Lose lose situation, which path do I choose?

[Toto2021]

When I first met my BF it did cross my mind that we might be in different stages of our lives but we clicked, I enjoyed his company and I thought I would just see what happened. Fast forward 2 years and we now live together and are very happy. However he has 2 kids ages 17 & 19 and I don’t have any. I have thought a lot about this recently and realised I don’t think there’s a future unless he’s option to having anymore. So I broached the subject last week and he said no. There was no discussion about it, just that he didn’t want anymore and he won’t change his mind. I feel like I’m now in a position where I either choose the relationship and miss out on motherhood or leave and take the risk of being both single and childless. I feel like I’m being forced to make a lose lose decision and I don’t know what to do. Has anyone had to leave their partner because they couldn’t agree on having kids and what was the outcome?

@Toto2021

So many people change their mind about things - kids, marriage, splitting up, moving, so even if we both are adamant right now we want different things, should I not give it just a few months to just be sure? It is really hard, my head is saying one thing and my heart is saying another. I still love him and it’s not like I would meet anyone else right now with lockdown.

He's 43. His kids are more or less grown up. I can't blame him for not wanting to start again. I don't think it's fair on either of you to hope that he will change his mind. You need to decide if you can live without having kids. If you really want kids then you know you need to leave him.

He's 43. His kids are more or less grown up. I can't blame him for not wanting to start again. I don't think it's fair on either of you to hope that he will change his mind. You need to decide if you can live without having kids. If you really want kids then you know you need to leave him.

This is the reality. When you've been there and done that, you really might not want to do it again. Babies are hard work! He has already reared 2. He knows what is involved.

If you did have children, you might as well be a single mother as he's going to put all the responsibility on you as he didn't want another child.

You're young enough to start again with someone who does want children.

This is rather radical and may be totally unacceptable. Move out. Find a way to have a child on your own (donor etc) and continue the relationship with your partner on a different basis. I am childless by choice and I must admit it was a big part of the appeal with DH that he has had children already and didn’t want them from me.

He has had the experience of children before, he knows exactly what to expect so I'm afraid that I think his opinion is based on experience and more than likely won't change.

So the ball is in your court, you have all the information you need to make a decision. Can you live without children? Many do. But if you decide you want to have children I wouldn't leave it too late in finding that person. I had my first at 32, it wasn't easy and I don't know whether age was a factor in that. I'm now pregnant again at 39, and I can't tell you how difficult it has been. 3 miscarriages before I became pregnant. It wasn't easy this time round. Now all women are totally different and you might find it straight forward.

It’s so hard OP. I know someone who left a partner years ago for the same reason and has not met anyone else and had children so the assumptions it would just happen for you because it has for others don’t stand - I’m sure you realise that though.
There’s also the assumptions because you want kids you’d do it at any cost and go it alone. People who’ve got pregnant naturally with a partner don’t always realise/stop to think that to do it any other way has all sorts of implications and isn’t necessarily that simple. Plus how important is having a relationship in the future? Because if you already have a child on your own your social life will restrict the chances of that. I always desperately wanted children - but as I got older I realised that there would have to be compromises somewhere and I couldn’t have the whole package, probably. My husband was reluctant at the start of our relationship and I knew by then that a good relationship with a lovely man was more important to me ... and even if he did want children it might not happen by then anyway. He wasn’t keen and went through redundancy and loss of a parent in our first 2-3 years together so it wasn’t a priority anyway. Six years later and after 2 years of marriage we have been trying but the chances are tiny. I’m really sad about that and he’s sad I’m sad. But we went into marriage not expecting to have children, our relationship never depended on that to be “complete” ... so it’s different. And in all honesty I loved him and decided he was more important to me than having a child .... even though it breaks my heart not to have children, I don’t resent him as I went into this with my eyes open and we’ve made our choices together. For you, I wonder if you’d feel resentment further down the line, and that would kill the relationship anyway. There’s a risk in leaving as there is no guarantee of a relationship but I agree with what others have said about living life on your own terms and not in the shadow of what someone else wants if that doesn’t give you “enough”, whatever “enough” is (but it’s not settling, I mean really “enough” to be satisfied with what you have even if it’s not everything.)
Hope that makes some sense. Good luck, you will come out of this the wiser, it’s such a tough choice.

I do believe these are discussions that must take place reasonably early in a relationship (depending on age and circumstances). If one side has children, especially older children then you really need this conversation. It should be clear that someone with children, especially older children may not want more.

I don't think he is likely to want more. If you have always known you want children you are unlikely to change your mind. Leave now and try and find what you want.

