Lose lose situation, which path do I choose?

[Toto2021]

When I first met my BF it did cross my mind that we might be in different stages of our lives but we clicked, I enjoyed his company and I thought I would just see what happened. Fast forward 2 years and we now live together and are very happy. However he has 2 kids ages 17 & 19 and I don’t have any. I have thought a lot about this recently and realised I don’t think there’s a future unless he’s option to having anymore. So I broached the subject last week and he said no. There was no discussion about it, just that he didn’t want anymore and he won’t change his mind. I feel like I’m now in a position where I either choose the relationship and miss out on motherhood or leave and take the risk of being both single and childless. I feel like I’m being forced to make a lose lose decision and I don’t know what to do. Has anyone had to leave their partner because they couldn’t agree on having kids and what was the outcome?

He seems to have made it clear he doesn’t want any more children. You either stay with him and accept this and never become a mother or you leave to find someone you can have children with.
You have time, but you need to act soon if having a children is a priority. Also consider that if you stay and the relationship ends in 5-10 years, it will be too late. But he will still have children whereas you won’t.
I have a friend similar age to you, who has an older partner who doesn’t want more children. She would have liked children of her own, but has sacrificed this to be with him. If the relationship later breaks down I worry what she will be left with and have missed her chance of becoming a mother.

Leave and have your kids OP you won't regret it 🌺

A former colleague desperately wanted children but her husband didn't. She stayed with him. However, he then had an affair with a younger woman and left my friend for her. He ended up having kids with this woman and, sadly, my friend was then too old to have kids herself. She was heartbroken!

He maybe doesn't want to be running about with teenagers when he is 60 . It's as simple as that - maybe not being able to retire because he still has the financial responsibilities . This is the problem with older men .

It’s a sad situation. I suspect he will have thought he made it clear to you that he didn’t want kids when you spoke about it at the beginning of your relationship. I can, sort of, understand why he doesn’t want to discuss it. I imagine he doesn’t see any point. He knows he doesn’t want anymore children and that’s that.
If you know you want kids then there is no other option but to split. Good luck. I hope things work out ok.

Hey OP, I haven't been in your exact situation but I've made a similar choice as I chose to have kids as a single parent. Time was still on my side but I wasn't willing to wait until it wasn't - and take the risk of it not working.

Everyone who'se said staying with him doesn't mean you won't be single are right. A friend of mine made this choice - he had a daughter and didn't want more, she wanted kids but decided to stay with him. He loved her very much but he ended up having a fatal accident. My friend was 41. Too late for kids (she couldn't afford IVF and is from a culture in which having kids single is frowned upon).

I have been told that it's harder to meet someone when you have kids, and that I was throwing away my chance to have a partner. To this day I have no regret (and I'm still single). My sons are 2yo and 10 months. They are gorgeous. I have the rest of my life to meet someone, no time limit on that, but there's a much tighter time window for kids.

So, if I was you I would start trying right away. You don't have to do IVF btw - IUI may be an option. So much less invasive and so much cheaper.

As an aside, another friend of mine was in this exact same situation. She decided to both stay with her boyfriend AND try for kids. It's understood the child (if and when it happens) will be hers only (to clarify it'll be a donor child, not from her BF). Would that be an option for your BF ? That's assuming obviously that you're willing to do it alone.

For me it was a no brainer - not having kids was not an option so I did whatever I had to, to ensure it happened. You need to figure out how you feel about kids, but from your post it sounds like you want them.

PS - I wouldn't assume that he'll change his mind. Typically, staying with someone while hoping they'll budge on something important to you is a recipe for disaster.

Imagine yourself in 40 years. What would you regret most ? No kids or breaking up with him ? How would you feel if he broke up with you when you were 45 ?

Are you happy to accept that you won't have children? Are you happy with not having children and then ending up single at a time when you can no longer have children?
Do not waste time and wait for him to change his mind if you really do want to have children, because it sounds like he's firmly made his decision.

My brother has been engaged twice. He was clear in both relationships that he didn't want kids, the first relationship he was with her 6 years from 24 to 30 they were 4 months off their wedding when she dropped the bombshell that she thought he'd change his mind and want kids...the wedding was called off, 2nd fiance he was with 5 years again same thing she thought she could Change his mind they too split up. He is now married in his forties to a woman who had 3 older kids from her first marriage, he has no kids.

