Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

Hello, @helplesshopeless, lovely to hear from you again. I have often thought of you and wondered how you were getting on.

I can't really remember what it feels like to feel love (for him) so I'm a bit lost in that respect. I just keep thinking that he is someone that has the potential to behave as he did previously, and I don't want to be with someone who has that in them.

This sounds perfectly rational.

actually all I could think was I wouldn't want to have had to say anything at all, I'd want him to be someone who would never treat someone he loved like that.

That also sounds perfectly rational, and actually something of a breakthrough?

Even now, when he is really trying to be caring and thoughtful, I don't quite believe it's coming from a place of actual altruism.

I think "altruism" is an interesting choice of word for describing relating to someone with respect and kindness. Like it's a sort of moral luxury, not the fundamental basis of a happy relationship.

It sounds as though you know perfectly well that his essential nature is not going to change, and is not one that you can look forward to a happy future with. Your gut reaction of panic/impending doom at the prospect of staying with him is very telling.

he's made it clear he wants to be with me and he knows I don't love him.

That in itself is rather weird. Would you insist on staying with someone if you knew they didn't love you? If you really loved them, wouldn't you encourage them to go out and find happiness in whatever way they choose? I can't imagine life without my lovely DH#2, but if he were to tell me one day that he didn't love me any more, I would send him on his way with all my blessings and a heart full of loving good intentions, grateful for the time we shared and not wanting to make a mockery of that by persisting in some kind of delusional bullshit that everything was just fine.

I'm worried I'll finally make the leap, things settle down, and I suddenly realise I've been a huge fool in tearing us apart.
Hahaaaa!!!!! I can give you a money-back guarantee that this won't happen.

It's only natural to feel that way about someone who has become part of your entire identity. But they are so important in your life that there is no way you would entertain the idea of leaving them at all unless you have very good reason.

What I found profoundly shocking when I left DH#1 was that I didn't miss him at all. I kept waiting for the day when I'd wake up aching for his company, the sound of his voice, etc, and I never did. As time went on, I stopped dreading the day it would all kick in suddenly and began to have more confidence in my new life, learning to trust my own judgement.

Re the OM,
I'm worried that any decision I make is going to be clouded by that hope.
I don't think you should worry that you're ditching a perfectly good marriage because of some teenage crush. Give yourself some credit, you sound very clear-sighted. It sounds as though you're just using this as another stick to beat yourself with, sabotaging your self-belief.

If the thought of him is cheering you along a bit, then that's good! And there is no harm in hoping to meet up again! In the meantime, he's serving a good purpose in your life right now, representing alternative possibilities, which are good to keep in mind.

One worst-case scenario could be: You leave DH, meet up again with OM, and develop a proper relationship with him. Over time, you gradually realise you were idealising OM a little, so that relationship doesn't work out so great either. Eventually you end it, and learn a lot, and life goes on, but this time with you having a much clearer understanding of what you're looking for in a partner.

It's not really such a terrifying prospect, is it?
Not as terrifying as staying put for the next half-century 😁

It's great that you have given proper thought to finances and custody. I can't help wondering if your reluctance to act just yet is not so much to do with any doubts you may have, or fear of the future, but rather... to do with waiting out a period of time that your husband considers appropriate. My DH#1, for example, kept saying "We've been together 17 years, you could at least give it another 6 months."

Oh God I've written another essay!!!!!!!!! Sorry!!!!

What would you do if you weren't afraid?

Do that.

He has stopped all the suggestive comments of sex after you asked him to - another example of something you should not have had to ask... but then he also wants a baby (how’s that going to happen then?). There’s a massive load of emotional manipulation right there - holding out the happy families carrot when in reality you will be the one pregnant for nine months, looking after a newborn and unable to go anywhere easily with a toddler and a newborn as and when he decides the sleepless nights are too much and his temper makes a resurgence, or whatever.
That’s before you get onto the fact that apparently he knows you don’t love him. Wanting a baby with someone you know does not love you is coercive, no? In fact, wanting any kind of relationship with someone you know does not love you, ditto.

