I need to canvass opinions on a delicate matter

[MyBug]

I have name changed for this.
I have been with DP for 2.5 years. He is a lovely caring man and I want to stay with him.

The issue is the many not so great aspects of our sex life, but there's one that I really need opinions on. I genuinely need to know if I am reasonable feeling upset about it or whether I need to give my head a wobble.
I've sat on this for a few days but just keep going round in circles.
At the weekend we were DTD and when I climaxed DP was kissing me quite passionately. At first I thought that it was lovely, a way of connecting more with me in the moment. Then I realised that he was in fact trying to stop me expressing myself vocally. He was kissing me so that I did not make noise.
I felt really shocked and talked with him about it afterwards. He said that he thought it was wonderful that I was really enjoying myself but he didn't want the neighbours knowing our business, so basically could I be quieter. The bed is right over the other side from the partition wall btw in a decent sized room.
I don't think I am that loud tbh. We are not talking middle of the night here, next to their bedroom. The partition wall is a stairway wall and the sex I am talking about happens late mornings at the weekend. (that's another issue all by itself). No-one else is in his house.

Now I feel ashamed and sad. I have told him that I can't enjoy sex if I am worrying about making too much noise,( finally after years of having kids and teens in the house I don't have to be quiet) that I won't be able to express myself fully and that the chances are I simply won't be able to relax enough to cum /easily/ if at all anymore.
I felt silenced.
I would really like views on this. Am I right to feel sad or am I being really selfish by not considering his views on the neighbours?
Has anyone else been in or is in the same kind of position? How have you resolved things?

[quote MyBug]@SparklingStars10 at points in this thread you will find I said he IS caring because he really is. His attitude to my sexual satisfaction is at odds with the rest of his personality.
You will find I also answered the one about how I manage to orgasm at all.
All the info is there.[/quote]
Is that how you talk to him?
I am all for female sexuality, but if someone spoke to me like that or said "It is my right to have an orgasm, I have already made that clear" I would probably be a bit put of tbh.

put off

@brainlikepastry I think OP is just letting off steam/expressing her feelings in what she thinks is a space where she finally can.

@MyBug I just looked at your OP and saw you've only been with Mr.Incompetent 2.5 years. That isn't all that long really. If he's lovely in all other respects, he could make a nice friend.

I have been close many times to asking him he is deliberately not doing what I have asked him to do. I will be far more assertive next time. In fact the chances are I will simply stop the whole shebang and go and do something more productive
Can you not see that by this point you are both sexually incompatible?

If any romantic partner of mine was trying to make out I was repressed or wrong for not wanting to engage in sex their way, and getting moody over not getting their way in bed it would be a huge red flag to me.
You're making out like there's something wrong with him and he is deliberately not doing things you want, but the bottom line is that nobody (man or woman) has to engage in sex acts and sex locations that they don't want to. There's no ifs, no buts. If a partner decides to be be assertive and keep pushing in the hope their partner gives in and says 'oh fine', then that's not getting consent. It's nagging someone in the hope they give in. It's not ok behaviour in a relationship.

You don't have to put up with an unsatisfying sex life, but the solution is to walk away and find someone you are compatible with, not nag at your partner to hope he gives in.

@LolaSmiles I do think he is deliberately not doing things that will work for me. We are not talking whips and chains here. Just here is my clitoris it’s not on the side of my leg or vulva. It would as ridiculous as me expecting him to climax with any contact with his penis. Possible many but pretty unlikely.
If you’re going to enjoy putting your penis in a woman’s vagina and having a jolly good time then it’s a matter of respect to ensure that she also has a good time and to find out how to give her one.
He would be devastated if I ended it.

If it’s bothering you now, how much more will it bother you years from now?

Sounds like he may be relieved to have these expectations lifted from him if he is so ignorant/fearful/lazy/incompetent.

If you’re going to enjoy putting your penis in a woman’s vagina and having a jolly good time then it’s a matter of respect to ensure that she also has a good time and to find out how to give her one

Absolutely OP. Its absurd that some posters are trying to reframe his blatant sexual selfishness as him legitimately asserting his sexual boundaries. He is just selfish and unmotivated by your sexual pleasure. Its a tale as old as time!

@SouthernBounce

If it’s bothering you now, how much more will it bother you years from now?

Sounds like he may be relieved to have these expectations lifted from him if he is so ignorant/fearful/lazy/incompetent.

Not really cos then he won’t get any sex will he?

MyBug
Things like that are more problematic than the issues originally mentioned.
The point is still the same though. You are sexually incompatible, and right now you're in an unfulfilled relationship.
Him being upset if you ended it isn't a reason to stay in a relationship.

So either you decide to remain in the relationship and continue to have conflict over sex, or you leave and find some who is better in bed.

