Help me stay in my marriage.

[Littlesthobo84]

Just that really.
Late 30s, husband late 40s, it’s ok and plods along. We don’t row. He says he is perfectly happy. We don’t have sex. He won’t use condoms or get a vasectomy - he wants to risk timing. I won’t risk timing because I’ve had two high risk really difficult pregnancies already and although given my age it’s probably not likely my cycles are still regular and normal so it’s possible.
He says either I take the pill or we risk timing and I’ve taken the pill before and don’t want to be on it forevermore. I have migraines with aura and cannot take oestrogen based hormone medication. I took the mini pill for a long time before the children.
I don’t think I even want to have sex with him anyway and presumably it’s mutual because he’s not fussed about the vasectomy that he’s been mentioning for the past six years but not done anything about. We are nearly six years since we last had sex now. God, that’s even worse when written down.
I’m depressed about it, I feel checked out, but I don’t hate him. I care about him. I love my children. They are happy. My life is very separate to DH and always has been but my children are happy.
I just need to wait it out another 12/13 years until dd is 18. Remind me how the grass isn’t greener.

@Littlesthobo84

The other thing is he isn’t an equal parent. I work four and a half days. He doesn’t do anything round the house or for the kids. He’s only just got up, I’ve been up since 6.15am with dc2. I asked if he’d use a day or two of holiday over the summer so the dc aren’t in holiday club all the time and he said he wasn’t using his holiday for babysitting and was only going to take holiday when I was off. He finishes early on a Friday and could fetch the dc so they don’t have to go to after school club but doesn’t.

This is really poor. I feel for the kids.

Here ya go OP. Well done.

It sounds to me that if you left, he'd let the kids go & not be bothered about seeing them tbh. You'd have to brave up to taking money from him to secure their future and a new home for them. I think overall you'd prob be happier on your own with the kids

He loves the children. I know he does. It’s part of what keeps me here.

But you dont need to stay for him to do that OP. In fact he may actually get to spend more time with them if you do leave

It sounds like you are flatmates with financial arrangements, not a married couple. He also sounds like he has checked out of the family (judging by your last post), but he is too comfortable to move on.

You don't have to jump, right now.

I would start with counselling. Take your time to work out what you really want (and at 30, you absolutely deserve a knee-trembling sex life).

In the meantime, I would explore sex toys and look into contraception for yourself. I don't like hormonal methods either, so I went with a copper coil. You could also get your tubes tied, or look at a female condom. I appreciate it sucks and he should do more, but if you do move on to a new relationship, you will be looking at these aspects anyway.

You're still lying to yourself if you believe that. You'd like to think that he does love his children deep down (despite you stating he is not an equal parent) but the only person this man truly loves is his own self. Not your kids and certainly not you. You are there for your own reasons; nothing to do with these children.

@Littlesthobo84

He loves the children. I know he does. It’s part of what keeps me here.

Great Then he has them 50 50 with you. He won't have any issue with that will he because he is happy to live and cate for them equally You and he get free time each to move on Everyone benefits Dc benefit from happy parents because he surely is not happy either You don't need to martyr yourself

...or are you kidding yourself because you described someone shouting and uninvolved eith dc. Which is it?
Loving means getting on with parenting including being able to be with the dc alone fir a week with no assistance. Has that happened ever?

Yes it strikes me that he may love them but he doesn't actually want to have to deal with them. There's plenty of people in flat marriages but ones that are at least an equal partnerships

I asked if he’d use a day or two of holiday over the summer so the dc aren’t in holiday club all the time and he said he wasn’t using his holiday for babysitting

God, what a piece of shit! Sorry OP but that does not say, ' man who loves his children' to me.

He loves them but I agree he wants me to sort them out.
For example he’d tell me one of them wanted something rather than doing it himself.
He’s not had them overnight on his own before. I’m not really sure how he’d manage. I mean he would, he’s an adult and he’s not stupid. I’ve just not known him do it. Ditto bedtime.

