What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

[AnonymousMamaof2]

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

• where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
• if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
• we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

@Marchitectmummy

So I don't agree with the majority on this, I think your husband is the issue.

Your parents have invited him into the business not to help them but to help you and your husband. You said yourself he didn't have the skills the business required and thdn 4 years on still appears to lack the skills. As a senior position in thd business to carry dead wood is hard. What's even harder for your parents is knowing that if they let that deadwood go it would directly harm their daughter and grandchildren. So they are trapped. They make a new role, tailored to the skills he does have and inadequate employee has the cheek to turn it down. Pretty annoying.

Then your parents dedicate 2.5 days a week, so half their week and half the time you need childcare for to saving you money and helping you all out again. That move puts more pressure on your parents and extends their day to cover the needs of their business.

Then the person they have been helping out, guiding and trying to keep employed decides to block thrm seeing the grandchildren and daughter at a relaxed time during a holiday, where I presume as you are in England you can't even do anything with thr holiday or go anywhere. Thus making it clear that their only role in grandchildren life is to be unpaid childcare.

Really, if I were your parents I would have had enough. But as someone said up thread blood is thicker thsn water so thry keep giving chances. Look after your parents you only get one set and yours are far from abusive they are breaking their backs to help you.

I agree with you.

Some of the replies on this thread are toxic nonsense. People need a serious reality check if they think anybody is entitled to just be given a business they are incapable of running.

What do posters get out of encouraging someone to needlessly damage a family relationship further? Disturbing.

I think you should go back to your old jobs in Birmingham. You dont actually have to live in Birmingham. There are loads of rural options around there. I live in a tiny village out in the countryside, but I can get to Birmingham in 20 mins on a train. You seem to be dismissing that option too easily.

Your poor husband.

That sounds really hard for all concerned, but especially for him. Agree with other posters that some career coaching would be helpful for him to clarify what his options are and explore what he wants to do next. If it helps, I’m a career coach - happy to chat privately about how a bit of career coaching can help in a situation like this.

The up side is that if you were to move away, your parents have established such a strong and loving bond with your kids that the relationship will endure. You have to do what’s right for you as a family unit.

You need to move away, childcare issues will dissipate as the years progress so it will only be short term.
By staying where you are now your parents, who are clearly selfish and cannot see their own part in what has happened, will view your actions /lack of action as support of what they have done. Even if you verbalise it differently.
I am of the camp that your parents are only happy to help when it is something they have suggested or are happy to do. It seems that compromise and collaboration do not feature in their dictionaries. This will only get worse in my opinion and playing such a big part in your children's lives when will these pressures come to bear on your kids??
Move away, find somewhere that suits you both enough/equally and give your marriage and children a chance away from the controlling behaviour of your parents.

DH knows that working with family is fraught with problems, just as doing business with friends isto be discouraged. He was pushing for the arrangement, in the view of OP. He extolled the virtues of leaving in rurally and in that area particularly. Presumably, he wanted a step down to a less pressured way of life, and thought working in a family business would be more cosy. The new job had no synergy with his old one. He knew that, and was happy to escape the corporate life, again, one can infer, because he didn't like it much.

Now that he is out of work, he isn't driving forward for new roles, he is hurt and feeling victimised at home. So over to OP to bring in the funds and keep the work potential going.

I suppose DM, whatever can be said of her style, is doing what she thinks is best for the business while reassuring OP and family they will give them an inheritance and be there for them. That's her style of fairness. And you can't tell a successful business person that they are completely wrong about which methods make for a successful business. It's an oxymoron.
I imagine DM wants to get in a manager so that any dealing with DH in his new role, if he takes it, can be managed by that person - and she will be removed from day-to-day managing him.

I also suppose she feels responsible for 70 livelihoods and 70 families, as well as suppliers, and feels that her business is not just a matter of ego and indulging her creativity.

A bit of assertiveness training for your DH would help too. No-one else seems to have really cared about what was right for him in this situation and he has just allowed himself to be dragged along into it.

I think it’s time for you and your husband to stand on your own two feet. You’ve had 4 years of his salary paid by your parents, plus free childcare. Time to move somewhere new and stand on your own two feet. You can pay for childcare, it’s what most people do.

My sympathies are with the parents here. They hand the DH an opportunity and he's screwed it up. That affects not only the parents, but also the livelihoods of 70 employees. They may also be thinking about your and the GCs eventual inheritance. They have probably agonised over this and come up with a well-intentioned restructure, which the DH takes the huff with. (OP seems to think it may have worked, were it not for the DH's ego).

DH is not in a bad place in career terms. He has 4 years of experience which he can "narrate" as he sees fit. He has to find a role that is a match for his skills. Whether that's in Birmingham, Edinburgh or elsewhere is a matter for the OP and the DH to work out what's best for the family.