Absolutely OP. Its absurd that some posters are trying to reframe his blatant sexual selfishness as him legitimately asserting his sexual boundaries
Because some of the issues up thread were about compatibility, having different approaches to noise in the bedroom, not wanting to have sex in different rooms, and lots of armchair diagnosing that he is apparently sexually repressed.

I've already said the OP doesn't have to tolerate a shit, unsatisfying sex life.

I just question whether endlessly arguing about sex makes for a happy relationship, and whether nagging a romantic partner to do things in the bedroom is reasonable. Selfish or not, if he doesn't want to do things in the bedroom then that is 100% his right. It doesn't mean someone else has to remain in the relationship with him, or continue to sleep with him.

Why flog a dead horse? They're not compatible. The OP is understandably unhappy with their sex life. Surely it's better to call it a day and find someone who is offering a sexually fulfilling relationship?

Having read all your responses, @MyBug, your partner seems ambivalent at best about your sexual pleasure. He seems barely interested slash embarrassed about it. And that’s a problem.
Like you I had a horrible relationship in my post, and then went into a new relationship that was kind but also, somehow dead? My therapist said this was a known pattern - intense and painful relationship, followed by a bland and harmless relationship.
I’m with someone now who does love me and respects me and also enjoys sex with me, and gets off on my enjoyment. I can highly recommend it.

Not really cos then he won’t get any sex will he?

Not with you, but there are other women out there. And as you’re incompatible it is likely you’ll both go on to meet other people. Let’s face it the relationship is not going to last. Neither of you are happy with the sexual side and it shouldn’t be this problematic so early on.

@LolaSmiles

Your post above framed things in terms of 'nagging' (really sexist term used against women who try to assert their expectations of men across a range of domains), moody (another sexist term used predominantly against women who are unhappy with how their partners treat them) and that it is bad to make him out as 'wrong' to not want to engage in a sex act her way (in this case expecting him to learn how to stimulate her clitoris even though he gets to stimulate his penis three times a week by rubbing it against her vaginal walls).

Women and girls often find it hard to assert their sexual needs against selfish men, and often have unsatisfactory sex lives as a result - heterosexual women are far less likely to orgasm when having sex with a partner than any other group. Its deeply unhelpful to use the sexist and shaming language you did when a women has the self esteem to assert the right to her pleasure too when having sex with her partner.

I understand your other points though and I agree that there is no point trying to get this man to up his game.

Bluntness100
Exactly what you've said.

He isn't entitled to sex. Nobody is.
Life is too short to waste time on a relationship with someone who is totally incompatible in the bedroom.

Lots of people are talking about the problem here being one of incompatibility.

It just makes me wonder exactly what type of woman is sexually compatible with a man who wants frequent sex but is unmotivated and uninterested in her sexual pleasure?

@bugontree

Lots of people are talking about the problem here being one of incompatibility.

It just makes me wonder exactly what type of woman is sexually compatible with a man who wants frequent sex but is unmotivated and uninterested in her sexual pleasure?

To be fair some women like sex in the bedroom in a limited number of positions, don’t like a lot of foreplay or oral, so it’s hugely possible he meets someone who has the same sexual desires as him, and same for the op she could meet someone who likes to shag all over the house ans moans so loudly the neighbours might hear when he orgasms. Each to their own really.

bugontree
I talk about men nagging as well, and moody isn't linked to women (at least not in my area, it's used round here like a teenager throwing a strop).

The later issues that have come out are hugely more problematic than the earlier ones, which were about compatibility.

I don't believe that discussions about set should involve any party nagging or being moody. I say the same on threads where whiny men are going on at the women in their lives and sulking over sex.

Either he wants to engage in the sort of sexual relationship that satisfies the OP, or he doesn't. It's a waste of time continuing a relationship where the sex side is dominated with conflict, plus I can't think of a bigger turn off than one party nagging and the other being ambivalent.

@Bluntness100 as we have seen the key problem here is one of his utter lack of interest in her pleasure. As usual, the presenting problem is just the face side of a much deeper problem. He just isn't bothered by her pleasure; that's why he can't be arsed with the other stuff. It doesn't really matter what the other stuff is. He just can't be arsed with doing something to please her. OP has been forced, by his uninterested ineptitude, to literally as made it as easy as she can for him. All his has to do is keep the vibrator on the spot she tells him to, AND HE CAN'T EVEN MANAGE THAT. Let that sink in.

So no, this isn't an issue of 'compatibility'. Its not a matter of different 'preferences'. It's just a boringly familiar story of a heterosexual man who is not interested in his partner's sexual satisfaction.

So that's why I was illustrating this with the point of what woman is compatible with a man who wants frequent sex but has no interest in her satisfaction? There is no such woman. He may get another lonely woman to be his partner, and she will put up with crap sex as he is 'nice'. But they won't be compatible. She'll just be having crap sex.