Why did he and the kids mum split? For all you know it could have ended due to him being a reluctant/useless dad. It's bloody hard bringing up kids. You lose your freedom identity and often your sanity. Your life will more or less be on hold and it will never be about you whilst they are living at home. All that is so much harder with a reluctant uncaring parent

walk away 🌺

He split with the mother of his kids as it had ran its course to the point they were both looking elsewhere so they decided it was time to call it a day. More him than her but I know he found it hard not being with his kids after they split up. I haven’t mentioned it again since our conversation the other week but he has mentioned it in passing tonight. He said that he has been thinking about what was said the other week and that he was taken back so maybe didn’t react the best way. I could see he’s clearly still working through it in his head which is why I wanted to give it a little time before just leaving.

@Craftycorvid

This is rather radical and may be totally unacceptable. Move out. Find a way to have a child on your own (donor etc) and continue the relationship with your partner on a different basis. I am childless by choice and I must admit it was a big part of the appeal with DH that he has had children already and didn’t want them from me.

Except that her current partner won't want to be tied down to the needs of a young child. He's long past that and has said so.

I always reply to these threads to advise leaving. Which is what I did when I got to 36 and it was stay and definitely not have children or leave and possibly not meet someone else and still not have children. A horrible time ensued with leaving our shared home and buying a small house for myself but via OLD I met my DH and we now have 3 children.
Believe me, you won't be madly in love with this man when you are 45 and the chance to have children has been taken away. Your resentment would likely be worse because he actually has children.

@mcmooberry I agree with you & I was thinking last night of when his kids eventually have kids & there’s babies round the house and the thought of that just made me realise the only thing I can do is leave. But from a conversation last night it sounds like he’s processing everything that was said the other week. I haven’t mentioned it again & I won’t do for another month or so, he himself brought it up in passing last night. Then if things are the same in a month or 2 I will start making arrangements to leave but we are tied together in different ways so I can’t just up & leave and start a new life straight away.

@mcmooberry did your ex go on to meet someone who also didn’t want kids?

@Toto2021

You asked for a man’s opinion, so here is one:

After a painful divorce, ( She had an affair ), and after a good period of time, concentrating on my children and getting my head straight, I met and began a relationship with a lovely lady who had children the same age as mine. I loved them all and treated them equally.

But over time, geography amongst other things forced us apart.

Like your BF, I’m in the later stages of middle age. My children are men with their own families. My grandchildren are my most precious joy.

But if I was in a similar situation to your BF, and a partner / you said, ‘ I want children or I’m leaving but I’m giving you three months to mull it over, with the result being if you haven’t changed your mind and agree, I’m off ‘

My reply would be, ‘ No need to wait three months, I’ll help you pack now. I love you and I respect your decision. Good luck, good bye ‘

Many on here, ( Mostly women, I guess ), have said / advised leaving him to fulfil your dream and desire to have children, and that’s great advice.

But you have no idea about children or raising them and how they completely change the dynamic in a relationship, for the most part. He has.

At the moment, you have no idea about how exhausting sleepless nights can be, your social life will centred around a new born, the emotional and financial changes that ensue, he has.

People say you will resent him if you stay and miss the opportunity to have children.

If you get your way, he may well resent YOU and the child.

I think it takes a good 18 months to truly know someone.

The sooner you talk about important stuff the sooner you get to know what someone truly wants. Well OK not "can I have your babies?" on the first date but 18 months is leaving it a long time.

we are tied together in different ways so I can’t just up & leave and start a new life straight away.

After only 2 years together you "are tied together in so many ways" that you can't just up and leave, but you hadn't sorted out something as vital as whether to start a family before making all those ties? Ouch.

Complex scenario, but not necessarily a lose/lose. If kids are really important to you and something you don’t want to miss out on (and I have one and it’s amazing!), you have to get your skates on!

You asked for a male position. I’m a single Dad, I love my son, I’d actually be happy to have more, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker if I was seeing someone who didn’t. However if I was dating a woman at 35 (I’m 42) who really did I’d be wanting to get things started ASAP as there isn’t much time to waste on dithering.

From a man's point of view - I've got kids, and I'd happily have more if I was with someone who wanted them. But I'm currently in a relationship with someone who has kids, and definitely doesn't want more, and I'm happy with that too. I'll be honest, becoming a parent is a lot easier for a man - don't have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, child birth, breast feeding (not suggesting that's a bad thing, just that an infant is totally dependent on the mother for that). Once kids get past the toddler stage, parenting is far less demanding. So it's the mother who always has to make more sacrifices/changes to her life.

Even if I didn't particularly want more children and I was with someone who really wanted to, I'd accept that the relationship isn't going to to work out. I'd want a partner to be happy, and them missing out on children because I didn't want more would make me want to 'set them free'. To stay with them would be selfish.