There are times that people change their mind but usually they're not a definitive no on having kids. I had a baby with a 2nd partner and I was uncertain whether I wanted more kids and to be honest it is one of the most difficult times of my life going back to kids when I wasn't sure I wanted more my eldest is 16 and baby is 7 months.

You need to talk to him and ask is he 100% certain he doesn't want kids and if he is that it will be potentially the end of your relationship. I DONT mean threaten that if he doesn't agree your leaving but tell him that you want a baby and you hope that he would consider it. Give him time to think about it and if he still says no then you can maké your decision.

OP Sorry to be brutally honest but you don't have the time to wait a few months to see if he will change his mind.

You are 35 and time is unfortunately not on your side. If you want kids, you need to end the relationship and look for someone who can give you what you want.

I would tell him your plan and make plans to leave. Perhaps this will make him change his mind (it doesn't sound like it) but if not, you have the chance to meet someone else who does want kids.

I think that you should have had this discussion about children, in a more serious manner,much earlier on. Your partner had been very adamant about not wanting any more children.He is not being selfish towards you, he has older teens now, and that is probably enough for him now.

You can't go by your own inner thoughts, as in thinking some people change their minds about things as such. The decisions are yours, whether you can contemplate your life with this man,knowing that he does not want another child, and you desire to have one..

You don't need to split up because of this, but you personally,might think it is a reason to split up.

@Toto2021

He is 43 and I’m 35. We loosely spoke about it at the beginning of us dating but it was more me raising concerns and him brushing them aside. I said to him when I broached it last week that surely he must have known this would be an issue as I don’t have any. He said maybe it’s selfish but it’s just not something he would consider. I know / know of so many couples where the man has “been there done that” but who go onto have a child later in life with a new partner. And I can’t help but feel they must have loved their partner more than my BF loves me. Deep down I know I should leave if he’s adamant but I also think couples don’t just split up after one conversation do they? Am I right to at least give us both a few months before making such a final decision. We have a life together, pets together, we live together and I won’t try to force him into anything but I can’t help but hope he might come round to the idea? He is very quick to shut things down at first then he does seem to come round to things. However I do realise this is one thing he probably won’t change his mind on. I could understand his reluctance more if he never wanted to be a parent at all but he has 2 kids, it’s me who would go through the birth, financially we are fine, I feel like he just doesn’t want to give up his freedom which I understand but I have moved town to be with him, so we can live near his kids and throughout this past year it’s not his mates or holidays that have been there for him, it’s been me and his kids. I give so much to this relationship and to be shut down so quickly when I broached this subject just shocked me.

I think early on is not going to give enough insight in to what might happen. You are right you will be the one having the child etc, but as it doesn't seem to be something dealt with in earlier conversations it's left very late. I have been in this situation but only the other way around, my abusive exP suddenly decided he wanted a baby, and I had to oblige, manipulated me, I know your situation is not the same exactly, but just giving my example. I'm sure there are other couples who have negotiated on having kids but I don't think it's ever something that you can compromise on, it's one of the biggest things if not the biggest, that you will ever do in your life! Anyway despite who wanted what, as mother unless you abandon them, you end up doing the lion's share of the work, and despite whatever wishes I had originally I was the one who stepped up and done it all, well lol especially now since dropping his arse! So I can't help but feel a lot of bad things about the whole situation, as I never wanted kids, never mind to end up on my own with one, but there we are!

If I was your DP and had kids almost grown up I guess it would be a case of aww bless they came along years ago and it's all been and gone, and I would love to repeat the chance again, or no thanks been there, now want what's left of my life, your DP sounds like the latter.

He one million percent is not going to want more. If you 'accidentally' get pregnant I doubt you will make it to the birth. The question is are you ok with living his life, his way, for him? He must have known this was going to happen. Why did he not tell you - even if you didn't ask he should have been clear.

As for you were there for him.. I suspect he sees that as you both had no choice. Once he does have choice will he feel obliged to take that into account? Or will he feel resentful that you expect reciprocity, when he would rather just have fun with mates and holidays etc?