@Littlesthobo84

He loves them but I agree he wants me to sort them out. For example he’d tell me one of them wanted something rather than doing it himself. He’s not had them overnight on his own before. I’m not really sure how he’d manage. I mean he would, he’s an adult and he’s not stupid. I’ve just not known him do it. Ditto bedtime.

That's not actually loving though is it? Love is a verb. An action, an active choice. He isn't actively doing it.

@Littlesthobo84

He loves the children. I know he does. It’s part of what keeps me here.

How?

He doesn't: engage with them. Look out for them. Care for them either practically or emotionally (happy to see them longer in after school club after a busy week when they'll be tired, and he could pick them up and spend time with them?) Shouts instead of engaging with them. Is impatient instead of caring and loving.

He does not 'love' them - unless the word love is actually a very hollow and meaningless word in your home, and basically translates to 'well they're his kids so um, of course he loves them because parents love kids'.

This is posted so so often on here. 'But he's a great dad' 'Deep down he really loves them' - what does that actually mean, in the context of an uncaring, occasionally cruel, generally disinterested man?

Love is a verb. It really really is. I think it's hard though to actually absorb the fact that - these children who you love with everything you have... he, the other parent, genuinely does not feel the same way. Because he does not. It is as simple as that. Many, many men don't love their children. They don't have a bond, they don't engage, they hardly know them. These are the men who don't change nappies and leave them in childcare whenever possible, and get 'wound up' at them having any needs or foibles at all. These are the men who walk away and lose touch, as easy as pie. These men - your H is one of them. Otherwise your life would be different and your son wouldn't have said that.

@Littlesthobo84

He loves them but I agree he wants me to sort them out. For example he’d tell me one of them wanted something rather than doing it himself. He’s not had them overnight on his own before. I’m not really sure how he’d manage. I mean he would, he’s an adult and he’s not stupid. I’ve just not known him do it. Ditto bedtime.

Wows how many years have you been parents? What happens if you drop dead tomorrow? He lives them so much ...he has never spent the night alone with them or arrange anything himself right?

He really does not sound likely to push for many contact hours. But from the sound of it, even if he just saw them EOW the kids might end up spending more proper time with him than they do now.

@ravenmum

He really does not sound likely to push for many contact hours. But from the sound of it, even if he just saw them EOW the kids might end up spending more proper time with him than they do now.

I agree.

OP I know this is all hard to read and you may feel attacked / defensive but it comes from a place of people wanting you and your kids to have the best chance of happiness now and your kids to have the best chance of healthy relationships when they are adults.

At the moment the only person getting what they want and makes them genuinely happy, from the current set up, is your husband.

Who can't be arsed to parent his own kids.

I mean - do a little thought experiment. Think about how he treats them (the getting impatient and shouting, the not being bothered to get them from after school - all of his interactions). Seriously sit down and think about what it would take, how you would have to feel about them, to do the things he does, have the responses he does.

The after school is a good example. Think that one through. End of the week, Friday evening. They're tired. His babies. He could go get them, even if only for half an hour Dad time before giving them a biscuit and letting them have some lovely veg downtime in front of tv at the end of their week. Ask them how the week was. Normal Dad stuff - my DH would want to do that kind of thing (and does).

He doesn't want to. He doesn't want to see them. He'd rather have his downtime and he doesn't care even about bringing your wee 5 year old home to relax until someone else goes to get her. Having some time with them isn't something he gives one shit about.

I could cry at that, and at a mother simply refusing to see it, all bright eyed and fixed smile - 'He loves them, I know he does!'

He doesn't.

My mother fooled herself for 23 years that my father 'loved' his three children. He really didn't, he hadn't actually wanted us to exist in the first place. He was a 'good' father up until my older brother turned 10, and we all started showing signs of individuality and having personalities of our own. He didn't like that, and checked out of fatherhood not long afterwards.

