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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

434 replies

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:12

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

  • where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
  • if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
  • we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

OP posts:
Reallybadidea · 27/03/2021 09:24

I think your DH has been so shafted by all of this that you should do whatever he wants to do. Edinburgh sounds more or less ideal for everyone except you. I think perhaps you're going to have to suck up the disadvantages of that location for a bit to let him get back on an even keel.

makesIlaugh · 27/03/2021 09:24

I think you sound very clear-sighted, and I'm really glad your relationship with DH has stayed ok throughout this. I feel very sorry for him. Your mum hasn't behaved well here*
*
I totally agree with this. Whatever you decide (and I have no suggestions, sorry) it is amazingly refreshing to see two people who seem to understand the others point of view, instead of being totally selfish.

Nanny0gg · 27/03/2021 09:30

If there's one type of firm not to work for, it's a family firm that is run in an 'idiosyncratic' way. You're on a hiding to nothing trying to work in a 'normal' way there. It's their way or no way.

Robintakeover · 27/03/2021 09:31

OP - I think you need to prioritise your husband and children over your parents , they don’t sound like they’ve behaved well. Your husband needs to give some thought to alternative careers with some coaching if necessary and you need to be flexible on location as a team . It doesn’t need to be Edinburgh or where you are now or Birmingham .

HermioneGrangersHair · 27/03/2021 09:31

I don’t agree it’s a DH problem.

It’s more that they are completely enmeshed in your life. You moved to live near them “ they are almost obsessed” is what stood out for me in the first post. You have basically ( and maybe your sibling as well) delivered them the perfect set up that they are ruling over. I assume at Christmas and the like they decide what happens and you all get in line.

You are a family with your DH - and just because you get child care from them you have put up with this. Sorry no, I think it’s time you moved away to be a family on your own. That’s what many of us have had to do and it works with child care, whether that is nursery, au pair or nanny. You can make this happen around your career I am sure, just broaden out your mind to all the lovely places you could relocate to which would suit both of you.

I think the argument about the staycation is a bit strange actually, he wanted 3 weeks for you as a family and you didn’t, you should have told him when you called in on your parents as you gave your mum the PERFECT opportunity to criticise him. The fact she told her friend about it ? That’s the time you found out, no doubt that all her friends are keyed into your life and what ‘she’ thinks of it. I’m sure the narrative is very much “ they need us......they have careers and if it weren’t for us, those poor children would etc....”.
I bet when it comes to it they will be deciding which school your DC l go to ( closer to them) what happens in the holidays ( go to them) etc

For the sake of your family and relationship you need to cut the strings once and for all.

Mylovelyhorsee · 27/03/2021 09:35

Totally shit situation, if you’re the main breadwinner it doesn’t make sense for you to move to Edinburgh unfortunately, I’d say he has to try and get a job in the smaller hub and commute 1.5hrs. Or think really hard is he just cutting of his nose to spite his face, he thinks the new role sounds exciting. Could he really not take it?

RandomMess · 27/03/2021 09:35

I think when we move away from our family, have DC we look back to our parents/families with rose tinted glasses. We don't realise that our parents are likely to treat us like we are children rather than adults.

There are lots of subtle red flags about the parents - DOTE on the DC, not actually daring to reduce using them for childcare etc.

You've only been back 4 years and the last 18 months have been horrendous and it was probably in decline before then.

Your parents what you dependent on them so they can pull your strings.

If your DH is at home now then for a start stop ridiculous 45 minute drop off to the grandparents for childcare you don't need. Sure they can still go once per week but just reduce contact. You need to reinforce your nuclear family in readiness for moving away.

HermioneGrangersHair · 27/03/2021 09:36

This set up also, sort of, reminds me of my DB and his wife. She is an only child, and their lives and the life of their Dc is completely intertwined with her parents. Every birthday, holiday , Easter , Christmas is spent with them. They decided on which (state not private) schools were best for the grandchildren . Even when the family went away in this country her mum ‘visited’ them. It’s all rosy on the surface and I’m sure they love each other ( there are no work ties) but it’s all a bit too much...... if they didn’t toe the line I think it would be very different!