Oh and don't even think about handing contraception over to him. Unless he gets the snip (which tbf he should do). An unwanted baby is going to be very unwanted indeed. Don't do it. Start building your life for you so that when he drifts off you have friends, a social life, and some hope. Don't just sit around waiting for him to feel grateful and come and keep you company - he won't.

You say it's lose/lose, I'm not sure that's true.

You're assuming that if you leave him your life will be as "unfulfilled" as if you'd stayed with him and "agreed" to stay childless.

Frankly I think the only loss is to stay.

I'd rather live a life alone on my own terms than regret living one together on someone else's.

A relationship tainted by resentment (and I think you'd end up feeling this way) is far worse than being single or in childless relationship with a different positive dynamic.

It's not wrong for your DP to not want more children. Neither is it wrong for you to want to have a child of your own.

The key thing here is it's you making all the sacrifices and taking all the risk.

You assume you are swapping being childless for a fabulous "until we die" commitment.

The scales are not exactly balanced here are they? He's got his kids and a younger partner. He's your BF so not not even committed enough to marry.

If you spilt up in the future who has invested the most in this relationship and stands to lose the most....he will be fine, no maintenance or child support; you having sacrificed your fertility.

It's not really a partnership is it? - be honest to yourself.

He's got what he wants and yes that's fine and dandy. If he doesn't want more children the maybe he should date older women with children? Or women who don't want children?

I frankly can't imagine "feeling the love" for a man who was happy to be in a relationship where he expects such sacrifice from someone he purportedly loves.

There was no discussion about it, just that he didn’t want anymore and he won’t change his mind.

I've seen it said many times on threads like this that "there was no discussion". Usually it means that he didn't agree to do what his wife wanted.

What discussion needs to be had? He's adamant that he doesn't want more. And he knows more about what parenting involves than you do.

He should've made that clear right from the first day - I think it's very very unfair to date a woman of your age without making it clear if you don't want children.

On the other hand, the woman can always make it clear right from the first day that she does want children.

He's not going to change his mind OP. As someone with young children I know the effort and time and money it takes and once we are through this phase (and I adore my children deeply) I won't want to return to it either. There are new adventures for us! (this is also how I focus on the positives of the children growing rather than lamenting the loss of little people) but unless something dramatic happens in my life and I take custody of a family members child, I will not be starting again in my mid 40s. Having a child is a monumental task and not one to be forced upon someone who has made it clear to you they don't wish it. You have to respect his wishes, in the same way he must respect yours, even if it means the end of the relationship. Also it's not just "a third child" this child will live an entirely different life to the other two children he has -it is a second family. I don't think trying to wear him down over a few months will help -it is more likely to entrench him. I do wish you all the best for your potential new path!

There is no way he will change his mind OP. If I was 43 with a 19 and a 17 year old there is no way in hell I would start over again with a new baby, no matter how much I loved my new partner. He had his kids young so knows exactly what it entails, and is now enjoying his life and some freedom.

If you definitely want children you need to leave now and not wait a few months to see if he will change his mind. He won't. If you are ambivalent about wanting children and it's just because you are 35 and think you should, then that's also something you need to think about. Having children isn't always the amazing thing that it's made out to be.

Wanting to wait a few months is because you don't want to have to let go at all, when really you have already given it 2 years, so a few months will not change anything. It does delay things though, and time is not on your side. I would of liked 2 DC, I split with my son's father when 36, never had a significant relationship after that where DC were a consideration, but when I got past 40, I started feeling like I'd been there and done that, so I'm glad to be on the other side of it, so I can see where your DP is coming from, I doubt he'll change his mind.

Disclaimer: Am Childfree

You're being quite unreasonable expecting (hoping?) that he should have another child, especially after all his children have grown & he is onto the next phase of life.

The thing is you can't compromise on having a child. It's a huge decision & it's not something you should attempt to talk someone around to agreeing to. "Just one more!" means nothing - it's a whole new human, not like it's just an extra bike to squeeze into the shed!

Just as you hoped he might change is mind, he was hoping you'd be OK with not having kids. TBH if you hadn't brought this up after 2 years in your 30s maybe he thought you weren't that keen on having kids?

This conversation should have happened a lot sooner, by the length of relationship & your ages.

You have to decide what you want - either the chance to have children & leave, or accept no children & stay.

