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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

434 replies

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:12

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

  • where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
  • if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
  • we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

OP posts:
GoWalkabout · 27/03/2021 07:52

I think you are going to realise that you have not been close with your parents but enmeshed and dancing to their tune.

Bridget83 · 27/03/2021 07:53

I think you need to start thinking what is best for you rather than your parents. You are very much 'they would want this, they would miss that'. Do what is right for you & your family. Your current set up is clearly becoming toxic and ruining your relationship (with parents) so something needs to change.
Your DH can look at city roles as many will be largely flexible and based at home in the future. It is definitely better for you all not to be working in the family business.
Your parents sound like wonderful grandparents but they're controlling your life a bit.

Thesheerrelief · 27/03/2021 07:53

As a start, you could drop down the time she looks after the children to one day a week. Take the control back. Tell her you don't think she should be working late so often so you've made other arrangements that will suit everyone better. Then move. Give your DC a shot at freedom from family toxicity.

Your DH was always set up to fail because your mother was never going to step back.

GoWalkabout · 27/03/2021 07:54

And the dynamic will affect your children eventually. Just test out whether you can make decisions they don't like without being punished.

BigGreen · 27/03/2021 07:55

If I was in your situation I'd be seeking a move closer to your existing job and somewhere that your DH has a good chance of finding work.

ThePoetsWife · 27/03/2021 07:55

Maybe its now a good time to get paid childcare or pay for wrap around care - that way you can continue your career, move jobs etc.

Your DC will be fine - and in fact I would be wary of allowing your parents so much influence over them, and of them picking up on their views of you and DH. The dynamics and obsession with them are not healthy.

Poorlykitten · 27/03/2021 07:56

Firstly, can your DH look at this as an opportunity to do something he really loves as a job? Turn a hobby or a dream in to a business? Secondly, I would move away. Put some distance between you and your parents. Childcare can be found anywhere and many people manage to facilitate/maintain a relationship between children and their grandparents from a distance. In fact it can be better for all and doesn’t mean the children will loose out necessarily. Arrange sleepovers and long weekends with them instead and take that time for you and DH. I think you need to disengage a little from this toxic situation, you are all too ‘close’ and some distance and forging a life of your own will be much more fulfilling and healthier for all.

Marchitectmummy · 27/03/2021 07:59

So I don't agree with the majority on this, I think your husband is the issue.

Your parents have invited him into the business not to help them but to help you and your husband. You said yourself he didn't have the skills the business required and thdn 4 years on still appears to lack the skills. As a senior position in thd business to carry dead wood is hard. What's even harder for your parents is knowing that if they let that deadwood go it would directly harm their daughter and grandchildren. So they are trapped. They make a new role, tailored to the skills he does have and inadequate employee has the cheek to turn it down. Pretty annoying.

Then your parents dedicate 2.5 days a week, so half their week and half the time you need childcare for to saving you money and helping you all out again. That move puts more pressure on your parents and extends their day to cover the needs of their business.

Then the person they have been helping out, guiding and trying to keep employed decides to block thrm seeing the grandchildren and daughter at a relaxed time during a holiday, where I presume as you are in England you can't even do anything with thr holiday or go anywhere. Thus making it clear that their only role in grandchildren life is to be unpaid childcare.

Really, if I were your parents I would have had enough. But as someone said up thread blood is thicker thsn water so thry keep giving chances. Look after your parents you only get one set and yours are far from abusive they are breaking their backs to help you.

Eleganz · 27/03/2021 08:03

Yeah I think that your DH and your mum's business was never a good fit and it just looked like a neat way to stack the boxes to justify a move that would have otherwise only suited you. Your mum has put her business ahead of everything else, but really after 40 years is that really that unexpected? It clearly wasn't working out but at least she didn't just make your husband redundant I suppose.

So, if you don't want to move, aren't struggling financially then this sounds like a great opportunity for DH to retrain and do some voluntary work, he should grab that opportunity with both hands. He sounds a bit rigid tbh, but if his role was something technical in the city then perhaps I understand that.

Otherwise you will have to bite the bullet and move to somewhere that actually works for your family.

astuz · 27/03/2021 08:04

I can see you're scared of moving away from family because of your experiences in Birmingham, but we've never lived near either set of parents, even though my Mum would have happily looked after my children 5 days a week if I had lived near her (no jobs for me or DH in her small town).

Just because Birmingham didn't work for you, lots of other places might. You need to find somewhere in the world (and I do literally mean the world) where you can do your job and your DH can do his. There's always childcare providers anywhere you go, so you don't even need to consider that at this stage.

Thesheerrelief · 27/03/2021 08:06

Sounds like firing DH was retaliation for him wanting staycation time to yourselves. Because of course what you and DH prefer is irrelevant

LoudestCat14 · 27/03/2021 08:06

They're also mega paranoid about divorce and a spouse being entitled to taking half.