Inthevirtualwaitingroom · 27/03/2021 09:36

your relationship with your dm can be salvaged if you move away, absence makes the hard grow fonder.

be your own family unit. give your dh some pride

NoSquirrels · 27/03/2021 09:37

How old are your DC, OP? Sorry if I’ve missed it. They sound really young still, but as soon as they’re at school things will change again - in terms of childcare, needing a parent around etc.

To live where you currently are, one adult needs to have a flexible job that allows for childcare and transport (rural life) in the long-term.

You’ve jointly decided this is your DH. The job he did have to allow for this is gone.

Your DH now wants a career again, not a job or a project. He doesn’t sound suited to running his own business so that’s out.

So you will either need a support network who can help you with the flexible childcare and transport while your DH works away (like you do, so both parents not around as much) or you will need to move somewhere that long-term does not present the practical difficulties of rural living to make this possible.

Your support network (your parents) cannot and will not offer this to you. They’re not going to support your DH in working away from home and if they did they’re going to make sure everyone knows how selfish he is.

Stop factoring them into decisions from this point onwards. They are literally irrelevant to what you both do next. A solid grandparent relationship is perfectly possible long-distance and you’re not obligated to either the children or your parents to facilitate their relationship over and above you and your DH’s relationship- and that is of primary importance.

You want to keep working at your job.
Your DH wants to get back into a career job. He’s only been out 4 years and it’s not impossible.

You need to move somewhere that is convenient for your work, offers opportunities for him, has easy reliable childcare options and is a nice area to live in long-term.

Take all the emotion about your parents behaviour or wishes out of it. Where would you have moved from Birmingham if you’d had no family ties at all?

ElleDubloo · 27/03/2021 09:37

I vote that he sets up his own business.

  • not a direct rival to your mum’s business, if you want to recover the relationship eventually, but something similar enough that he can use his 4 years experience. Sounds like he’s got a very different style to your mum but he’d be very good at it in a different way.

Either that, or see if you can have a heart-to-heart with your parents and get them to see things from your perspective. Explain that if she wants to give up the business then changes are inevitable. The business is her baby, but she can’t hold onto it forever.

IloveJKRowling · 27/03/2021 09:41

Wow OP.

I think it's clear you do need to prioritise your job, it would be utterly crazy to up sticks and give that up (or make your life so difficult with commutes etc that it could affect your performance) on a 'maybe' for your DH.

It sucks for him - I'm in his position, I'm the lower earner, have moved around for my spouse. It does suck, but at the end of the day you have to do what is best for family security and finances if the relationship is good between you. It's very hard to have children and both have glittering careers that earn a lot and you're both incredibly happy with. Some manage it but I'd think it's the minority. Generally speaking it's the woman in your DH's position and no-one gives a second thought to Mums who sacrifice some element of their career for their spouse / security for / time with their family.

That said, although having on tap childcare must be amazing in many ways (we don't have any, so am jealous!) as your children get older they will definitely pick up on the tension between you and your parents if it's not resolved. I wouldn't cut off access of GP to their children but if DH isn't working, perhaps he could do more childcare and not rely on the GP for it - why would you continue with this while he's not working? As long as you do you are using their free labour and I'd say are beholden to them and I'm sure they will start commenting on the fact you're happy to receive free childcare but not see them otherwise if this is what happens. Given the situation, I think it might be best to extricate yourselves from this arrangement where they are providing a free service - whilst still allowing them to have the children at other times.

Perhaps if you extricate yourself from financial obligations with them in either direction (free childcare, jobs etc ) then you can rebuild the relationship - perhaps to something less closely entwined, but something that the adults can live with and which would benefit the children.

You mention buying another property - if you can afford that (lucky you!) then that seems a really good project for your DH.

Whilst I agree with PP that you need to create space in the relationship with your parents and you need to stop relying on them for unpaid childcare, you are 45 mins away already and moving seems a drastic option if you're otherwise happy where you are. 45 minutes away is far enough I'd say. Moving is unbelievably stressful.

Good luck OP.

Mumtothelittlefella · 27/03/2021 09:43

Your poor DH. And I say that as a child of a family run business and now running one myself. He needs your support now.