Talking about wanting a baby is emotional manipulation at this point.

alcemeg another hugely insightful post that had me nodding all the way through!

OP you say you're afraid of: I suddenly realise I've been a huge fool in tearing us apart

In what realistic future scenario is it that you imagine that happening? What would need to be the case for you to feel this way? I think if you work through it in your mind it will help make things a bit clearer.

Like PP I also suspect deep down you're waiting for permission to act.

Boy reading some of the comments here on MN is better than therapy. First of all, OP I am so glad you finally responded as I was getting worried about you. Funny, how you get used to getting in touch with people here on MN as if we are meeting in real life. Oh, I wish. I truly wish I can meet some of you guys in real life. I especially enjoyed reading, @I0NA and @Alcemeg.

OP, there is time for everything. Perhaps your time to leave your DH has not yet come, but it will. You started a process and I do not think anyone can reverse it now. So, no need to rush it or push it, just wait and the opportunity will present itself. The only thing I would like to bold and underline is what everyone else is saying, make sure you do not make any changes in your life right now that will make your separation even harder, like leaving your job or having another baby. One thing my therapist told me really resonated with me, she said, it is usually a woman who works hard on a relationship, nurturing it, trying to fix it, initiating change for better. So if she has a couple who came for therapy and a woman is invested and believes that they can change there is a chance. But she says there comes the time when a woman is done and if that is so, there is nothing anyone can do to save the marriage, no hope. Just like you, I simply have no love for my husband right now (not for quite some time), I care for him as a human being, but not as a husband, and she says this was a sign for her that our marriage cannot be mended.

You seem like an amazing person, so loving and caring and kind, you so deserve someone who will appreciate it, cherish it and love you with all his heart.

Ah, I absolutely love all of you ladies

It's only natural to feel that way about someone who has become part of your entire identity. But they are so important in your life that there is no way you would entertain the idea of leaving them at all unless you have very good reason.

I think that's what it is actually. A huge part of my identity is being part of this 'nuclear family' and I feel like I've failed on that if we separate (extra failure points for not even managing to give my daughter a sibling first!). I guess that is something that fades with time once I'm out the other side. Really reassuring though to hear that you didn't miss your husband alcemeg even after 17 years of being together!

If the thought of him is cheering you along a bit, then that's good! And there is no harm in hoping to meet up again! In the meantime, he's serving a good purpose in your life right now, representing alternative possibilities, which are good to keep in mind.

True! It does feel like a betrayal though to be allowing those kind of thoughts when I'm focussing so much on trying to get things back on track with DH.

I can't help wondering if your reluctance to act just yet is not so much to do with any doubts you may have, or fear of the future, but rather... to do with waiting out a period of time that your husband considers appropriate.

I do think there is an element of feeling like I owe it more time. Although, that is definitely not coming from my husband as he is really struggling with this being in limbo feeling and would rather it be over (whatever 'over' means) which actually makes me wonder if I'm being cruel in dragging this out. I just don't feel confident in making any decision at the moment and don't want to rush things. Still holding out hope that love will come back!! We are starting couples therapy this week so I think that will help us discuss things in a more healthy way.

Talking about wanting a baby is emotional manipulation at this point.

I get why you'd say that. I don't think he means it to be, he is just desperate for a second child and it was something we'd always planned on

In what realistic future scenario is it that you imagine that happening? What would need to be the case for you to feel this way? I think if you work through it in your mind it will help make things a bit clearer.

I'm not actually sure! I do worry about scenarios such as losing my job and struggling. We are very financially secure as a unit (because of him rather than me mainly!) and it will be a shift to have to get used to less certainty in that respect. But I know that that shouldn't be a factor in deciding whether I should stay (obviously). Perhaps it would be a scenario where I see that he truly has changed, he's maintained it over the years, is a better person, and I feel like I didn't give him a proper chance.

In pondering over it, I think my root issue is that providing he does maintain his better behaviour, I could probably be reasonably content with life. Lovely child(ren), lovely home, holidays etc. I'm wondering whether lack of proper love is good enough reason to destroy the possibility of being reasonably content?! I know how shallow that sounds. It's just a huge upheaval to be considering when I know that things could be ok overall going forwards (again, providing he maintains his behaviour which is a big if!).

