/2021 17:21

Thanks for posting blue. Similar to my story too. There are so many of this personality type out there Sad

helplesshopeless · 12/05/2021 17:55

It's interesting, my immediate response when reading your messages @Cavagirl and @ravenmum was to defend him (e.g. 'he doesn't mean for me ignore an angry outburst, just more when he's a bit off/grumpy' and 'I don't think he meant his angry temper when he was referring to the 'grumps'). I constantly feel the need to do that on this thread and I don't know if it's because of that ingrained behaviour that I seem to have developed, or whether I feel a sense of loyalty, or feel like my descriptions have misled or done him a disservice somehow. Maybe a combination of all?!

I have a sense of 'but he really isn't that bad' when I'm on here, and I'm constantly going round in circles trying to work out if he actually isn't that bad, or I am minimising his behaviour, or actually on the flip side if I've created and overreacted to this whole issue!

@bluecarry wow; so many similarities!! Your marriage counsellor sounds dreadful, I really hope we get a good one. And oh my goodness, my husband finding this thread is my worst nightmare. How did your ex manage to find yours?! He must have known you had one?! As indicated above, my initial reaction to your experience is that I really don't think my husband would do any of the things you mentioned when it started to escalate. I genuinely think he's going to continue to work on himself. I just don't know where this leaves me in terms of my own feelings (as I keep saying!). Anyway, well done you for managing to get through it, and it's so lovely to hear you're now in a happy and healthy relationship Thanks

OP posts:
peridito · 12/05/2021 20:15

It does seem that there are examples on this thread of shocking behaviour by spouses .And I agree ,your husband doesn't seem to be amongst the worst .

But ,it's not a competition is it . Your situation isn't easier to cope with OP ,possibly it's made more difficult because your husband's behaviour is less overt ,more nuanced .

KatySun · 12/05/2021 22:07

I wonder if one of the reasons you are defending him is because of course he is your husband and there is a hurdle to get over in accepting that this behaviour is going on in your marriage. After all, we are brought up to believe that women have equality and marriage is a romantic partnership of equals and this is what we expect when we get married.

So there are two things: the difficulty of accepting that this ideal is not what you have, that there are problems which go to the heart of your marriage and behaviours which are actually damaging to you in what is your most important adult relationship. That is difficult because there is a gulf between the marriage which the world expects you to have and what you are experiencing. And actually that is hard to admit to yourself, still harder to admit to the world.

KatySun · 12/05/2021 22:08

*there were supposed to be two things but I am too tired to make them sound coherent.

Cavagirl · 12/05/2021 22:41

Agree with Katysun and another reason is probably this A huge part of my identity is being part of this 'nuclear family' and I feel like I've failed on that if we separate

If you agree with people that he is being unreasonable and shit, then there should be a consequence - what are you going to do about it then? Your own sense of self is so depend on him, what he's feeling, that it's (understandably) difficult to take a step back and objectively view his behaviour as being crap. This is why some time apart would be useful - to get this perspective and a sense of your own self, what you think.

Do you have much of your independent self, outside of your relationship with him? Forgive me I had a quick flick back but can't see you've ever said how old you were when you got together, how many years you've been together etc? (Apologies if I missed it!)

KatySun · 13/05/2021 06:28

Ach, I just wrote a long post and it deleted! It was about shame and how I felt about the breakdown of my marriage.

helplesshopeless · 13/05/2021 07:22

I just had an awful thought. What if I'm just following 'the script' that we talk about on here when husbands cheat? Maybe I am subconsciously trying to re-write history and that's why I can't quite bring myself to stop defending him?!

I also think it's because he's changed so much since this all came out. If he had continued with his usual behaviour I'd find it much easier to see and draw a line under things. But he is genuinely a different person right now and if he had been like this a few years ago I'd probably be happily continuing with things. So I don't feel like I have enough justification now to end it.

I wonder if one of the reasons you are defending him is because of course he is your husband and there is a hurdle to get over in accepting that this behaviour is going on in your marriage

Yes I definitely think this was a factor prior to my affair. Since it all came out though I've had a bit of an awakening to his behaviour (the only confusion now is that that behaviour has stopped!)