This is the most telling line in all of your posts OP. Your parents think you and your DH will split up and I suspect that when you told your mum about the 'domestic' – FWIW, that was shitty behaviour going behind your DH's back after you had an agreement – they decided to get rid of him from the business by means of constructive dismissal so it lessened any claim he might have. I also suspect they think that because they're so entrenched in your life and have an obsessive hold on your children, you would choose them over your DH.

Time to prove them wrong by moving away. Your DH has sacrificed a lot for you to move to that area, including his self-esteem by the sounds of things, now you need to truly put him first.

MrHannigansCat · 27/03/2021 08:06

Career coach for your Dh. Then look everywhere, stop thinking you have to move near to family or friends. Lots of people move to new places and make it work and have childcare. Depending on the age of the children, wrap around, childminder, nanny, au-pair. It isn't that hard.

I am a trailing spouse and have left jobs, friends and family for Dh as he earns far more money than I ever could. We live an hour away from family just because where we are there are so many opportunities for Dh for work in the city/cities near us.

Also They're not supporting you, they're controlling you I completely agree that you are in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) your parents have made themselves essential in your eyes as childcare providers. Stop seeing them as resolving your childcare issues and see them as the controlling, manipulative people that they are.

Move. Career coach for Dh, look at a map, figure out the best options for work for both you and him.

Eleganz · 27/03/2021 08:07

@Marchitectmummy

So I don't agree with the majority on this, I think your husband is the issue.

Your parents have invited him into the business not to help them but to help you and your husband. You said yourself he didn't have the skills the business required and thdn 4 years on still appears to lack the skills. As a senior position in thd business to carry dead wood is hard. What's even harder for your parents is knowing that if they let that deadwood go it would directly harm their daughter and grandchildren. So they are trapped. They make a new role, tailored to the skills he does have and inadequate employee has the cheek to turn it down. Pretty annoying.

Then your parents dedicate 2.5 days a week, so half their week and half the time you need childcare for to saving you money and helping you all out again. That move puts more pressure on your parents and extends their day to cover the needs of their business.

Then the person they have been helping out, guiding and trying to keep employed decides to block thrm seeing the grandchildren and daughter at a relaxed time during a holiday, where I presume as you are in England you can't even do anything with thr holiday or go anywhere. Thus making it clear that their only role in grandchildren life is to be unpaid childcare.

Really, if I were your parents I would have had enough. But as someone said up thread blood is thicker thsn water so thry keep giving chances. Look after your parents you only get one set and yours are far from abusive they are breaking their backs to help you.

I kind of agree although the person they were helping out was the OP and not her husband. The job for him was just a way to make the move that suited her work out. Also, the childcare thing is not that simple as a one way arrangement. Many grandparents are desperate to be closer to their children and grandchildren and the pandemic has highlighted why (my mum and dad have not seen my children for months, my MIL is part of our support bubble).

The husband has actually been handed a great opportunity here to do something different and he needs to take it.

WaterBottle123 · 27/03/2021 08:08

[quote AnonymousMamaof2]@Phineyj
Agree re 1h15, we used to do the same ourselves daily. It's more the fact now that we need him around for definitely 2, sometimes might be 3 mornings and afternoons each week for nursery pick up when I'm working away those 2 days (8:30 drop off, 5:30 pick up). So a 1h15 commute isn't going to facilitate that and we don't know for sure that any new job will allow 2, sometimes 2, wfh days....
We need someone at "base" at least 2 days a week, the job with Mum obv allowed that[/quote]
Get a nanny for those 2 days?

SpiderinaWingMirror · 27/03/2021 08:10

It sounds like your dh needs to br prioritised in all this.
Why not look at some decent, professional career coaching? That would build up his confidence and enable him to be back in charge of his future.
There will be compromises to be made but professional help will enable him to think about where they might be.

sjfjsnfkdhsbd · 27/03/2021 08:11

Your husband is very clearly not cut out to run their business. He should have walked away himself.

If after 4 years and in the belief he was developing himself to take over he was still operating on a "list basis" where he wasn't able to think about anything he wasn't spoonfed, how could either of you not see how he would never be a suitable candidate to take over without the business collapsing? When management buyout a business it is because they have shown themselves capable of running it, not because they feel entitled to be given it.

He should have done the right thing and admitted he wasn't cut out for it and walked away instead of continuing because he felt entitled to just be gifted a business he wasn't capable of running! I mean, wow. No wonder your parents are upset.

How can you not see why this has caused your mum so much stress and worry? Would you hand over a valuable business (for free - businesses are normally sold because they're valuable assets) to someone who hadn't stepped up and was very clearly not cut out to run it? (Did you miss what happened to Bhs?!)

As for the "domestic" you think was private and she shouldn't have shared - it was about her son-in-law trying to stop her seeing her grandchildren! It was about her, it directly affected her. Why wouldn't she be upset and seek the support of her own friends? For you to punish her for that is cruel.

You complain that your parents aren't taking responsibility for what you think they've done wrong, but you seem blinded by "loyalty" to your husband as to your own failings.