One thing my therapist told me really resonated with me, she said, it is usually a woman who works hard on a relationship, nurturing it, trying to fix it, initiating change for better. So if she has a couple who came for therapy and a woman is invested and believes that they can change there is a chance. But she says there comes the time when a woman is done and if that is so, there is nothing anyone can do to save the marriage, no hope.

That is interesting. I am intrigued to hear what our couples therapist makes of this situation. I feel like we're hanging all our hopes on them at the moment, so they'd better be good!!

We had a bit of a blip last night, my husband had been stewing over my affair and got very upset, had some drinks, got angry and had an outburst at me. He feels terrible this morning and has apologised, and is kicking himself for allowing his temper to rear its head again. I've noticed this morning that I've slipped back into mum/therapist role in trying to make him feel better about it all, trying to make him feel happy and cheer him up. I don't blame him for being upset at all, I have hurt him deeply, so I understand how much of a difficult position he is in terms of trying to show me he's changed while also working through his own hurt. I've created such a mess!

He can be upset, that's reasonable of course. I can also understand how you feel some guilt over that. What's not reasonable is his reaction to that emotion. And here you are again this morning feeling like it's your fault he had an angry outburst because you had an affair and you've created this mess.
That's not true. He's a grown up and he should be able to control himself to not having an angry outburst when upset. Him having an angry outburst is not your fault.

I've noticed this morning that I've slipped back into mum/therapist role in trying to make him feel better about it all, trying to make him feel happy and cheer him up can you stop yourself? I'm not comparing the two as equivalent, but can you imagine his response now if you'd had a "blip" and texted OM? It certainly wouldn't be "I can understand because she's so upset about my temper, gosh I've created such a mess".

I have to say my face did go a bit 😬 when you said you're going ahead with couples therapy... but perhaps wiser ones on this thread will have a more informed view than me on that. Have you mentioned it to your current therapist? What did she think? I'd be very concerned that you'd be going into therapy with very different aims in mind, and he's going to use it as a stick it beat you with...

Not sure if anyone's recommended reading about sunk costs fallacy but you might find it interesting psiloveyou.xyz/you-may-be-staying-too-long-in-your-relationship-due-to-sunk-cost-fallacy-7ad9a7c1d62e

We had a bit of a blip last night, my husband had been stewing over my affair and got very upset, had some drinks, got angry and had an outburst at me. He feels terrible this morning and has apologised, and is kicking himself for allowing his temper to rear its head again. I've noticed this morning that I've slipped back into mum/therapist role in trying to make him feel better about it all, trying to make him feel happy and cheer him up. I don't blame him for being upset at all, I have hurt him deeply, so I understand how much of a difficult position he is in terms of trying to show me he's changed while also working through his own hurt. I've created such a mess!

So he chose to drink to excess, knowing that it removed inhibitions.

Then he chose to not use any appropriate coping strategies.

Then he chose to verbally abuse you.

And your reaction is to try to make him feel better AND to post here on MN about his feelings “ he feel terrible “ AND to take the blame “ the mess I’ve created “.

I’m not saying for one moment that you shouldn’t take responsibility for your own poor choices . But I’m confused why you are also taking responsibility for his.

You care about his feelings and try to make him feel better. But he doesn’t do the same for you.

It does feel like a betrayal though to be allowing those kind of thoughts when I'm focussing so much on trying to get things back on track with DH.

It's odd to hear you talking about the thoughts that cheer you up and give you something to look forward to (versus the panic/sense of impending doom associated with a future with your husband), as a betrayal. You are so used to keeping a tight rein on your own feelings and expectations that you automatically self-censor any that don't fit in with his needs. This is a process I am very familiar with from my own past experience. It's what makes this kind of trap so difficult to get out of.

Still holding out hope that love will come back!! We are starting couples therapy this week [...] My root issue is that providing he does maintain his better behaviour, I could probably be reasonably content with life [...] I'm wondering whether lack of proper love is good enough reason to destroy the possibility of being reasonably content?! [...] (again, providing he maintains his behaviour which is a big if!)