Do you have much of your independent self, outside of your relationship with him? Forgive me I had a quick flick back but can't see you've ever said how old you were when you got together, how many years you've been together etc? (Apologies if I missed it!)

Good question! We were 26 when I got together and have been together for 9 years, married for 5. In terms of independent self, that melted away slightly when my daughter arrived 😁 but I do have lovely friends separate from my husband, and hobbies I'd like to get back to post lockdown and now my daughter is more independent. So I don't feel like my identity is completely wrapped up in him.

OP posts:
ravenmum · 13/05/2021 08:00

I just had an awful thought. What if I'm just following 'the script' that we talk about on here when husbands cheat? Maybe I am subconsciously trying to re-write history and that's why I can't quite bring myself to stop defending him?!
We all rewrite history; not just people who have cheated. The "script" is useful to recognise the signs of an affair, and/or to realise you are not alone, and/or to help you demonise your ex if you so fancy Grin but it is just a description of something that everyone does all the time - not only cheats. My exh was the cheat, but of course I've reassessed everything that happened since we first met in the light of the latest twist in the plot. Human beings love a coherent narrative. Are the standards you set yourself so high that you're planning to rise above human nature? Don't forget that we have evolved to think this way as it is good for our mental health.

I have a sense of 'but he really isn't that bad' when I'm on here
I've found it helpful not only to reassess my ideas of how nice my exh is (aka rewriting history) but also to loosen up on the categorisation. Someone can be a shit in some ways and great in other ways. The key question is not "is he good or bad?"; it is "Do I want to live with this particular behaviour?"

ravenmum · 13/05/2021 08:08

But he is genuinely a different person right now and if he had been like this a few years ago I'd probably be happily continuing with things. So I don't feel like I have enough justification now to end it.
You're really not in a court of law, having to prove it's OK to go. But you don't have to end it now, either. You could leave next year, or in 5 years - or maybe he will leave, or have an affair ... In any case, you know that things are tricky, so it would be a good idea to plan ahead, get information together so that you are ready to spring into action if required, and make sure you are in a good financial position if possible.

peridito · 13/05/2021 08:53

You're really not in a court of law, having to prove it's OK to go. But you don't have to end it now, either. You could leave next year, or in 5 years

quite . There doesn't have to be 75% unacceptable behaviour,25% acceptable behaviour ,or even vice versa for you to leave .

You sound as though you want to leave him .Understandably you feel guilty about your relationship with someone else and the effect your actions will have on your child .I really doubt the effect on your child will be wholly negative and I think you must try not to let guilt cloud your thoughts .
The unhealthy dynamic /situation between you and your husband existed before you other relationship .You can't make yourself love your husband .

QuentinBunbury · 13/05/2021 11:05

OK helpless a very similar scenario was a catalyst for me leaving exH. I fell in love with a work colleague, we are still together now and I still adore him deeply. I've asked myself the same about "the script" and here's what helped me:

  1. I was honest with exH about the situation because I wanted my marriage to work; he didn't find out and cause me to "rewrite history". In the script it's something that happens when someone I'd caught out in an affair, not when someone's trying to save their marriage.
  2. I could point to actual things that happened before DP was on the scene that exH hadn't responded to. For example I tried to talk to him about being being unhappy and his response was to shout "If I'm that awful you should just fucking leave" and refuse to discuss it. I was also working away regularly and he told me that he and the children didn't really notice and in fact it was easier when I wasn't there as I disrupted his routine. There's more but I could point to disrespect and contempt that starved my love for him, before DP was anywhere in my life.
  3. The way exH behaved drove me to leave. He wouldn't engage on any of the reasons I was unhappy in the marriage, all he would focus on was whether I wanted sex with someone else. He kept me awake at night. He put me under immense pressure and eventually it was intolerable. I had no choice but to leave.
  4. Despite everything he said about giving me space, temporary separation blah, when I did move out he told me to get all my stuff out of the house immediately or he'd skip it. He manipulated the children so they didn't know which way was up.

My ex bought me leaving on himself. All he needed to do was treat me with love, kindness and respect. But he couldn't.