But he hasn't done you wrong by not wanting children! Just as you're not wrong for wanting them.

This is what "irreconcilable differences" are sadly

"He's got what he wants and yes that's fine and dandy. If he doesn't want more children the maybe he should date older women with children? Or women who don't want children?

I frankly can't imagine "feeling the love" for a man who was happy to be in a relationship where he expects such sacrifice from someone he purportedly loves."

This is ridiculous. Making women in consensual relationships out to be the victim is so obnoxious and insulting.

You could easily say that women who want kids shouldn't date middle-aged men who have already raised a family, and then expect these men to "sacrifice " their freedom and money to provide her with offspring.

OP is an autonomous adult. She is free to move on if the relationship with him doesn't meet her needs. It would be despicable to coerce him into creating yet another human being. No means no.

@2ndtimemum2

My brother has been engaged twice. He was clear in both relationships that he didn't want kids, the first relationship he was with her 6 years from 24 to 30 they were 4 months off their wedding when she dropped the bombshell that she thought he'd change his mind and want kids...the wedding was called off, 2nd fiance he was with 5 years again same thing she thought she could Change his mind they too split up. He is now married in his forties to a woman who had 3 older kids from her first marriage, he has no kids.

There are times that people change their mind but usually they're not a definitive no on having kids. I had a baby with a 2nd partner and I was uncertain whether I wanted more kids and to be honest it is one of the most difficult times of my life going back to kids when I wasn't sure I wanted more my eldest is 16 and baby is 7 months.

You need to talk to him and ask is he 100% certain he doesn't want kids and if he is that it will be potentially the end of your relationship. I DONT mean threaten that if he doesn't agree your leaving but tell him that you want a baby and you hope that he would consider it. Give him time to think about it and if he still says no then you can maké your decision.

He's given her his answer.

Badgering and wheedling in hopes he'll change his mind is contemptible.

And being honest here, a single, attractive man in his 40s with nearly independent kids can write his own ticket on the dating scene and probably knows it.

He won't be alone for long if OP leaves, so why would he be desperate enough to cave to her demands? He's probably fond of her but not so fond as to shackle himself to 20 more years of child rearing.

Honestly? You’re 35 and want kids. He has almost grown up ones and doesn’t want more. Both of your positions are perfectly logical and understandable and I strongly doubt either of you will change your minds.

Here is the rub though - if you do want kids given he won’t have them then you need to crack on in finding another partner or exploring other options. Don’t let the sink costs fallacy eat up more time.

I know you’d like him to change his mind, that would be ideal. But really, even if he said a very reluctant “if we must” to stop you leaving is that what you want for the father of your children? Someone who doesn’t actually want them?

I have two friends who have been in similar situations.
One gave up her chance to have children for a man she adored. They were together happily for 20 years until she found out he was cheating - completely blind sided. To make matters worse he has agreed to try for children (fertility intervention required) for the new (much younger) woman.
My friend is now heartbroken, alone, childless and too old to meet someone new and have the family she always wanted. Such a sad situation.
2nd, was in a relationship with a much younger guy and again very much in love with him so was happy to ignore the fact that he didn’t want children for a very long time, until the time arrived when she knew she would need to start trying at some point, so they split up. She is now 42, not in a relationship and very much regretting the time spent ignoring the inevitable.
Put yourself and your desire for children first.

No I wouldn’t want a child with him if he was only doing it to keep me. And I have no plans to badger him about this or wait years. But surely the logical thing to do is not just leave Instantly just because he said no he doesn’t want more. I Know many couples who have disagreed on how many kids or where to live or whether to get married but not one of them said they had one conversation about it and then left straight away because they wanted different things. He had one other GF between me and his ex wife (who his 2 kids are with) and he met his ex GF when she had a 18 month old. So he cared for and lived with another mans young child. I know you will say it’s not the same as having your own but that fact still hurts.

It's not the logical thing to do. It's what your heart wants to do. You don't want to give up as your heart is telling you not to. But if you want kids you must. At the very least havd a conversation again snd set a time frame. Say 6 months. Say if you don't want them I understand but in 6 months time this is what is going to happen. And then drop the subject and stick to the deadline.

Otherwise you WILL lose your chance. I've seen it happen dozens of times. And you won't even have him to compensate.