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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

434 replies

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:12

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

  • where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
  • if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
  • we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

OP posts:
Alsohuman · 27/03/2021 11:12

@Gemma2019

I don't see what else you can possibly expect from your parents. They have provided endless childcare and support and handed your DH a decent position in their business. When it was clear that he wasn't up to scratch for that position they restructured the business to create what you yourself call an exciting new position more suited to his skills. If he is too short sighted and petulant to accept the position it's not their fault.
I’d love to hear OP’s mum’s side.
Redjumper1 · 27/03/2021 11:12

How did your DH not see that it wasn't working out? It suggests a lack of understanding. Between that and the lists he is clearly unsuited to being a business owner. He is probably more suited to a large corporation where he can use the fact he is an educated man to get ahead and delegate. Commute of 1hr 15 is no big deal. You need to get more childcare backup. Try put this behind you and put firmer boundaries in place with your parents. They are GMs not parents.

Branleuse · 27/03/2021 11:13

its super weird they want to put everything for the grandchildren in case you kids get divorced. What if the grandchildren marry and get divorced? Is it just because they dont like your partners?

Twoforthree · 27/03/2021 11:15

I don't think you've got a choice. You need to move away to keep both relationships. Otherwise you'll lose at least one.

MarieDelaere · 27/03/2021 11:16

So I've now read the whole thread - so many good posts - and I haven't got a clue what to think. So many different perspectives and possibilities.

UniversalAunt · 27/03/2021 11:20

Your DH has not wasted four years.
He has side stepped into a new sector, adapted, upskilled & run a thriving business.

Comparison is the thief of joy - particularly with rose tinted goggles at your peers. So much is up in the air at the moment, so many businesses are disrupted & some even destroyed. But new ventures will rise.

Right now is prolly a good time not to be over invested in a role, to be agile of thought & attitude, to be open to new possibilities.

Your OH has been dealt a body blow by your parents (don’t rate you, don’t want you, piss off) & he is feeling hurt & sore. But all is not lost.

There will be loads of folk looking for safer jobs right now, so trawling the professional ads right now. The competition will be fierce.

If your OH can take a deep breath, relax his assumptions, cut the comparisons, the silver lining in this situation will start to appear.

A business career coach is a great idea & positive step in a plan. He will benefit from an objective assessment of his skills, some support as he chews out the insult/injury so that he can spit the sorry sour mess out. There may be opportunities for him to upskill a bit to back into his sector at a higher level, maybe polish up his networks & certainly rewrite his Cv etc. Not many people at the moment can afford to not earn whilst they upskill &/or gain further accreditation, this is a good time to sidestep the apres lockdown recruitment shitstorm, & emerge Phoenix-like a little further on.

Who knows, he may set up on his own? He may join a competitors of yr parents’ business? 😉

UniversalAunt · 27/03/2021 11:24

If the childcare arrangements with your parents costs you time, money & emotional angst, then change the arrangements.

This would be common sense irrespective of the other stuff going on.

RosesAndHellebores · 27/03/2021 11:25

I too am seeing this through your parents' lens.
You and dh upped sticks from Birmingham to live near your parents and have their support
With two young dc you have turned into the main breadwinner and harder worker
Your DH was given a role in a family business he could have taken over but has never put his back into it or gone the extra mile
Meanwhile your mother provides free childcare and works into the evening on the days she does that
Your DH's career was already shot when you moved because his health meant he couldn't sit at a desk all day - therefore he has little hope of re-entering his former career.
An hour and a quarter commute each way is too inconvenient for him.
He would prefer and you can provide him with a BTL to tinker with.

I can imagine your parents are absolutely at the end of their tether with him. Watching their dd work her fingers to the bone whilst being ripped off by him. I think if I werenyour parents I'd be protecting my business (your inheritance) from him too.

To me it sounds, and I'm sorry to say it op, that you have saddled yourself with a hanger on and your parents can see right through him. He has a lost of jobs, say 10, and when they are done he feels his work is done. That is not the mindset of a motivated self starter or someone who could successfully run a business. When 10 jobs are done, you look for more useful things to do. Come now op - "his health condition meant he was having difficulty doing his old job because of sitting so long" that smacks to me of his previous employers were finding his attitude to work lacking and there were capability issues that conveniently drifted under ill-health.

