What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

[AnonymousMamaof2]

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

• where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
• if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
• we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

I think your DH needs to accept that because of his health he cannot go back to the job he did before and move to Edinburgh isn't an option because of your career

And working for her parents is more a charitable thing they are doing, for her sake.

Can he commute? I’d urge him to find a job, actually be successful at it, commute to it, also inc staying away during the week, and then if he succeeds you can all consider moving in a few years.

But until he’s managed to be successful at something, as In actually be successful and not just saying he is whilst trying to quit, then I’d be going no where and keeping my job.

It does sound like he’s got that syndrome. You know where they think they are awesome, entitled, a star, fully believe it of themselves but actually are a bit shit.

if he is not working now op there is no need for any child care
that should take some heat out of things for now.

reduce contact with your dm for all of you, while he licks his wounds.

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but the highly regular, frequent and structured nature of the childcare rings alarm bells for a grandparents rights child arrangements claim.

Most normal grandparents wouldnt bring such a claim under ordinary circumstances...but given the highly controlling nature of your parents - especially your mother - and what you have said of her "obsession" with the children, it seems more of a risk here.

I would move far with little to no notice in order to recent a prohibited steps order on the removal of the children from the area, and immediately put down work, school, childcare and child-social (e.g. playdates) roots in your new area.

You did well, OP, to get your independence before, it sounds like the mask has dropped and you're now seeing the family and your mother much more clearly. Don't give in.

What was your husband planning to do had he not worked for your parents?

The job didn't work & I can see why he would be dubious about taking another with them.

He needs to figure out what he wants to do & how to do it.

You (imo) need to pull away from your parents.

That doesn't have to be a move away.

It's so odd to me that you had an argumennt & told your mum!

Is any part of your lives kept from them??

Yes your second comment made it clearer how you are feeling about your mother right now. I know this is a bit like walking amongst landmines but I think it would be an idea to tell your mother that you are considering moving for OH work situation. Not him but you both otherwise she will resent him even more. Just I was thinking that she is manipulative and that this will make her act on her best behaviour and will help to recover some of the relationship. But it's a difficult one because I can see that it could backfire you'd have to be really nice about telling her like not blame her. Yeah tell your mum everything honestly from a you are supporting your husband standpoint. Tell her he is feeling a bit lost and needs a career so there's a strong possibility that we will have to relocate if he finds something.

So your husband wants the corporate job still hmm (I hate corporate myself haha). Okay so in this case could he travel and work in a city a few days a week before you move for say six month. Your can't just Jack in your job just like that when you are so comfortable there. What if he gets that new job and hates it. Tell your mum you might have to get a bit of childcare closer to home (on top of her help) and see if she compromises to come pick up closer.

I don't see what else you can possibly expect from your parents. They have provided endless childcare and support and handed your DH a decent position in their business. When it was clear that he wasn't up to scratch for that position they restructured the business to create what you yourself call an exciting new position more suited to his skills. If he is too short sighted and petulant to accept the position it's not their fault.

Like you acknowledge in the title, it is a mess and a rubbish situation .

You need to take control and change that.

Your parents are making you dependant on them thus giving them a great deal of control.
Change this and change your life for the better.

As someone else mentioned, why do you need child care at the moment if your OH isn’t working?

Life after Covid is different, it will never go back to how it was before, so what he had 4 years ago in Birmingham, possibly that’s not available to him as we are all working differently. Use this to your advantage. Can he do consultancy work from home. He needs to think out of the box and you need to stop making excuses.
There is opportunities out there. He just needs to find them.

Good luck!

You describe it as rubbish situation but is it really?

Put your troubles with parents to one side for a while and concentrate on your own little family. Without the confines of your current childcare arrangements I think you you will then see that you have a lot to build on for your future.

1. You are the main bread winner and still have your enjoyable and successful career. Protect that at all costs. That is the only thing that can’t change for now.
2. Your husband has a good cv. He has been working all this time, gaining a lot of experience. He has options including a job already offered which you think would be good for him. You also say he has other more practical skills. All that sounds very positive. Talk a lot about it and let him consider all his options until he’s sure which direction he wants to go in. Moving areas is what people do ...if that is what is you both decide is best, see it as an exciting new chapter for you all instead of it meaning you lose child-care and family and friends.
3. Your children have already built good relationships with their grandparents and cousins. So it’s not essential that they continue with quite the same high level of contact now those attachments are already formed. There are other ways to live where they can look forward to seeing each other for special occasions. And wouldn’t the other side of their family (your in laws) also like to build relationships ?
4. Your friends live close by but again, they are friends for life and having them, doesn’t mean you can’t make new, just as valuable, friendships in other places.
5. You are so used to your current in-house family child-care that it seems to have imprisoned you. Other forms of child care can also be very successful. So open up your heart to that a bit too. It shouldn't be seen as an insult or a deprivation to your parents just because you choose a good nursery or child-minder instead.
6. I can’t be sure but the way you talk about finances makes me think you could allow a little breathing space here, to allow yourselves time and space away from your parents to explore the opportunities in front of you both. With a bit of breathing space away from her, your relationship with your mum would no doubt heal and become far less toxic anyway.