As for your resentment about your parents wanting to pass wealth directly to their grandchildren - that is a very normal practice amongst business owners.

Aneley · 27/03/2021 08:12

OP, I may be running here against most views but from your posts and updates I am not sure it is all your DMs fault. Your DH definitely doesn't sound like he was well suited to take over a business. He could be a brilliant employee if he's dilligent and good finishing 'tasks on a list', but running a business requires keen observation, planning and being a self-starter - not waiting for someone else to tell you what to do. In that sense, I can see why that could end up in your parents restructuring the business and offering him a job more suited to his talents.

The second thing I noticed and I think is downplayed here is what your 'domestic' was about. Essentially, you told your mother that your DH didn't want her to spend time with your DCs for 3 weeks. Furthermore, you made it sound like you had to hide a visit to her from him. Why on Earth did you think this would not affect her relationship with your DH? Also, taking kids to see GM when you agreed (for whatever reason) you won't and not telling him about it is really not on.

Your posts definitely sound like you are trying very hard to 'stand by him' but only on your terms. While family support is nice when available and healthy - this particular one is already eating at your marriage and your DCs will feel that (if they didn't already).

Ok, you can't move outside specific jurisdiction for your job, he can't find job locally, you don't want to move back to Birmingham...well, I'm sure there are other commuter villages/towns around Birmingham with a shorter commuter time that would give you both a chance to achieve what you want to achieve (you to keep your current job, him to find a new one). Something has to give in and I think that in this situation it has to be the time your DC spend with your parents.

RandomMess · 27/03/2021 08:12

I've just reread the op again in light of those saying the DH is the issue and erm no. He was never going to succeed in that business because his PIL don't want him to - they want the business in their control as long as possible and then go to DGC the DH will always be an outsider.

gutful · 27/03/2021 08:15

Yeah because no woman on MN has ever posted about wanting a 3 week break from their MIL before Grin

Magnificentmug12 · 27/03/2021 08:17

I think your mums been a star! She has her own business that is successful and thought her son in law was going to come in firing on all cylinders, really absorb it and help grow the company more- instead what has happened is that he is actually not up to speed to take over even four years later- as he is a lost person and doesn’t do more than specifics, when you run a business you need to prop it up from all angles, not just ten daily tasks on a list!!

Your DH is right to step back, they nicely don’t think it’s working out and think his too important to sack so have handled it well leaving the ball in his court and parting on the best terms possible.

I don’t think it’s the end of the road for your DH, Loads of London jobs are about which are WFH so can be done anywhwre, he doesn’t need to move, he can do it if he puts a bit of effort into it!!

LizzieSiddal · 27/03/2021 08:17

Do not listen to those saying your DH is the issue here! It is your manipulative and controlling parents who are the issue.

MitheringSunday · 27/03/2021 08:18

My take on all this is to see you caught between your overbearing, neurotic (in the psychological sense) mother/parents and your dh's work underperformance (as someone who works for herself, albeit without employees, I have sympathy with your mother's protectiveness over the business and frustration at your dh) and fragile ego.

Tbh, if I had been your mother and you'd used the expression 'domestic' to me, I'd have been very worried indeed - you've clarified it wasn't what it sounds like, but i can't blame her too much for flipping there.

Your dh needs to be looking into WFH opportunities (if not now, when?) that only involve occasional travel, and you need to be thinking ahead, to when the dc are at school/have more of their own lives. How will that play out with your parents? You say there are cousins. Are there any older ones and how do those relationships work? I tend to think that a move to somewhere that works for your work primarily, dh's career secondarily and childcare is on your terms would be a good thing, but you (you!!!) may not decide that is best all round.

Cowbells · 27/03/2021 08:19

You need a breather and to think carefully about your next move. Currently you are major breadwinner and that has to be considered.

Your DH could think more positively about his break from corporate life - he now has double the skillset he had before: corporate and small business management. Together they could make him very attractive to a middling business wanting to expand and develop or a big corporation wanting to devolve into smaller specialist sections.

Forgive me, but your mother sounds like a control freak. I've met the type and they are bullies hiding behind their 'marvellous 200 miles an hour' persona. She has stampeded over both you and your husband and not taken responsibility for it. Now she's driven you away. She needs to pause and admit her part in this and make an effort to build bridges.

You sound like very flexible people - prepared to try new lifestyles as long as they work for you. Are you certain there wouldn't be excellent career prospects for you near or in Edinburgh? It's an important centre.

Comtesse · 27/03/2021 08:20

Family businesses and bringing the next generation in are frequently very very messy. No shame in that.

I would not put the children’s relationship with grandparents above the husband’s wishes though. He is obviously important in all this too. Sounds like he is in a bad way if he can’t sit down to job hunt. Maybe needs to really concentrate on that?

The current situation seems far too enmeshed. You don’t NEED family support to look after your children day to day - it might be nice but it isn’t essential. This should not be the constraining factor.

Talk talk talk with your husband. Do NOT share your thinking with other family right now - not necessarily to be trusted and you pair need to work it out.