Despite all that, my children are doing OK. Lots of their friends have divorced parents, it's usual to them. They think me and exH are both happier apart. They like my partner and his kids, and my existing partner and her kids. They LOVE double holidays, presents, Easter eggs etc.
Even in the immediate aftermath they were OK.
Your daughter will be OK. In fact she will be pleased to have a happier mummy.

With respect to my DP, during the period where I was trying to save my marriage and only in very minimal work related contact with him, he showed me a totally different way of being in a relationship. He respected what I had to do. He put no pressure on me at all.

We continue to be equals. What I want and need is important to him and he does his best to make that happen. He thinks about me all the time, cheerleads for me and supports me. It is so totally different. I have no regret over leaving although I still feel like I "failed".

QuentinBunbury · 13/05/2021 11:06

my existing partner
Don't know what my phone was up to. My exH new partner!

Cavagirl · 13/05/2021 12:22

Hi OP
Thanks, I'd wondered if I was going mad!

I don't feel like my identity is completely wrapped up in him

If it's not him per se, why do you think then you say your identity feels so dependent on the nuclear family idea and you'd feel a failure if you separated (without "giving" your daughter a sibling?)

Obviously no one likes the idea of ending a marriage. But the words you use to describe it all - failure, not enough justification, accepting being "happy enough" to avoid it, etc - they are all quite shame-filled, obligation-filled. Why is being unhappy and wanting more for your life, and wanting to model that expectation to your daughter, not enough justification?

Alcemeg · 13/05/2021 14:36

Flowers Flowers Flowers Flowers Flowers to all the amazing women sharing their stories on this thread. 💗 So much overlap.

@helplesshopeless, I'm going to hold up a mirror again, sorry!

he used to get really angry if I cried or my voice wobbled a bit during arguments (often mocking me), and he'd minimise or twist anything I said if I tried to raise any grievances or defend myself.
This is not just someone having a bit of a temper on them. This is someone who is used to not treating you with respect, and what makes the situation tricky is that you've probably just got used to it and don't particularly notice unless something is really upsetting. It just becomes normal.

Things my ex-DH used to say and do, and even partners in subsequent relationships, I wouldn't tolerate for a second now that I'm used to being treated with kindness and fairness. But at the time, I just considered it normal to be discounted. In fact, I helped to smooth things along by discounting myself. I didn't even realise I was doing it.

But even now, I'm thinking perhaps I didn't raise those issues in the right way (I probably was snappy or impatient sometimes for example) and so it's my fault he got angry!
I have occasionally got impatient with my lovely now-DH, and he always understands why and says it was fair. It's so easy when someone actually seeks to understand you, instead of deliberately misreading you. (Or better still, understands you already because they see the world through the same eyes.)

He said that he wants me to stop this and it's not my job to deal with his grumps, and if I think he's being less than happy then just to ignore him and remember that he loves me more than anything.
This sounds like a ticket to be able to behave however he likes because you just have to overwrite your experience with the magic code "He loves me," even if it's not too apparent from his behaviour.

I have a sense of 'but he really isn't that bad' when I'm on here, and I'm constantly going round in circles trying to work out if he actually isn't that bad, or I am minimising his behaviour, or actually on the flip side if I've created and overreacted to this whole issue!
I had a few visits with a counsellor before the split, just as a sanity check. This required me to overcome my default "Loyalty" setting. It felt intensely uncomfortable to hear myself describing him to a stranger in ways that he would consider disloyal. (This despite the fact that I was paying to do so! 😄) I kept thinking, I must tell her everything I can think of, including all the good stuff. Because of course he was fundamentally a good man, just that we were both set in unhealthy patterns of behaviour. I kept thinking that there must be something I hadn't mentioned yet, that when she heard it she'd say "Ah, well in that case you really mustn't leave him," but she never did.

It takes two to tango, and our deeply ingrained patterns of behaviour were just inescapable because of who we were. We could only have started behaving differently towards each other by becoming different people, and we could only become different people by experiencing other relationships and learning from those.

I now think of love as something that must flow freely, like a river, through our network of relationships, and not get blocked in one spot, as happens when our energy keeps having to swirl around one particular relationship. If that makes sense! Not sure I have the words to describe something that I feel in a very abstract way.