Many, many men don't love their children. They don't have a bond, they don't engage, they hardly know them. These are the men who don't change nappies and leave them in childcare whenever possible, and get 'wound up' at them having any needs or foibles at all. These are the men who walk away and lose touch, as easy as pie.

My father was exactly as @YoniAndGuy said above. My older brother has told his wife that he has no positive memories of my father or our childhood. Instead of feeling upset that my brother feels that way, my mother is angry with him, for it means he is saying that her being a martyr by staying with him - ostensibly for our benefit - was the crock of shit it always was.

Love is actions not words.

What actions does he do that demonstrates his love for them?

It isn't working that is for himself for his esteem and ego and for money to spend on his hobbies.

So what else does he do that you construe as love?

Get sterilised. No pills for you, no snip for him. Take control of the situation.

Don't stay in a loveless marriage for the kids though.
Either work on rebuilding your marriage into something worth being in or leave. Don't hold out for 13 years and waste everyone's time.

It’s so depressing that you have accepted this is your life. When your children are grown up you will look back and wish you had left now.

@Littlesthobo84

My first thought after reading the entire thread was ( Briefly ), you are a troll. With virtually every reply, you start off critiquing your husband then end up defending him.

Then I thought, why are you here !? With every input, you make it very plain that you are not going to leave him under any circumstances.

You say your children are happy ( I bloody hope so ), and your husband is happy ( !? )

He doesn’t sound very happy. He sounds abusive. Abusive to you AND your children.

You had some great advice. You’ve counter argued all of it.

There is a line in a song by Gotye. ‘ You can be addicted to a certain kind of sadness ‘

I think you are addicted to a certain kind of misery.

Kick the habit. And kick him.

@YoniAndGuy

I mean - do a little thought experiment. Think about how he treats them (the getting impatient and shouting, the not being bothered to get them from after school - all of his interactions). Seriously sit down and think about what it would take, how you would have to feel about them, to do the things he does, have the responses he does.

The after school is a good example. Think that one through. End of the week, Friday evening. They're tired. His babies. He could go get them, even if only for half an hour Dad time before giving them a biscuit and letting them have some lovely veg downtime in front of tv at the end of their week. Ask them how the week was. Normal Dad stuff - my DH would want to do that kind of thing (and does).

He doesn't want to. He doesn't want to see them. He'd rather have his downtime and he doesn't care even about bringing your wee 5 year old home to relax until someone else goes to get her. Having some time with them isn't something he gives one shit about.

I could cry at that, and at a mother simply refusing to see it, all bright eyed and fixed smile - 'He loves them, I know he does!'

He doesn't.

This. ^

He "loves" them as objects, in the abstract, as ticks in the "family" box. He doesn't love them as people, he barely knows them. He doesn't want to spend time with them, he doesn't enjoy their company, he slopey-shoulders everything they need and anything that needs doing for them onto you.

Aside from that:
Tbh, I think you should go to your doctor and look into taking anti-ds and start counselling or therapy on your own, as you just seem so very flat and locked into one way of thinking about things. And the times I've been like that, it's been depression. It's certainly worth addressing your MH, if not for your own sake, for the dc's as they've really only got you.

There was an incredibly sad post on MN about a year ago from a woman who had spent her entire adult life in an emotionally abusive relationship and had kept postponing leaving. Finally, in her mid-40s (according to the post), she had got away only to be diagnosed with a terminal illness and not that long left to live. She felt like she had wasted her life. One of the main purposes of her post was to urge other people not to make the same mistake she had.

And you have absolutely no way of knowing if you will be able to get away even when the children do leave home. Also bear in mind that, given property prices, many adult children continue to live with their parents through their 20s and even into their 30s. So your idea that a family home will no longer be needed once the youngest turns 18 could be completely wrong. Wouldn't it be better to be creating different homes in the meantime?

Life is not a dress rehearsal, OP. This is your one shot and for all that you probably have a good chance of living into your 80s and beyond, it could end at any time.