Inthevirtualwaitingroom · 27/03/2021 11:30

@Branleuse

its super weird they want to put everything for the grandchildren in case you kids get divorced. What if the grandchildren marry and get divorced? Is it just because they dont like your partners?
i dont think it super weird. it is sensible, to make sure the grandchildren are provided for. plenty of older people are doing this.
PicsInRed · 27/03/2021 11:30

@Branleuse

its super weird they want to put everything for the grandchildren in case you kids get divorced. What if the grandchildren marry and get divorced? Is it just because they dont like your partners?
They say they will leave everything to the grandkids as the grandkids are presently young and manipulable - and it keeps the OP and sibling beholden to them. After all, it's one thing to choose to walk away from one's own inheritance, but it's much harder to make such a choice for your own children. The youth and dependence of the kids is why the OP's mother appears obsessed them - she receives unconditional admiration from them which feeds into her self belief (despite treating her employees harshly) that she is a lovely person (which is why she occasionally sends those same employees flowers - it's a big front for the public, a narrative of loveliness).

As the grandkids get older and develop their own opinions they too will see their grandmother's less smiley facade, and I would be concerned that she will have golden child(ren) and scapegoats, she will play them off against each other, and will actually be a dividing force within the 3rd generation of the family.

OP, the reality is that these sorts of small businesses are often sold by the owners to pay for a big, travelly retirement. It's unlikely to be passed down and I wouldn't waste your marriage, youth or your children's youth on any further thoughts of this business as an "inheritance".

Increscendo · 27/03/2021 11:32

I disagree with PP saying that your DH should have done better. I think you are right thinking that your DM had a way to do things, and it's almost impossible that others do things the way we would.

Also, although it is very important for kids to have a good relationship with GP, it is more important to have a good relationship with happy parents. IMHO you should fully support your DH, if not for him, for your DC. Your DH might grow bitter, and kids pick up everything, they are more clever than we think! So I wouldn't like my DC to spend so much time with people that don't like their DF, even if they were my own family.

I think it will be beneficial to your DH to find a job he likes and he feels useful in, that in return will be beneficial to your DC.

If I were you, I would move.

bumpertobumper · 27/03/2021 11:32

OP, I don't know if you're coming back to this thread, I imagine it's hard reading for you.
One question that come up for me is that the childcare is such an issue (and blocks your dh from having a long commute) because you have to be away for one night a week. Why can you move nearer to where you have to go so you don't have to?

And the benefits of living in a urban/suburban area is that when your children start school, especially if walking distance, you meet a big network of people and a support network is created.

(And it sounds like your mum is a narcissist, read up on it and see if that sounds like it fits).

doodleygirl · 27/03/2021 11:34

I agree with the posters saying the real issue is your DH, I just don’t think you want to see that.

Your DM brought your DH into the business with the hope he would take over, what an amazing opportunity for him and your family. He couldn’t cut the mustard but your DM has still tried to find a way to accommodate him. He then threw the dummy out of his pram and is trying to reduce contact for your DC. All because he was not a good fit for the role.

I think you have a lot of soul searching to do.

blackhorses · 27/03/2021 11:34

I think that the emotional side of things with your parents is clouding thinking here.

Your job is the main financial support for your family so it needs to be prioritised.

It isn’t a good idea to take on all of the costs of moving when only one of you is working so you should stay in the same house.

You have young children and their needs should be prioritised.

When you look at those as the family priorities that leaves a clear path for your husband to take. He needs to apply for jobs which can fit round your role and the children’s needs but which he will enjoy. Eg the commute is fine but you either need him to do some work from home or you need a nanny. A night away is fine but has to be a different one from yours etc.

Once he’s settled into a role he likes you can begin thinking about whether moving would be best for your family; how you facilitate kids seeing grandparents etc etc.

Good luck- and i agree with everyone saying ditch the family childcare- it’s not going to work long term!

senua · 27/03/2021 11:35

Your DH was given a role in a family business he could have taken over but has never put his back into it or gone the extra mile.
Was he allowed to go the extra mile? Remember, the mother has never computerised; she's hardly cutting-edge.

Inthevirtualwaitingroom · 27/03/2021 11:37

people are making things up now!

MarieDelaere · 27/03/2021 11:48

And the benefits of living in a urban/suburban area is that when your children start school, especially if walking distance, you meet a big network of people and a support network is created.