Mix56 · 13/05/2021 16:21

You keep saying you dont/cant love him anymore, but think you should,
He says he will make it better.
But what is done is done, he cant delete it,
& now he flicks a switch, & is suddenly able to be nice...& you're supposed to believe he can keep it up.
If he manages to be nice now, & he loves you so much, why oh why was he a complete bastard before?
IMHO this is like a psycho murder film, its so devious,
You are doubting your own mind, because its not real.

Its like he deliberately breaks a plate & then glues it back together & says "look I fixed it, its good as new"

Peach1886 · 13/05/2021 16:24

@Alcemeg definitely Flowers yes, I was going to say the same thing...it has been so good (even though we've all had/are having such difficulty) to see so many brave women sorting themselves out.

@helplesshopeless I'm sure you don't feel inspirational but I can promise you that you are, everything you or someone else writes on this thread I am nodding or thinking yep I recognise that Wine

IND1A · 13/05/2021 17:25

I also think it's because he's changed so much since this all came out. If he had continued with his usual behaviour I'd find it much easier to see and draw a line under things. But he is genuinely a different person right now and if he had been like this a few years ago I'd probably be happily continuing with things

I’m very impressed that someone manages to become a whole new person in just a few weeks. Because I have struggled to change relatively small things about myself:

To exercise more
To pray / meditate
To floss my teeth several times a day ( got that one ticked )
To eat fewer Pringles ( had to go cold turkey on that one)
To eat more vegetables ( that’s taken a year to become a habit )
To give up alcohol ( I lasted for a year but have now slipped up )
To come to terms with my childhood ( took months of counselling and years of self help )

Some of these things I’m still working on after decades. I’d still like to lose another stone and a half ( see the alcohol, Pringles and ice cream above ).

Maybe I just have very little willpower. But I’ve never heard of anyone becoming a new person in a few weeks. Let alone an abuser who turned around his whole value system overnight. Because that’s what makes them abuse . It’s their sense of entitlement and desire for power and control over others.

So I’m confused about your husband @helplesshopeless. Do you a tally believe that he used to think abuse was ok ( although he only abused you ) but as soon as you told him it wasn’t he stopped?

Or that he always knew it was wrong but he didn’t care because he enjoyed it and there was no cost to him only benefits ? But now the cost outweighs the benefits so he’s stopped for a while.

I don’t understand what your explanation is for this whole new person belief and why that means you have to stay.

Because for most women it would make it worse that all that behaviour was totally under his control and he could stop anytime he wanted. But you seem to think that’s better.

IND1A · 13/05/2021 17:26

Oops “ do you really believe” .

QuentinBunbury · 13/05/2021 17:27

Great post india

FantasticButtocks · 13/05/2021 18:45

...it would make it worse that all that behaviour was totally under his control and he could stop anytime he wanted.

Yes, this.

The fact he is now able to act like a normal decent person (because he thinks it serves him) would make me furious if I'd endured all this terrible behaviour from him for years! It certainly wouldn't make me at all likely to fall back in love with him!

I know you'd like to do that because it would be easier, but the whole point of falling in love with someone is that it is an unstoppable thing that happens. It is not a thing you can force.

His behaviour may have changed in recent weeks. That does not mean he has turned into a different person!

helplesshopeless · 14/05/2021 08:25

You could leave next year, or in 5 years - or maybe he will leave, or have an affair ... In any case, you know that things are tricky, so it would be a good idea to plan ahead, get information together so that you are ready to spring into action if required, and make sure you are in a good financial position if possible.

Yes, true...I think I'm putting pressure on myself to make a decision while my daughter is young and will be less impacted by a split. Also, my husband will want me to confirm in the next few months (at the latest) how I think this is going to go as he can't live in limbo forever.

I have a financial plan and I think that will be ok (not ideal be ok). What other information should I get together?!

@QuentinBunbury thank you so much for sharing. That does sound scarily similar!! Did your ex husband resent you ending up with the person that you had an affair with? For me, unfortunately I was 'found out' and definitely was not planning on admitting everything independently. I was actually preparing myself to let go of the OM and ending it as I could see how self destructive I was being. Your current DP sounds lovely. Similar to the OM to me in that he has just completely left me to it to work on my marriage, no expectations or pressure in the slightest.