I understand your reluctance to give up a moderately comfortable life. I just think your choice of words is really interesting:

"maintain his better behaviour" / "providing he maintains his behaviour" suggests an awareness that this is something of a struggle/act for him, not a fundamental shift in attitude or personality (and you already know that's a big "if").

"I could probably be reasonably content with life" / "things could be OK overall" -- hmm, except in those moments of despair when you know nothing's really changed (sorry!) and wonder if you should have left years ago... (sorry!).

had an outburst at me is a funny one 🤣 it sounds like having a sneezing fit. A perfectly normal, natural thing that just happens to someone and cannot be contained.

Above all, you talk of lack of proper love ... so you do know perfectly well that this is not what love looks like.

This is all starting to sound like I'm rapping you over the knuckles and I don't mean it that way at all! Just wanted to reflect some of your own language back to you.

@loveyourself2020 your therapist's comment about whether the woman still wants to try and make it work being an indicator of whether a marriage has a chance...thank you for that, that's right where I am at the moment...just, just, on the side of giving it a try (but I'm in no mood for couple's therapy, the issues are DH's and my only contribution to our current unhappy state has been withdrawing because of them...)

@helplesshopeless it is rarely a good idea to get into couple's therapy with someone as abusive as your husband sounds, because it just allows them to manipulate the situation more. Please be very careful and I pray that your therapist knows what they're doing and can see the dynamic very quickly

Sorry, just realised there was something else:

I'm wondering whether lack of proper love is good enough reason to destroy the possibility of being reasonably content?!

It's not just the lack of proper love, not just the absence of something important... but the presence of something that undermines and erodes you.

You use plenty of modifiers when talking about the kind of happiness you can foresee with him ("the possibility of being reasonably content" etc). Meanwhile, something in your gut makes you feel panic and dread at the very same prospect.

We are starting couples therapy this week so I think that will help us discuss things in a more healthy way.
Maybe! I can see why you feel it's worth paying an external adjudicator to try and get your voice heard. It's quite a palaver though, having to involve a third party in order to be able to discuss things healthily.

Good luck OP!

What is the aim of couples counselling and is this the same for both of you?

I can see why you would do it - either it will work and bring something to the situation which changes the dynamic of the relationship and allows you to move forward in a healthy way or if it does not work, the counsellor will bring you both to this realisation.

My concern would be that there is abuse and manipulation at the heart of your relationship and therefore you are not on a level playing field to enter counselling. As I0NA says you are taking responsibility for his feelings as well as your own and internalising all his blame of you for the situation. It is completely one-sided.

Who is defining what the aims are, who decides if it is working or not, and how can you be sure it won’t just create more sticks to beat you with? For goodness sake, he has an angry outburst and instead of putting his emotions and anger back on the table where they belong, you pick up the stick and start beating yourself too. This is NOT all your fault.

We had a bit of a blip last night, my husband had been stewing over my affair and got very upset, had some drinks, got angry and had an outburst at me.

So him changing didn't last long then?
And we didn't have a blip, he had a blip.

Before you go to counselling, you need to decide yourself what you want to get out of it. Don't let him dictate the agenda and focus on your affair.

I echo other posters - be very very careful of couples counselling.

I'm afraid my own experience was negative. He played the remorse card to an absolute T and there was no evidence of the minimizing that drove me mad.

Thankfully I posted about it on here and some wise old Mumsnetters soon put me straight and I stopped it pretty quickly. Any thought of repeating that makes me feel unwell.

There's no worse feeling than sitting in a room with a trained professional and feeling that they are being manipulated. My H also used something I said, against me in the most horrible way so be very careful about what you reveal.

I'm struck by his anger outbursts. I wonder what angle he has used to justify it. It must be hard because you feel in some way that you deserve it and he will find it difficult to resist the urge to castigate you on it. The thing is I think your behaviour with your affair was reactive. He abused you for a long time, destroyed the love you had for him and maybe subconsciously it was your way of bringing things to a head.