I've got a female friend who was in the opposite situation to you - she had a son (teenage), and didn't want any more, but she got together with a man who had none and decided he did want kids of his own. She had a better paid job than him, and he offered to be a stay at home dad, so she relented and they had two kids together. They split up when the youngest was about 18 months, she now has the kids full time, and he has minimal contact.

I think that if you stay with him and miss out on kids, you'll regret it, and end up resenting him, and the relationship will probably break down at that point anyway. This isn't something you can compromise on

So in your situation, you really need to make it clear to him that as much as you love him, you want children of your own, but that you don't want to push him into something he doesn't want. Ask him what he thinks a solution might me (I think it's obvious that you need to split up unfortunately) - it's not like you can compromise and have half a child! It sounds like he's just burying his head in the sand at the moment, hoping it'll go away by itself.

OP, you are not at the point where you should hang on. He's actually been super clear with you and for that I would actually be grateful! No years of being dragged along. You should ask him if you think it's something you could talk about more openly? If he shuts it down again then it's not going to happen.

You deserve to find someone else and have a child if that's what you want.

@Dervel It’s nice to have that confirmation there are men out there in their 40s still open to having more. Your mindset is what I had hoped my partners would be. It’s also really nice to hear you speak positively of having your child. It’s a bit depressing some of the comments about how hard it is, how they wouldn’t want to do it again etc etc. I actually looked after my sisters baby full time for 3 months whilst she was in hospital so I have had a taster. I KNOW it won’t be easy but I also fully believe the good would outweigh the hard times. When me and my partner got pets I think rather than them potentially being a substitute for a baby, it’s had the opposite affect and made me realise I have a lot of love to give and the mothering side of me came out. People are asking why we didn’t have this conversation at the start but they don’t seem to be listening to what I’m saying. It’s only recently started to become something I’m wanting more and I DID broach it at the start but at no point did he say there’s no way he would never have anymore. Why is the onus on me to be having a serious conversation about it when I was unsure how I felt yet i still did broach it loosely. However he apparently feels that strongly on having no more yet failed to bring it up once. @Fabiofatshaft1 with your mindset that you would tell someone you loved to pack their bags in that situation I hope that you a) would make it clear your stance on kids before getting to that point and b) that don’t use that mindset in general when your partners wants don’t match yours, what a very cold way to handle things!

@altmember thank you for your constructive post, I appreciate it.

Well @Toto2021 it’s not that kids aren’t hard, it’s just that the love you feel for them and the incredible privilege it is to watch a whole actual human being come into being and develop is phenomenal. If you have the urge to discover that I honestly cannot recommend that strongly enough.

I’ll also add this, I’m currently involved with a 35 year old although she has kids already. We have discussed the possibility of more, and we’re both currently of the shared mindset it might be nice, but we’re still early days. However if I was truly in love with a woman, and had doubts about more children (especially if she hadn’t had any yet) it would be priority level soul searching to answer that question as a matter of urgency either to let her go to pursue that dream, or to make the leap to do it again with her. Currently as you can probably tell I love kids, so the later option really is no great ask.

It’s a bit depressing some of the comments about how hard it is, how they wouldn’t want to do it again etc etc

But these comments are coming from people who have already had children, like your partner. Obviously most of the posters saying this (me included) would have completely wanted children at one point and been very excited by the prospect. I definitely was and don't regret them for a second but that and the thought of doing it all again when those children are now teenagers and you've been through all of the stages that entails (financially, mentally, physically and everything else) are two different things entirely.

It wouldn't be a new experience for your partner, he knows exactly what it entails and I'm sure he loves his children very much but that doesn't mean you want to do it all over again at this stage in his life.

Also, you looked after your niece for 3 months, which is a good taster of having a baby, but that's not the same as raising two children to the age of 17/19.

I don’t think anyone is criticising the OP’s bf for not wanting to do it all over again. However I do think it’s incredibly naive of him to have embarked on a serious commitment with a 35 year old with no children of her own for 2 years without this question being settled comprehensively ahead of time.

@Dervel It was just nice to hear a positive side to it as well, I know how hard it will be but to only give the negative side of it as some posters has, isn’t the full truth. Like you say, I can imagine it’s so rewarding to watch them grow into their own person. And I completely understand my partner has done it before and this thread isn’t about me changing his mind or forcing him into something he doesn’t want. It’s a place to work out my thoughts and go through everything to work out what path I want to take. And to try and understand things that I currently don’t. Although it won’t be a new experience for him it will be a new experience for US. We make a good team and ideally I would want to experience this with him, even if I had experienced it before.