Help me stay in my marriage.

[Littlesthobo84]

Just that really.
Late 30s, husband late 40s, it’s ok and plods along. We don’t row. He says he is perfectly happy. We don’t have sex. He won’t use condoms or get a vasectomy - he wants to risk timing. I won’t risk timing because I’ve had two high risk really difficult pregnancies already and although given my age it’s probably not likely my cycles are still regular and normal so it’s possible.
He says either I take the pill or we risk timing and I’ve taken the pill before and don’t want to be on it forevermore. I have migraines with aura and cannot take oestrogen based hormone medication. I took the mini pill for a long time before the children.
I don’t think I even want to have sex with him anyway and presumably it’s mutual because he’s not fussed about the vasectomy that he’s been mentioning for the past six years but not done anything about. We are nearly six years since we last had sex now. God, that’s even worse when written down.
I’m depressed about it, I feel checked out, but I don’t hate him. I care about him. I love my children. They are happy. My life is very separate to DH and always has been but my children are happy.
I just need to wait it out another 12/13 years until dd is 18. Remind me how the grass isn’t greener.

@Littlesthobo84

They still like him. He’s better when he’s off work, he’s stressed at work. He does make comments to me - I had a promotion at work and he said ‘if I’d had the snip now I’d have a special present for you’ and then gesticulated. And he says stuff like ‘I’d like to slip you a length.’ I don’t like these things especially by the way but he seems to think these things even if we then never have sex.

Those comments are dreadful and degrading. How can you let him speak like that to you?

My ExH is a better father seeing his kids EOW and a week in the summer holidays. He didn’t help when they were small. Now he has to look after them EOw and the kids have a better relationship with him now.

What happens in 12 years time if he has a serious accident and needs full time caring? Will you then martyr yourself for the rest of your life for someone who isn’t kind to you now and really doesn’t care about you?

At late 30s and having been together for getting into to 20 years maybe it’s the best you can hope for, rubbing along, not annoying each other too much, it being ok.
That’s why I think the grass isn’t always greener, it’s surely what happens to everyone?
What you are describing, though, is not things being OK. It's you being depressed. It isn't rubbing along: it's you being left to parent alone while your husband puts himself first every time. It isn't two people not annoying each other. It's you being silently sickened by your husband saying things to you directly that most repulsive oafs are smart enough to reserve for their mates down the pub.

In the past, your miserable situation is something that many people put up with for a long time. Their children were usually very much aware that their parents were unhappy. Today, it's what happens to a lot of people before they get divorced. I don't think it would be exceptional to stay; but it wouldn't be exceptional to leave, either, if you are basing your choices on what's "normal" rather than what you want.

@Littlesthobo84

The children aren’t bothered about our sex life (or lack of) though. If they were seeing us shouting, or he were abusive it would be different, but for them they are seeing an amicable relationship.

And that's going to be their benchmark for a relationship. An 'amicable' one.

Not a genuinely happy, healthy, loving, affectionate one where two partners are equal teammates, clearly think the world of one another.

I've been the kid in this situation. "We stayed together for your sake" etc.

I felt simultaneously guilty neither of them had the chance to meet someone they could have a joyful relationship with and angry they had shown me their relationship as a blueprint - no huge blow ups but no genuine affection, loving thoughtful touches, proper kindness, laughing your arse off together. All stuff that took me until my 30s to find with a partner as my benchmark was also just 'amicable' which led to a series of unhealthy relationships I just stuck at because I thought that's what you do unless someone is overtly abusive to you.

You might not be doing them the favour you think you are by showing them this is what a relationship looks like.

Well, if YOU don’t want any more children and can’t take the pill, would you consider a tubal ligation? Would that make any improvement in your life? If you definitely want to stay ( modelling an unloving r/s for your children), perhaps it might open some lines of communication with your husband?

I think that if, between you, you can't find a workable contraceptive solution, then it means neither of you are particularly bothered about the sex anyway. Read the recent thread on here about the bloke who was bullied into a vasectomy by his wife in order to save their sex life. It didn't work, and they still don't have one. Not suggesting your husband doesn't actually want a vasectomy (although maybe he's a bit scared by it), but perhaps he's aware that, deep down it's not going to reignite your sex life?