Sorry if I missed it but what age are DC? It makes a difference. It's easier to move when they are younger, primary school age. Rural life is not great for teenagers, they can be isolated from friends, and need lifts everywhere. My suggestion would be to move to somewhere you can continue your work and where your DH may have an opportunity to get a reasonable if not especially high flying/well paid job. In the meantime he could be a SAHD.
The DC could visit grandparents occasional weekends, they will probably be less interested in GP contact as they get older.
I think you need to focus not on the here and now but realistically what is best for your immediate family (you, DH, DCs) in the next few years.
I have been in a vaguely similar situation when DH made redundant and made the move from rural area to urban area with good transport links and opportunities. It worked out OK, not perfect by a long way but OK.

Sounds like everything went to your DMs plan from day one.

You need away. And fast.

Be prepared for her to "discover" things about your DH to try and make you suspect him. And any opportunity for an argument.

She sounds like a raqing narcissist - and they don't take being challenged kindly.

I wouldn't just move away. I'd go NC. From reading your account it seems your parents have leap-frogged you and are now (as you say) doting on their grandchildren.

Hope it works out.

I feel sorry for your husband here OP. I think you need to put some distance and boundaries in with your parents, they seem very overbearing and hard work.

I think that while you are right to consider your husband's feelings in all this, and stay loyal to him, you should consider whether he actually is suited to, or deserves, some stellar career. I think he sounds like a bit of a MWM (mediocre white man). Which is good enough to achieve great seniority and rewards under certain conditions - a big corporate structure with loads of people to step in and pick up things he doesn't want to do, or is bad at; training and development baked in, and goodwill and encouragement for him to improve the bits he isn't naturally good at; tons of support at home (so not having to cover domestically for someone else's career demands).

But in the absence of these things, he's nothing special. You however, apparently, are, looking at the success you seem to have in your career.

I think you (collectively) have made a few mistakes that all centre around the assumption that your husband is excellent, and that he will definitely be stellar in anything, including a very particular family business run by someone with exacting and high standards. That was an incredibly risky move to make, unless you were prepared to see it as a "why not?" move with a potential outcome of failure and a plan B for that outcome - which you now have to make on the fly.

I'd suggest that the Plan B probably centres around you resolving these issues:

• Separate extended family life and work life, completely. Including relying on grandparents as standard for day to day childcare. then let those relationships heal in their own way in their own time.

• Your husband needs to make a plan for work based on his personal fulfillment and a role that facilitates your prime breadwinner role. Fulfillment doesn't necessarily mean being a corporate bigshot. You can respect him and he can respect himself if he does something else.

I also think you and your husband need to stand on your own two feet now. You need to sort childcare, he needs to get a job and you need to sort your lives up.

It doesn’t matter if anyone thinks your parents are at fault, or the issue is him because he performed poorly in the role. The bottom line is you’re both adults.

I personally would make it up with my parents, I’d not let my husband drive a wedge like this, he didn’t do a good job ans after four years he shouldn’t still have considered himself in “training”. No company would put up with this shit. Your family has more than supported you both.

However I’d urge you not to throw away your career for this man. Becayse what ever was going on in his last job that made him so keen to quit for this, and the poor performance you witnessed at your parents company is likely to be repeated and cause you and your kids financial issues.

I suspect that’s why you’re reticent to Chuck it in for him, because you suspect deep down he’s going to fuck it up again and cause you all significant financial problems.

I agree with the posters saying to move. I would rule out Edinburgh, due to the way you have described your MIL amd the fact you can't work there.

I would speak to your employer about whether your job is feasible if you move away, as so many people have said WFH/remotely is a real option now. Once you know how they feel, you'll know where you can base DH's job search.

Rather than walking back into his old job, could he do something a little different, eg an in-house role and he could do Corporate Governance qualifications at the same time, opening up his longer term options where he could use his wider business experience. There may be that possibility in the city you mention. You could move nearer there, so its commutable for you, but too far for your parents to do the childcare.

Your DM doesn’t like DH and it’s clear she barely tolerated him the past 4 years, finding fault co scantly and undermining his self confidence.

You need to move somewhere he can have a reasonable job, and earning power, and somewhere you can get a similar job. You just need to rethink the whole package. Your DCs will miss their GPS but they should have though of that before trying to wreck you marriage.

I agree with others, just move and tell your DH to see this as an opportunity. It can't have been easy for your parents seeing their business of 40yrs being managed by somebody who simply doesn't have the skills. He's not an empathetic or creative worker with any investment in the people there and your mother isn't ready for her business to be a systems-based, corporate affair.

Everybody needs a fresh start. Your DH needs a job he can actually do and you and your children need to be less dependent upon your parents. They are not faultless but you went into this with your eyes open. You invited them into your family in a big way and they made sacrifices too. It hasn't worked out for any of you. Time to move on.

Your DO can work in Edinburgh. He goes up the Monday morning and returns Friday or Thursday if he can work from home. Office based with is changing. People are unlikely to sit in offices for 50 hrs a week when some of it can be done at home. He rents a room Monday to Thursday.