I think it’s simple; if you can find a new role in a different location, move and enable him to get his career back on track. The whole issue of being by family is just a red herring. You can visit and so can your parents, especially when your mum takes a step back which she never will (and I say this as my dad is 83 and has ‘retired’ twice but still won’t hand the reins over fully to my very capable brothers).

Time to put your family first and that doesn’t include your extended family’s feelings.

frogswimming · 27/03/2021 09:44

I think you shouldn't move because your career is going well where you are and your children do have the benefit of extended family. Especially as you can't transfer to Edinburgh. Better to have one person doing well in their job. The relationship with your mum will improve over time hopefully and there are other relatives too. Your dh is better off out of the business. I think you should focus on him getting into a career where you are. A sideways change or even total retrain. I would say he should go for career counselling and see how that works out and what opportunities present themselves.

Inthevirtualwaitingroom · 27/03/2021 09:50

you need to move away, stand on your own two feet,
they can do what they like with their money and their business, it is theirs.

billy1966 · 27/03/2021 09:52

OP,
Your use of the word 'domestic' is confusing.
Did you just have a normal discussion with your husband where he said he could do with a break from your parents during his three week holiday?
That is normal couples discussion.

By saying you had a 'domestic' it implies a huge row with screaming, shouting and possibly violence.
Vastly different. Is this the case?
Was it only a normal family discussion?

I believe you telling this to your mother, knowing how it could only upset her has triggered a lot of this.
I think YOU have very poor boundaries.
I think for YOU to have gone to your 'obsessed' mother and telling her your husband didn't want her near the home/children has created a huge shift in your parents plans.

Your boundaries are shocking.
What's more YOU have no idea what loyalty is to have done that.

Your mother sounds controlling and deeply unpleasant.

Yet you continue to deliver your children to her.

I feel very sorry for your husband.
I think he has tried his best and been used and spit out by your family.

If he was MY son I would be telling him to protect himself from you and your family.

This has caused him huge upset.

Your mother has also no doubt blackened his name.

Awful.

I think YOU sound very confident that you have done right by your husband but you have not.

Your parents and you have both behaved appallingly towards him.

I really think you should focus entirely on what he has given up, how hard he tried, how he has been treated and your betrayal of him and your marriage to your mother.

Him working for your mother meant the relationship was not a normal family one.

What on earth did you think would happen going over and telling her about a private conversation with your husband.

This has snowballed from your betrayal.

You are desperate to maintain relations with your family as your husband's career ls in tatters.

I think you need to completely re look at your roll in this.

Either your mother steps up and fixes this in a decent way, or you should be moving away from their toxicity.

I hope your husband is getting advice from his family to protect himself from the lot of you.
I would be definitely giving him that advice.

I don't mean to be harsh but am genuinely trying to give you the other side of this.

I appreciate it's difficult but you really need to look at it as it might appear looking in.

Best of luck.Flowers

dottiedodah · 27/03/2021 09:52

I think you are in a difficult position here for sure . There is a saying to never mix Business and pleasure and this seems true! A friend of mine had a similar situation and it didnt end well .Your Mum has done well with her Business to employ 70 staff and rely on post it notes /no Computer at all! However your DH must come first now I think .You are cutting yourself in two to accomodate your parents wishes .As above PP have said when DC are at School iys another ball game again.Why not have a look in Edinburgh for jobs /housing .Your DH has given up a lot here and you maybe need to prioritise his needs now .Your DM seems a strong woman and probably knows her own mind . Therefore doesnt want to hand her "baby"(The business)over to anyone! What about your Siblings can you talk to them and see what they think?

Doingitaloneandproud · 27/03/2021 09:55

I think you need to prioritise your own family, I feel sorry for your DH. Also unless I read wrong, you agreed not to see DP and then went behind his back to see your mum? If that's the case it's a really shitty move for you to do and I hope you apologised.
It comes across as your parents are way too involved and you don't seem to defend your husband. I get you say you've fallen out but you continue to let them see their grandchildren knowing how shitty they treat their father. Would you be happy if the roles were reversed and his family behaved like it?

missbridgerton · 27/03/2021 09:57

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that all of this started because your DH wasn't stepping up as they'd imagined. DH and I run our own business, and it's very like having your own child. It's incredibly hard to stand back and let other people do things in ways that you don't agree with or in ways that isn't working. So I get that they're removing your DH because for whatever reason that isn't working out. It's for this very reason that we never employ family, because it just doesn't work.