I agree altmember
We just don’t talk about it anymore - but you know, I’m late 30s and I’ve lived like this most of my adult life. He has for 20 years as well.
Before him I had a long term boyfriend and we had sex all the time but I was young then and at university. I suppose it’s what happens as you get older (although it’s never been any different apart from when I was on the pill we did have sex occasionally) and other stuff becomes more important?
DH did say if he had a vasectomy he’d expect to have ‘sex on tap’ which probably did make me scrunch my face up a bit. The thing is it’s been so long I can’t see how we could go from nothing to full sex. But he won’t do anything in the middle of that and see where it leads.

Seriously, what do you get from this relationship? I genuinely can't see the appeal at all

He's all talk, isn't he OP? Going on about sex and how much he'd be at it if only X, Y and Z. If you went on the pill there would probably be some other excuse. Not that you even want sex with him.

It's not what happens as you get older, no. It's sometimes what happens the longer you are in a bad relationship. Plenty of people older than you still enjoying a healthy sex life, thanks.

My children - 100% of the time.
Some nice times - on holidays mainly, possibly when DH is less stressed. The dc enjoy them. I know my dc are safe and happy.

@Littlesthobo84

I agree altmember We just don’t talk about it anymore - but you know, I’m late 30s and I’ve lived like this most of my adult life. He has for 20 years as well. Before him I had a long term boyfriend and we had sex all the time but I was young then and at university. I suppose it’s what happens as you get older (although it’s never been any different apart from when I was on the pill we did have sex occasionally) and other stuff becomes more important? DH did say if he had a vasectomy he’d expect to have ‘sex on tap’ which probably did make me scrunch my face up a bit. The thing is it’s been so long I can’t see how we could go from nothing to full sex. But he won’t do anything in the middle of that and see where it leads.

I don't think it is a getting older thing, certainly not at your ages anyway. It's more likely just the relationship gone stale, from a sexual point of view if nothing else. That may be recoverable if you both commit to working at it. Not suggesting you need to, but if you did separate and meet new partners, you'd both probably find your libidos come right back. You may be able to 'rediscover' each other and save things. The slightly lude comments he's making suggest that he's still interested in being sexual with you, so reading between the lines it may be that it's your sex drive that's dropped off more than his. He might be incredibly frustrated byt the current situation. It almost sounds like it could be a stand off - both being stubborn because you can't agree on a contraception method.

You poor woman, 'some nice times' is so very, very little to be happy with. I'm sorry that you have got used to that. I wonder if your child came to you in the future in your exact same situation, would you think that was a good enough marriage for them? Some nice times. Maybe, I don't know.

Of course you want your children to be safe and happy. I hope you don't sacrifice yourself for them, because I can tell you that feels absolutely awful from their perspective. They can be safe and happy in all sorts of family arrangements. Perhaps you feel you are safer in your marriage than out of it, given his attitude.

I don't like to nag anyone into a divorce but I will give my story. I was married 14 years with one DD aged 7. We'd been unhappy for a long time and definitely not having sex. No arguing, no abuse just an undercurrent of permanent dissatisfaction. I was intent on hanging on there, waiting for improvement, not to upset DD until one day it just sort of went pop. No particular reason worse than any other day. He huffed about dinner. I told him to leave. He packed a bag and went to stay in our caravan. I spent a week numb and totally confused about what to do next and then one morning I woke up and I knew I couldn't go back. The relief was so big I think I cried almost non-stop for 2 days. Years of trying to be ok. Of not saying "fuck off" when he picked at the dinner I'd cooked. He was like a Harry Potter Dementor sucking the joy out of my life.

My DD was upset for a few months. We had a couple of weeks of tears at bedtime. A few more weeks of asking when Daddy was coming home. Some upset at school but it passed. One day after about 6 months apart she nagged us into going for dinner together with her. It was exactly the same as it was when we were married. Not shouty but tense and horrid. DD said as we left that it wasn't any fun and she didn't want to do it again. She's right - we didn't have fun, we had tense. DD and I have fun. Apparently DD and exH have fun.

She's 10 now and so happy, really confident, does great in school. Everyone commented on how much happier she was post break up. I have an OH. There is good sex. He is not moving in (I'm not sure I'll ever want to do that again). He likes DD and she says he's fun. Ex-H had a girlfriend and she sounded nice but sadly covid killed that relationship.

There is something better, your kids don't have to be destroyed in the process.