This is so true.

I'm still friends with school parents and my DC are in their twenties now! I run into them in shops and we chat, check in on each other via SM, send cards etc.

Back in the day we helped each other out with babysitting and school walks. It was its own support network.

I'm not even that sociable Grin

Diverseopinions · 27/03/2021 12:03

I'm sure the business is computerised, for orders and accounting. An accountant would insist upon it. It's probably extra things which get scribbled, and the admin staff create the orders.

It sounds like DH wanted the job. I imagine in a company employing seventy that there are a few managerial- type roles, three or four, and it was one of those he was going to have. It might have been a speculative intention to give him the reins in time, but most business owners would be taking a wait and see attitude: you don't just take on an outsider - albeit family - who has no experience and plan for them to the CEO in waiting.

It's not working, so a new start needs to be found. It doesn't have to be all bitterness. In real life, some career situations keep bearing fruit like a well-fed apple tree. Yours is one: pay increases in percentage terms will equal lots in pounds terms. You need to keep your job. DParents need to keep their business thriving for sale of cousins, multiple grandchildren and employees and local community. It's not the time to move everything for the sake of the one not so likely to build a money-earning job. But nobody is stopping him expressing his interests, setting up a business, going on long vacations to see his family and friends. He needs to have his needs met.

Bluntness100 · 27/03/2021 12:05

@senua

Your DH was given a role in a family business he could have taken over but has never put his back into it or gone the extra mile. Was he allowed to go the extra mile? Remember, the mother has never computerised; she's hardly cutting-edge.
So? That’s No excuse for poor performance and even the op states there were issues, that he works to a list of tasks, , does not look to the bigger Picture, so leaves other stuff undone and doesn’t interact well with the staff.

He seems to habe been given every opportunity, the fact she’s nor computerised is no excuse.

senua · 27/03/2021 12:06

I want to know more about the employment side of life:
Has she, effectively, unfairly dismissed your DH? Was there any sort of appraisal / disciplinary strategy before she sacked him?
What is the arrangement with regard to references? This is important, otherwise he has a four year gap to explain.

UniversalAunt · 27/03/2021 12:06

As an aside, I found the BBC & OU Business School programmes made by Gerry Robinson both informative & entertaining - particularly about family run businesses.

- particularly this one.

There was a another BBC a series about families & inheritance by Gerry Robinson ‘Where there’s a will ‘, which showed how families tied themselves up in knots writing wills that would work & also the bizarre assumptions people made. I can’t find any episodes online which is a shame.

UniversalAunt · 27/03/2021 12:08

This is the one

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xk532

Anyone know how to lobby the BBC to make it available?

Bluntness100 · 27/03/2021 12:09

@senua

I want to know more about the employment side of life: Has she, effectively, unfairly dismissed your DH? Was there any sort of appraisal / disciplinary strategy before she sacked him? What is the arrangement with regard to references? This is important, otherwise he has a four year gap to explain.
Of course not. She’s perfectly entitled to restructure, remove his role, and create a new one. It’s him who resigned. Unless you’re suggesting they really duck the family relationship and he sues for constructive dismissal and her parents then need to articulate how bad he was, then this is not about employment law.

It’s about nepotism gone wrong. Grooming someone to take over who failed.

IloveJKRowling · 27/03/2021 12:09

@senua

I want to know more about the employment side of life: Has she, effectively, unfairly dismissed your DH? Was there any sort of appraisal / disciplinary strategy before she sacked him? What is the arrangement with regard to references? This is important, otherwise he has a four year gap to explain.
Read the OP! He wasn't dismissed, a new job was created for him he was moved sideways. He decided to resign rather than take the new job.

I wonder what the other employees of this company think of your DH. It really doesn't sound like he was that suited to the job, this could be a blessing in disguise.

Diverseopinions · 27/03/2021 12:16

Also think you can't treat 'survival or bust' life choices as whose turn is it to choose which restaurant to eat in?." Oh. It's DH's turn to call the shots". There has been a pandemic and what is going to work is the right choice. Forget the family business, but destabilising OP job is not sensible. Edinburgh doesn't sound a dependable move you could be sure would work out. It might, but you can't be sure. OP staying in the same company sounds safest.

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