I was listening to a podcast with Nicole LePera who talked about an ending of her relationship where she felt the catalyst was a location move. She described the event very eloquently as something that

“jostled my status quo just enough so that I began to look at myself in a different way, to look at myself in the nature of that relationship.....settling into the uncomfortable reality that this might not be the relationship for me, something was out of alignment....the first pang was my intuition that broke through to the surface....could no longer deny this authentic self that I barely inhabited but there was a shadow of it”

I believe what she is saying is that sometimes a catalyst (affair from either party, another destructive act from either party, a major bereavement, another life change) can shake things up to an extent that you see things with fresh eyes and puts you in touch again with your authentic self. I found her words very poignant and I feel your affair possibly has had that effect on you.

It does feel like a betrayal though to be allowing those kind of thoughts when I'm focussing so much on trying to get things back on track with DH.
Who is it you're afraid might hear your thoughts? Him? Your mum? God? You?

@Peach1886
@loveyourself2020 your therapist's comment about whether the woman still wants to try and make it work being an indicator of whether a marriage has a chance...thank you for that, that's right where I am at the moment...just, just, on the side of giving it a try (but I'm in no mood for couple's therapy, the issues are DH's and my only contribution to our current unhappy state has been withdrawing because of them...)

My DH did not even agree to do counseling. I personally did not think it would help anything, but I did want to tick that box. He said, he felt uncomfortable talking to strangers about his personal issues, which I can understand, but in the prospect of loosing his wife and a family in a way I thought you should try anything.

@loveyourself2020 I agree, if it's got to the pitch of losing the woman you say you love, and everything that goes with that, you'd hope they would be willing to at least try, as uncomfortable as it is...

let's hope @helplesshopeless's "D"H is going into this with the right motive...

Another thing that strikes me when l read your posts if how you always give him the benefit of the doubt when he behaves badly. You are so generous with your appraisal of his actions and think very kindly on him with his outbursts and stewing.

I believe this is a reflection of you and who you are, your value system and the goodness of your heart. It is not because he deserves it.

Take a step back and try and identify his ‘pattern’ over the years. Even when he is trying hard to improve, his underlying essence will keep bursting through, sometimes in very small ways.

Apply a large dose of healthy scepticism to how he is right now. You know deep down who he really is because he has shown you. Don’t take anything at face value. It is not negative to assume he will keep repeating his pattern of behaviour that he has developed over the years.

It is a realistic assumption based on real life evidence and experience.

Is this how you want to spend your one precious life?

P.S. By the way l haven’t missed my husband that much. It’s coming up to 3 months now. We were together 27 years. I have missed having a partner and struggled with loneliness but actually missing him as a person - hardly at all.

OP you sound so thoughtful and so lovely .I wish I could give you a hug .

Maybe you should focus less on making the right decision .Settle for making the best decision you can given the current circumstances .

FWIW ,please seperate . You can't force yourself to love someone .Sex will become a big issue ,trying repeatedly to be physically intimate with someone with whom you are not emotionally intimate will lead to huge resentment .

Your little girl will survive and I dont doubt will be the better for living in an honest relationship .

Dont do what I did and end up in your 70s,dreading the next 10 years and having created an unhealthily interdependent unit consisting of my partner and our offspring .Who is old enough to be independent and is really not .The longer you leave it the harder it will be .

Be brave ,be true to yourself and then .....Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Which is ,in my book ,a higher and more achievable aspiration than trying to force yourself to do something which you think is the correct thing to do .

Sadly for me, as I think it's throwing me into further turmoil, this is what the OM offered/could give me. I'm honestly still struggling with the fact that I have to give him up to properly give my husband a chance, as I just don't feel anything for my husband and I know there's someone out there who is better for me. But also I know that the ideal situation is for me to be happy with my husband rather than trying to extract myself, so I need to focus on trying to get there with him.

Look what you said some time ago - I know that the ideal situation is for me to be happy with my husband rather than trying to extract myself, so I need to focus on trying to get there with him

You're not a machine - you can't make yourself happy with your husband through sheer force of will .Or because you feel guilty and think you should .