I know a lot of people whose parents did exactly what you are proposing, stayed together until the youngest went to University or left home , then split up. And they all resent their parents for subjecting them to the misery of their shit marriage because neither of them had the guts to finish it, ruining their childhoods. Their parents speration made the parents happier but the children resented that too! Because the legacy of living with unhappily married parents had so scarred their children's lives and made it so hard for them to form healthy relationships of their own.

I think younger kids handle parents separating a lot better than older (teenage) kids do. Maybe due to a simplified understanding, maybe because they've spent longer, more formative years in the family unit, maybe just because they're stroppy teenagers lol. So once your kids have hit about 13, delaying splitting up doesn't seem to be advantageous for their wellbeing.

He doesn't do much parenting

You'd be scared to end things because he'd become vindictive and nasty

He shouts at your children when he's had a bad day at work

He doesn't care that there's no intimacy in your marriage

He 'jokingly' holds it over you with his comments about if he'd had the snip...

He wouldn't leave the home where his children have grown up to allow them stability even though he can afford to

This is not a healthy amicable relationship that is protecting your children's worldview and stability. It's one which is making their mother depressed.

(My parents had a reasonably acrimonious divorce when I was 11. I am fine, no trust issues, in my own happy relationship in adulthood. Children are adaptable)

therocinante but did it ruin your actual childhood?
I’m glad you are in a happy relationship 😊

I'm not really sure what you're asking OP. I think you may as well forget about sex if you're staying with him if it's already been 6 years. You'll just have to accept the relationship is dead, bury your head and crack on with seperate lives.

The dynamic of your relationship makes me deeply uncomfortable. I think you need to start being honest with yourself first before asking us for advice.

I think you are asking if it is better for the children if you stay - and based on the environment you are describing no its isnt. This is not a good place for them to be either

@Littlesthobo84

therocinante but did it ruin your actual childhood? I’m glad you are in a happy relationship 😊

Did you have any thoughts on the feedback from posters who were children whose parents were 'amicable' / stayed 'for the kids sake' etc? I think it's so important to try and see not just how your relationship affects them now but also consider the effect it could have in future.

That's going to be their benchmark for a relationship. An 'amicable' one.

Not a genuinely happy, healthy, loving, affectionate one where two partners are equal teammates, clearly think the world of one another.

I've been the kid in this situation. "We stayed together for your sake" etc.

I felt simultaneously guilty neither of them had the chance to meet someone they could have a joyful relationship with and angry they had shown me their relationship as a blueprint - no huge blow ups but no genuine affection, loving thoughtful touches, proper kindness, laughing your arse off together. All stuff that took me until my 30s to find with a partner as my benchmark was also just 'amicable' which led to a series of unhealthy relationships I just stuck at because I thought that's what you do unless someone is overtly abusive to you.

You might not be doing them the favour you think you are by showing them this is what a relationship looks like.

OP, I'm wondering what you're thinking about people's responses. You wanted help staying in your marriage but I'm not sure anyone has responded in that way, and I'm just wondering how that is landing with you. Were you expecting very different responses? I hope there's something useful for you here

@Littlesthobo84 My parents stayed together - well my mother forced them to stay together, my father actually tried (failed, just) to dump us all on the other side of the world when I was 11 - and their relationship was a lot like the one you envision for your children over the next decade or so.

No real fighting, but no affection either. It was obvious to me from the age of 9 my father had checked out of actually being a dad, he'd acted the part for a decade but wanted his single life back. Like a previous poster, my mother made me her confidante from the age of 10 (I was the only girl) and my childhood effectively ended.

He ended up leaving her for another woman when I was 21. I have two brothers and we all agree our childhood was a complete farce, ruined by two people who used us as an excuse to cover their own inadequacies. My mother didn't want the 'shame' of a failed marriage (she's Catholic) and my father had never wanted children in the first place.

I'm 52. I've not seen my father in 31 years and my mother for 11. I'm very low contact with her and deliberately live on the other side of the world. Neither myself or my two brothers have had any children of our own.

I hate it when people say we're staying together for the DC. My DP should have divorced many years ago but didn't and it's seriously no sort of role model for a relationship, you aren't doing your DC a favour, making them happy, all you're doing is delaying the unhappiness. By the time I was a teenager I already knew their marriage was rubbish, no affection, no laughing together, no common interests, they lived in the same house and very little else. I'm so sad they wasted their one and only lives for the sake of me and my siblings

If you did leave him, what would you do about birth control with a new partner? Would you take the pill or expect him to use condoms?