However, they do sound as if they are interfering a little bit too much on your family as a whole. I'm not sure what the answer is, but this must be a horrible situation to be in for you.

MitheringSunday · 27/03/2021 09:58

@Mumtothelittlefella

Your poor DH. And I say that as a child of a family run business and now running one myself. He needs your support now.

I think it’s simple; if you can find a new role in a different location, move and enable him to get his career back on track. The whole issue of being by family is just a red herring. You can visit and so can your parents, especially when your mum takes a step back which she never will (and I say this as my dad is 83 and has ‘retired’ twice but still won’t hand the reins over fully to my very capable brothers).

Time to put your family first and that doesn’t include your extended family’s feelings.

I couldn't agree less with the suggestion here to revolve everything around your dh's career revival - incl you giving up your breadwinner job Shock

IloveJKRowling made the point that it's usually the woman in his position and nobody ever thinks twice about that. I can't help wondering if some of the 'your poor dh, he must be facilitated to restart his career immediately, possibly even at the expense of yours' are drawing on traditional ideas of male roles.

I'm not saying your parents have been perfect in this - as I said in my previous post, you're caught right in the middle, trying to keep various big egos happy and I think it would be salutary for all involved if you proceeded on the basis of what genuinely works best all round for you (and the dc, of course).

Bluntness100 · 27/03/2021 10:04

I couldn't agree less with the suggestion here to revolve everything around your dh's career revival - incl you giving up your breadwinner job

Me neither. I’m quite agog anyone would suggest she gives up her security for a man who has never actually been successful anywhere. There’s no way he’d habe been driving to give up his previous job to work for her parents if he was the star he was making out he was.

IloveJKRowling · 27/03/2021 10:05

What does your DH think is best for the family, OP? Not what he'd ideally want in a career, but what can he see working for all of you given the childcare obligations and your job?

Is he interested in the new property / DIY / Airbnb idea?

And I do think you need to consider his health - if it was affecting his health being in a sit down at the computer all day role then realistically is that something either of you would want him to go back to?

I'd completely take the Edinburgh option off the table unless it can be made to work for your career.

I'd say that you don't have to see your family at all if you live 45 mins away. Plenty of people I know live that far from family and barely ever see them.

RandomMess · 27/03/2021 10:06

I think your DH needs to accept that because of his health he cannot go back to the job he did before and move to Edinburgh isn't an option because of your career.

He needs career coaching to find an option that will work for him long term. surely your eldest will start school soon too?

Where are your local friends in this is there even time for them with the demands from your job and family? Sometimes weekends visiting each other is what is great rather than living locally.

It seems like it's taken the fall out for you to actually leave your parents and cleave to your DH.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 27/03/2021 10:08

I do feel that your mother made a disasterous mistake in offering your husband a job, without thinking through the consequenses of what would happen if it did not work out.
If your husband wasn't suited to the role then perhaps she has made the right business decision removing him and it can't have been taken lightly knowing that it may jeapordise the relationship with you.

Gemma2019 · 27/03/2021 10:08

It doesn't sound like a great situation but maybe your mum genuinely did hope that she would be able to hand over the business to your DH in the future but he just hasn't performed as well as they had hoped or expected. You said yourself he isn't focused on staff or staff welfare, he works on a list basis so if he has 10 items on his list he thinks that's all there is to do etc etc. There is probably a lot more, and that combined with his health condition and working his hours to fit around the kids and your job doesn't exactly make him sound like the most reliable or dynamic employee to take over a business. Your mum probably hoped that he would develop her work ethic and passion for the business, and is probably as disappointed as you are that it hasn't worked out.

You saying that your DH can't travel 1 hour 15 to work as you need him for the kids or pick ups isn't right - just pay for childcare like everyone else or get a live in nanny. Move away far enough so you can both commute to work but can still drive to see family and friends at weekends.

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