You wont be able to forget that other person you connected to and you will always wonder if it could have worked .

@peridito

It's not too late for you, either!

My mum felt like you, in her 70s, and that was nearly 20 years ago now. 😣

I can't get through a day without thinking how I wish I'd helped her take action back then. Now she is (I hate to say this because he's my dad and I love him) stuck with someone who not only treats her badly, but is losing his marbles and comes out with all kinds of incoherent nonsense, some of it vulgar and nasty.

Go on, you can do it. Let's make this thread a "two for the price of one"! 😃

Hello all! You continue to bowl me over with your generosity in taking the time to respond so thoughtfully and insightfully, so thank you again, I so appreciate your support.

@Cavagirl and @I0NA, you're both absolutely right about me taking responsibility for his emotions, I could hear myself doing it and just couldn't stop! It must be linked in some way to trying to diffuse any potential bad moods that might be heading my way in the past, if I didn't manage to cheer him up. I discussed it in my therapy session this morning, and actually had an opportunity to exercise a change straight after - unfortunately my husband overheard some of the session and it upset him. I said I was sorry what he heard was upsetting to him, and then just left him to it. Previously I would have been all over him trying to take back whatever he heard or make sure he was in a happier place before I left him...so, progress maybe?! All undone later as I went to check on him as he sounded a bit less than friendly in a brief discussion and it made me anxious 😬 but I've got the awareness now and know what I need to do!

As to the purpose of the counselling, I think @KatySun summarised it nicely:

either it will work and bring something to the situation which changes the dynamic of the relationship and allows you to move forward in a healthy way or if it does not work, the counsellor will bring you both to this realisation.

I think I just need some support in guiding us through this process, wherever it may take us.

Thank you all though for the words of warning around couples counselling - I totally appreciate what you're saying and will be on the lookout for it. I hesitate to give my husband the benefit of the doubt now but I do think he is going to it with an open mind and no intentions at all to manipulate the situation.

@Whatdirection thank you for your thoughtful message. The quote from Nicole LePera really resonated with me, as it articulated far better than I can how I've been feeling about this - I do think my affair almost woke me up and did serve as a catalyst to force me to reevaluate everything about my relationship. I want so much more than what it offered even when things were ok. You are right that the affair was reactive, but I'm really conscious of saying anything that feels like I'm minimising or excusing it to my husband.

Is this how you want to spend your one precious life?

😫 I do wish I could fast forward a few years and be able to look back and advise myself on what to do now. I imagine it will be very clear in a few years what path I should be taking for my own happiness, but as it is I'm lost in a fog!

@peridito thank you for your lovely words. I am so sorry that you are in such an unhappy situation yourself. Is there no way that you could find a way to get to a happier place? 70 is still young!! Don't waste any more years 

Finally, @Alcemeg, you continue to really challenge me on my own thought patterns in such an insightful way!

You are so used to keeping a tight rein on your own feelings and expectations that you automatically self-censor any that don't fit in with his needs. This is a process I am very familiar with from my own past experience. It's what makes this kind of trap so difficult to get out of.

So, so true. And I think this is part of the reason as to why I'm struggling to really unravel my feelings now, and certainly why I struggle to express any of these feelings to my husband. It almost feels like when I'm with him having a difficult conversation I'm completely devoid of emotion at times. A constant source of frustration for him when he is trying to connect!!

It's not just the lack of proper love, not just the absence of something important... but the presence of something that undermines and erodes you.

Also very true. I think my indecision is because that eroding and undermining behaviour seems to have gone, at least for now and with the promise of that being the case forever. Which takes me back to, maybe being content despite lack of real love should/could be enough for me?

Who is it you're afraid might hear your thoughts? Him? Your mum? God? You?

To be fair, I am pretty paranoid about him finding this thread somehow 😆

Wtf was he doing, "overhearing" some of your councelling session? That sounds like deliberate eavesdropping, to me.

Oh no it wasn't, usually I tell him when it's happening and he stays in his office with music on - I didn't warn him this time and he just heard a brief moment when he was walking upstairs - he did admit to and apologise for lingering for a minute though once he'd realised!