Do you think he may be one of those men who believes the only right and sexy way a woman should orgasm is through penetrative sex alone? In which case, anything you say contradicting that may make him feel resentful and emasculated... which would explain where all the resistance is coming from.

If that’s the case, I cannot imagine a bigger turn off in the world.

In his defence there is no way I'd be comfortable having sex if I thought the neighbour could hear us and were 'talking' about us even though the logical part of my brain knows they wouldn't care less but it would totally kill my buzz if either of us were 'loud'
Fundamentally though ye appear to be totally sexually incompatible. Can you live with long term and accept it. I'm not sure you'll be able to do. If might be easier to just end it now.

@Bluntness100 as we have seen the key problem here is one of his utter lack of interest in her pleasure

I don’t disagree that cor the op this is they key problem. My point is that for him there are also problems, she wishes to do stuff he doesn’t or is uncomfortable with. She makes so much noise it makes him uncomfortable. So they are incompatible.

If a man posted that his partner wasn’t interested in his sexual pleasure, never gave him blow jobs and didn’t want to shag all over the house ans complained he made so much noise the neighbours might hear, but didn’t wish to make any noise when at her house, he’d would be handed his arse and told to respect her wishes ans that he was not entitled to blow Jobs, shagging all over the house and to respect her discomfort and keep the noise down.

The point is, yes from the ops perspective the key issue is he is not interested in her pleasure, from his perspective there are also issues, which is what led to her post, he’s told her to keep it down because she’s making him uncomfortable. She’s also repeatedly asking him to do stuff he doesn’t wish to do. She is not entitled to oral sex or anything else.

So they both have issues, it doesn’t work. And they are best of both seperating and finding someone who does like what they like.

My point is that for him there are also problems, she wishes to do stuff he doesn’t or is uncomfortable with. She makes so much noise it makes him uncomfortable

I suppose where we differ is that I don't think that his refusal is because he is uncomfortable with it, but because he has such a lack of interest in her pleasure, that he's not even motivated to try. He's not even motivated to hold a vibrator in place. I don't think his refusal is due to discomfort so much as lack of interest.

So no, this isn't an issue of 'compatibility'. Its not a matter of different 'preferences'. It's just a boringly familiar story of a heterosexual man who is not interested in his partner's sexual satisfaction.
But some of it IS different preferences in the bedroom, and then there's additional issues about not making much effort.

Even if we take the argument that everything about this man is fuelled with selfish indifference to female pleasure, then that's still an incompatibility issue. Fundamentally they are not interested in the same things.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be staying in a relationship with a man who didn't make me happy in the bedroom. I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time deciding it was time to be assertive about my wants, having regular conflict about sex, whilst not ending the relationship in case it hurts the poor man's feelings. That doesn't sound like 2 people who are compatible to me.

It sounds like the OP is danger of staying in the relationship, continuing to have sex with him, and eternally complaining that he doesn't please her in bed.

@bugontree

My point is that for him there are also problems, she wishes to do stuff he doesn’t or is uncomfortable with. She makes so much noise it makes him uncomfortable

I suppose where we differ is that I don't think that his refusal is because he is uncomfortable with it, but because he has such a lack of interest in her pleasure, that he's not even motivated to try. He's not even motivated to hold a vibrator in place. I don't think his refusal is due to discomfort so much as lack of interest.

As we don’t know him we cannot make that assumption. All we know is he is not wishing to do it. We can’t assume women don’t want to do something because they don’t like it, it makes them uncomfortable and that’s ok but if a man doesn’t wish to do something it’s because he’s a selfish lazy bastard.

Everyone has sexual likes and dislikes, there’s nothing wrong in him not like oral or sex toys any more than a woman not liking it and not wishing to anally stimulate her partner with the same toy. There’s nothing wrong with him being uncomfortable about shagging all over the house or with certain positions, just like there is nothing wrong with a woman being uncomfortable with it. Every single one of us has a right to our boundaries without being insulted or coerced. The op wants to moan so loudly the neighbours can hear, there is nothing wrong with this, and there is nothing wrong with him being uncomfortable.

Everyone has a right to say no to anything sexually they don’t wish to do. Men and women, every single one of us. Not just women. And if you’re with someone, male or female who doesn’t like the same stuff in bed as you do then move on if it’s important to you.

What you don’t do, is coerce, insult, or in any other way try to emotionally force them to behave sexually as you wish.

Bluntness100
Well said, and if someone isn't having a satisfying sex life or they consider their partner selfish in the bedroom then there is zero obligation for them to continue having sex with them. No man is entitled to sex, in fact nobody is entitled to sex. Nobody has to go through the motions of rubbish sex for them out of obligation to someone else. Nobody has to do more than they want to in the bedroom either.

There's also zero obligation to remain in an unfulfilling relationship either.

I do wonder why you're moaning loudly enough for neighbours to hear when hes apparently so crap in bed he doesn't know where your clitoris is. Why are you moaning like hes amazing then??