We continue to be equals. What I want and need is important to him and he does his best to make that happen. He thinks about me all the time, cheerleads for me and supports me. It is so totally different. I have no regret over leaving although I still feel like I "failed".

This made me cry!

If it's not him per se, why do you think then you say your identity feels so dependent on the nuclear family idea and you'd feel a failure if you separated (without "giving" your daughter a sibling?)

I think it's that I always wanted to get married and have children. That was my main aim in life to be honest! And now I've achieved that and am looking at potentially breaking it all up.

Why is being unhappy and wanting more for your life, and wanting to model that expectation to your daughter, not enough justification?

I suppose I feel like I've agreed to marry someone, we promised to stay together for better and for worse. And now I am potentially going to break that vow, at a moment when my husband is so dedicated to changing everything to stay with me. I feel like I'm making a mockery of marriage (and yes, he did first in his treatment of me, but going forwards we're assuming that won't be a factor).

It felt intensely uncomfortable to hear myself describing him to a stranger in ways that he would consider disloyal. (This despite the fact that I was paying to do so! 😄) I kept thinking, I must tell her everything I can think of, including all the good stuff. Because of course he was fundamentally a good man, just that we were both set in unhealthy patterns of behaviour.

That is exactly what it feels like! I keep thinking that I have misled in my descriptions, or not quite explained things properly which has resulted in me showing him in an undeserved bad light.

This sounds like a ticket to be able to behave however he likes because you just have to overwrite your experience with the magic code "He loves me," even if it's not too apparent from his behaviour.

Hmm, yes. He did say he didn't want to have to monitor his own behaviour just so that I didn't read into it (but, to be fair to him as I always must be 😆, he was referring to when he is just a bit short or not smiley or something, not being actively unpleasant).

Its like he deliberately breaks a plate & then glues it back together & says "look I fixed it, its good as new"

Another hmm yes to this! That is what it feels like when he says 'I loved him once when he still had his temper, why can't I love him now when he only has his good bits left.'

Do you a tally believe that he used to think abuse was ok ( although he only abused you ) but as soon as you told him it wasn’t he stopped?

Or that he always knew it was wrong but he didn’t care because he enjoyed it and there was no cost to him only benefits ? But now the cost outweighs the benefits so he’s stopped for a while.

I don’t understand what your explanation is for this whole new person belief and why that means you have to stay.

Because for most women it would make it worse that all that behaviour was totally under his control and he could stop anytime he wanted. But you seem to think that’s better.

I completely understand why you're saying all this, and I would probably make the same points from the outside looking in. I really don't know, it's like he's had a huge revelation and is making an enormous upheaval in his whole life values. He's reading so many self help books, totally embracing putting in place healthy habits, so excited to become a better person and start enjoying life again. And while perhaps I should be cross that he didn't bother to do this earlier, I just can't be angry with him at all when he's making such huge leaps to improve for himself and for me. I find it difficult to hold onto any anger at all really!

OP posts:
helplesshopeless · 14/05/2021 08:28

We had our first joint therapy session last night. It was just an initial discussion to outline our issues. It went well, I think. My husband was very rational in how he explained things in the way that I find difficult to challenge, but I did also explain my side and the therapist definitely understood it and challenged a few things he said. She also said she will work with us on our communication issues so that going forwards, even if we do separate, we will still be able to work together for our daughter. So I am cautiously optimistic, but we shall see!

OP posts:
ravenmum · 14/05/2021 09:34

That sounds good OP, are you also doing individual therapy?

Information to get together - basically looking through your options and working out the specific details of where you would live, how finances would work out (maintenance?), what your rights are, where you stand legally. So that you can't be scared by any false threats, and so that you are not choosing between the known and the unknown (and thus scary).

ravenmum · 14/05/2021 09:40

You can also do some things such as opening a separate bank account if you have not got one already.

planner.relate.org.uk/getting-organised/planning-ahead

Swipe left for the next trending thread