What exactly is your DH ‘bad at’ in the job? Without specific details it’s hard to ascertain who’s right.
In any case you’ll have to face moving away - as theres no jobs for your DH. If not now then at least a year down the line.

What screams out from your op is that you haven't really cut the apron strings and you and your parents are overly-involved in each other's lives. I think you should definitely move away from your "deeply rural" home first of all. Deeply rural is awful for children growing up. You don't have to move hundreds of miles from your parents but just far enough that you aren't literally in each others pockets.

Your dh can re-train or maybe even start his own business?

I should think your mother was having to do a lot in the evenings etc because she's been giving up a lot of her usual working hours to look after your children. She sounds like an aquired taste type of person tbh op and I'm sure it would do all of you the world of good to put some space between you.

The first step is a career coach for your husband so he can identify the type of job he can actually do and enjoy.

Your mother has treated him appallingly. Did she ever put a development plan in place for him? Discuss how he was going to step into taking over the business? Or was this only ever a 'job in disguise' as a way to get you to move closer to her? I suspect the latter. It looks like her plan fell down when she decided she didn't actually like your husband very much. How dare she talk to friends about what to do with him? How unprofessional and undermining. He's not a child to be sorted out. The poor bloke has been offered a shitty made up job so your mother can keep you where she wants you.

Throwing him a crumb of a made-up new job is insulting - I don't blame him for walking away. But the job always was made-up wasn't it? And your husband has woken up and smelled the coffee. It looks like he was put in the corner and expected to be grateful.

And secondly, you need to move away. You're lucky your husband hasn't walked out already. He's desperately unhappy and you've gone behind his back and couldn't even follow the agreed plan of a 3-week break he asked for. And bad-mouthed him to boot. Shocking.

Support your husband - arrange paid childcare that supports him getting the job he chooses and move far, far away from your toxic mother. How can you not see how she's manipulating you?

I think for the good of the marriage and relations with DP, the best course now is to make a joke of the 'working for the he dreaded in-laws! ' scenario, and put a spin in things which sounds good for everyone: e.g., 'Mum's a tartar but is great at her business'. ' DH can't work with 20th century methods. Lol! Who could! ' Get used to spinning it this way, so it becomes the accepted version of events with friends and the wider family. DH will feel better if not feeling he has to fight to save face.And then focus on progressing with your career, OP , and don't compromise what will work there, as jobs need to be hung on to. Your OH may need some time to work out what will suit him best.

Have a quiet word with DM and say you want things to calm down between you all asap.

Look at schools. If there is one you like a few miles further away, then move. But at 45 minutes away from your DPs, you are not in each other's hair and can adjust your contact so that it is pleasant.

Can you consider jobs in other cities or towns? Instead of considering a city then finding a job, find the job and then move to that area. You need a fresh start away from family. Put your family first.

Sorry I've only read page 1, no time for more, but honestly OP your parents (well definitely your DM) sound scarily controlling. Don't tell me - they love to tell their friends at the golf club or wherever all about their amazing GC and how close they are, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure your kids are amazing, but your parents are narcissists. I mean, it's your DM's show, and you were rent-a-womb. Your poor DH has had his balls chopped off by her. It's really hard but you need to make a proper stand and put geographic distance between you and them. The kids will adapt, whatever your fears about that might be, and if you fear they won't you can bet your DM is counting in you to feel that way!

I don’t understand the money to grandchildren thing, surely they could also end up divorcing ?
This is difficult, as between the lines it sounds as though your DH did not put his all into the job, and wasn’t actually very good at it. I wonder if him taking the other role that may suit him better could restore good feeling between him and your Mum ?
I think you need to sit down and talk to your parents , they obviously adore you and your children, but they seem to not particularly like your DH. This may be down to them being controlling, as a pp said, but I also wonder if he doesn’t make much effort with them. I thought the thing about them not having the children was really unkind and selfish.
( As an aside, using the term “domestic” for an argument is pretty offensive. )
I think some sort of move is inevitable, both you and your DH need your careers, so if he does not want to try the alternative role at your Mum’s then you do need to move.
I would like to hear your Mum’s side of this too. I think she probably feels taken advantage of.

OP it seems that your mum has created a successful business if she has around 70 employees. This is an achievement.
Your DH was given a job in your mum's business but after 4 years he still has not got the hang of the job. I presume that mum's business is paying him a salary. I would not normally ask this but is his pay NMW or is it the going rate for the job he has been doing?
If it was me in your mum's position I would wonder why SIL has not got an understanding of the business after all this time. Also I would wonder if he just wants to collect money every month rather than actually work. You said he cant even concentrate to look on line for a new position. He does not want to go back to Birmingham he wants to go to Edinburgh but he is no longer capable of the corporate job he used to have in Birmingham. Who could know if he was going to be capable of a job in Edinburgh, he might not be and by that time you have given up your job, house childrens' places at school or nursery and the job at your mother's company.
I think this is more of a DH problem.