Be brave, look at the positives, this covid world is still your oyster.
Good luck!

It sounds to me as if you and your husband have bent over backwards to go along with what your parents want. Would your children not have some family life in Edinburgh? Not to spite your parents, but to have a few years at least of allowing your husband to work again in his field and to allow relationships to settle down and perhaps normalise a bit? It might be you that needs to compromise on the job front in this location. One of you clearly has to.

Some very good advice from LAMPS1.

I've worked for somebody who "kept it all up here" (taps head) and rejected systems which would support others making decisions. I was expected to read his mind. He kept saying he wanted to work less but wouldn't step back to let others in. It is impossible to flourish in those circumstances.

You need to put your relationship with your mum on a different footing - more boundaries and no childcare. You can still do family lunches every couple of weeks, weekends away etc just less day to day involvement. Your children will still have a relationship with their cousins - you might just need to facilitate it yourself. Give your family a bit of space.

Could you move outside Birmingham not to Birmingham itself? Worcestershire is lovely. I used to live next door to someone who worked there but we loved in a lovely village with train links to Birmingham. Would you be able to commute each day?
Agree with others that your mother has behaved dreadfully. She sounds really controlling and selfish. You need to move away.
Is there any chance at all you could find some sort of work in Edinburgh? Maybe not in your current role but something else?

It sounds to me as if you and your husband have bent over backwards to go along with what your parents want.

I see it as the oppposite. The parents have bent over backwards to give him a job, are providing free child care to her, and are supporting them every which way. Yes they want something in return, ie him to perform adequately in the role and to see the grandkids out with child care duties, but it’s hardly the op and her husband bending over backwards when they’ve given him four years of doing a crap job, them picking up the slack and then creating a made up job jist so he had work and they had money.

What a tough situation!

I don’t think your parents have handled it well, but as someone who owns and runs a business with my DH, I do have some sympathy with your Mum. From what you’ve said it does not sound like your DH is suited to running that sort of business. It sounds like his skills may be better suited to detail-oriented roles rather than management. We have been in a similar position. No shame in not being suited for a role, but awkward for everyone.

So you are happy where you are, your children are happy, is your DH? (With the location, not the situation).
He has been offered a job in the family business that he would probably enjoy doing.
He refused job due to ...pride?
He wants another job that he doesn't have, can't do without uprooting the family and forcing you to leave yours - but he can't do this job anyway because of a health issue???

Am I missing something? I think the two best options are:

• You stay where you are, both have a frank conversation with your parents and see if you can mend bridges and really approach this new job with the right spirit

It that is not possible the Plan B -

• he retrains for something he can do either remotely or in the area you live and that doesn't negatively effect his health. Yes, everybody deserves to be happy at work but it isn't unusual for one partner to have to compromise somewhat. Usually that is the wife but you earn more, can't move to Scotland and like your job! Don't give that up!

Your parents, especially your mum, sound like a nightmare. I cannot see how you consider staying for the support when that support is so toxic. This hasn't done your DH's career or MH any good whatsoever. You have enabled your parents by telling your parents personal info about your relationship that she has then used against you and sneaking around to take the kids to see grandma is not supportive of your husband whilst on an enforced month off.

Your parents are clearly very controlling and manipulative. It is of course their decision to leave inheritance to who they want but to write out their children due to fear of divorce is madness. She may leave it to the grand children but what happens when she tries to manipulate them? Will they feel the need to comply just so they don't get written out?

From everything you have said, I think that you are better off paying for childcare, making new friends, finding your support network, putting your married relationship and careers before your parents manipulative wishes and moving away. There are plenty of lovely areas within commutable distance of Birmingham (I know as I have done this commute myself).

Edinburgh doesn't sound like an option as you've said his mum can be hard work too. Please don't go from the frying pan to the fire.

I wish you luck and please look after your husband, I feel for him and the effects this has had on him.

Bluntness Her parents have managed him out of a role which they didn't really give him their full support for. It sound like they expected to hand the business over in the future without letting go. Impossible.

OP, if your DH isn't working at the mo, then your parents don't need to give the childcare they did. He can have the kids while you are away.
Could he do some freelance work that fitted in around your business trips? Your kids may enjoy being with their GP, but they need their Dad to be happy too.

My sister's husband is terrible at maintaining jobs. One of the reasons is he's just crap with people and reading how he's actually performing. Tbh I find ur hard to believe any of this a shock to your husband. There were obviously signs it wasn't working after sya a yera. So he need sto take some responsibility for not recognising this and making a plan to move on.. So I think you need to put some responsibility on him.

I’ve only caught up on your posts OP and not rtft. I’ve nothing useful to say except that family businesses are a nightmare. When you work in them as a child the boundary between dad and boss gets very blurry, not just at work but at home too. I’m an in-law and I’ve refused point blank to ever work in the company. Even at that distance my pils don’t understand normal relationships and boundaries. It’s subtle and insidious and very damaging. Sil’s dh works for the company and it’s like watching a slow motion train wreck.

Dh doesn’t have the perspective to see what I’m seeing because it’s his normal.

So with my bias, my instincts are to move away and prioritise your nuclear family. Your dps won’t be the first to have to travel to see their dgc and your dc will benefit more from a harmonious family unit.

I asked early in the thread about the “domestic” and you’ve answered that. That’s exactly the sort of tricky situation that arises in family business.

When dh and I hang out with his dsis, her dh is entertaining his boss and I’m the spare wheel in business discussions. The normal rules don’t apply and it requires a lot more tact, understanding and flexibility than normal. That’s only a small example. I can completely understand your dh wanting a holiday, and completely understand your pov too. You wouldn’t have gone to visit his boss behind his back and gossiped about him, but visiting your dm and talking about the problem was inadvertently doing this.

The problem isn’t you, dh or your dm - it’s family business. Dh and sil are second generation owners and plan to sell the business rather than inflict it on their dc. I won’t even go into the nightmare years when dh took over from fil and what went on. If you have the option to move away from the madness, grab it and run!

You dp could sell their business to someone more suited to it, and retire well on the proceeds. And have a better relationship with you all as well.

But obviously, I’m very biased because of my own perspectives.

I actually agree with Bluntness. What stood out for me was that, yes, the parents may be a bit controlling and infuriating at not having proper systems etc, BUT the husband wanted to move there, the whole family upped sticks, the parents gave a him a job he's not been arsed to put his back into, and when it became clear he was never going to be able to run the business, they created a new role, which by the DH's own admission is better suited to his skill set...and the husband turned it down (even while he had nothing else to go to) and is now expecting the OP to give up her career and move AGAIN!
He also doesn't seem to be very motivated to find himself a new role he can do and not move-or rather he has decided they all need to move and won't try to find a role he can do from there.
Basically, OP has been rubbish at boundaries with her parents, but also DH is acting like a child. OP needs to put some ground rules in place with her parents and DH needs to grow the Hell up.
And why on earth would a woman with a successful career give it up for a man who is currently unemployed!?

You don't need to move. The less extra stress the better surely. If your DH can find a job he likes nearby great. Otherwise perhaps he just needs a small 'business' to give him self esteem / cover his blushes at relying on you financially. It doesn't sound as if he can take any more demands at present.

Letting property etc might do if you've got the capital / can get a buy to let.( He can always allow a Letting Agent to run it for him while he 'master minds' the whole project. )

Have you thought that perhaps your parents ( having spent 4 years in close proximity with him) know/suspect things about your DH that you don't - and that's the impulse behind setting up a family trust to protect their GC?

@Bluntness100 I agree with your views.
A good question would be that if the person in the role SIL was doing was not SIL would the parents have given a stranger 4 years to learn the job?

I would not give up OP's well paying occupation on the wimp of a man who does not look like he tried to fit into MIL's business.
The DM's business was changed to find a role for SIL 4 years ago and now they are changing again and in that change finding a role for SIL who admits the role is exciting but he does not want to do whatever that is.
There are people who after job loss have turned their hands to any form of employment. What makes this guy so special that he can refuse a job in these trying times?
Security for the OP and her DC is what is important. Families with children and a secure income can not go jumping into the unknown.
This looks like another case of parents trying to help adult children and the story gets re-invented as they are controlling.

BTW - The Golden Rule ( which your DH apparently has forgotten) Never give up your job / refuse the offer of one, until you've got another to go to.

You don't want to move away from your support network, but they can be built anywhere. Plenty of people don't have family, or don't have family nearby, but particularly when the kids start school there'll be the chance to build more support networks and friends wherever you are. Many of my friends have informal breakfast club arrangements with friends/neighbours with similar-aged children to help with parental commutes.

Better to build the one you want than be pulled apart by the one you're born with.

This looks like another case of parents trying to help adult children and the story gets re-invented as they are controlling.
Did they help, though? Or micromanage and set him up to fail. We don't know from this distance.

The 'working off a list' thing may not be bad. It's what I do, a checklist to make sure I don't forget anything. Surely everybody 'works off a list', the 'list' being their job description!