March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi all, first post here and I feel like a bit of a fraud as there are some really sad stories here which I'm sorry to read about! I've always felt a bit weird about using the word abuse with my parents as they've never been as 'bad' as other parents, but over lockdown I've started to realise that I need to distance myself from them.

My dad was physically abusive towards my mum when I was little, and afterwards would always storm out and then come back crying and apologise to me, saying he would never do it again. This was then brushed under the carpet and never mentioned, until the next time. Over time the physical abuse stopped, but he was very emotionally manipulative towards us all, using things like the silent treatment to get his way. He's always had depression, so uses this to manipulate, saying he'll kill himself if he's unhappy. My mum always bends to his will, and has always chosen his happiness over mine or my sister's.

Since having my own child I've felt angry towards them about my childhood, but don't know if this is something I want to address as I think they will just tell me I'm being a drama queen and upsetting everyone.

I don't want to stop contact with them but I do want to establish some boundaries, but not sure how to do this? There have been a couple of things over the last year which have shown that they don't really respect me. Everytime I tell them I'm not comfortable with something, they find a way to overstep just slightly so that they can get their way. I wasn't happy with them putting their dog in my baby's face for them to 'get to know each other', so the response was 'oh it's only for a little bit'. I was pregnant over lockdown (just had DD2!) and wanted to socially distance so had to keep asking my dad to keep 2m away, but he kept finding reasons to move closer or get my daughter to go up to him. What's made me want to address this though is how they have acted since having DD2. I went in for an elective c section. Afterwards, DH rang and told them everything was fine, she was here and we would update as and when but all was good. A couple of hours later my dad texted DH to ask when I would be leaving hospital. Half an hour after that he texted me the same thing. Neither of us were looking at our phones. 5 minutes after that he calls the hospital to give me the message that 'we love you'. He said he did that in case we didn't have our phones. I don't know if I'm overreacting but it felt like he just wanted some attention back on him and because HE needed an answer, it didn't matter about the fact that we might be busy in hospital with our newborn. A couple of days later my sister asks when they can visit. I say to give us a few days to adjust, and we could arrange something for this week. She says they have a lot of gifts to drop round, could they do that tomorrow? I say no as that would count as a visit, and I wasn't up for it. The next day, they all come round unannounced, and my dad has his camera in tow ready to photography my baby. When I had asked them not to! I got DH to answer the door and fend them off.

The problem is all this overstepping is so nice. Calling to say I love you and bringing over mountains of presents is lovely, how can I complain about that? But I just want them to listen to me when I say no thanks, I will decide. It's always about what they want, and I should be grateful. Is there anyway to deal with this without seeming like a stroppy teenager? I've never set boundaries with anyone before, it's a skill I need to learn! Grateful for any replies/advice.

Sorry that was so long, I hope it made sense!

Since having my own child I've felt angry towards them about my childhood, but don't know if this is something I want to address as I think they will just tell me I'm being a drama queen and upsetting everyone.

No good will come of it, only more bad. Address it yourself with a therapist.

You have boundaries by simply having them. You don't ask to be given them, they're already yours. You don't negotiate to be allowed to have boundaries, you don't need anybody's permission. You don't need to justify them, others aren't owed an explanation. Others don't have to like the boundaries or agree with them, they're entitled to their own opinions and their emotions are theirs to deal with. You don't have to dismantle your boundaries to make somebody else feel happier.

The way not to sound like a stroppy teen? Stay calm, dont whine, don't moan, don't argue. Be very, very firm. 'No' is a complete sentence.

Each and every time they overstep a boundary by the tiniest amount, you pull them up on it. They won't like that. When they inevitably get arsey, you treat them as you would any other rude person, pull them up on their behaviour and when they continue to be rude (which they almost certainly will) you walk away. Literally. Leave and go home.

If you're consistent about having boundaries and never giving an inch, which will mean at times stating unsmilingly and staring them down "I said No." then they might, over a long period of time, change their behaviour.

But it's unlikely they'll change their underlying thoughts, so you can expect a 'we'll humour your nonsense' type approach or an air of stroppiness about them as they unwillingly comply. It will never be how it was before but with boundaries, because how it was before meant no boundaries and that's what made them happy. They're never going to be happy with you having boundaries, the best you can hope for is that they'll tolerate it.

If their behaviour doesn't change or if it gets worse (and there's a high chance it could) you'll realistically have no choice but to go NC. I don't think many people choose it from the off, it's something that people realise has become a necessity. NC ends up being the only available option other than being abused.

Thanks @AmberIsACertainty, I guess it's like training a toddler! I'm a teacher so I guess I can put myself into that mode and try to see them as just people rather than my parents.

I think they will just tell me I'm being a drama queen and upsetting everyone
WindFlower92, they probably would and this would be projection...has he forgotten his ridiculous performances, a grown man dumping on his own child

I guess it's like training a toddler! I'm a teacher so I guess I can put myself into that mode and try to see them as just people rather than my parents
I'd suggest viewing them as children, I'm not sure what age group most fits their level of emotional maturity but whatever fits, see them as being that age and it's your job to manage* them accordingly

*by which I mean keep them under control in whatever way most benefits YOU, this is what they are doing to you, do it back but better so they dont realise

which will mean at times stating unsmilingly and staring them down "I said No."
I feel like this is a key thing, parents of adult children rely on their ability to pull rank such that the generation below feels unable to face them down. They try to prevent you from properly inhabiting your full adult self such that you never feel able to stand up to them and they always feel as if they are head of the family

The problem is all this overstepping is so nice
it doesnt take a genius to work out that one catches more flies with honey!

Hi Windflower
(This is from the headline post on this thread)
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

Personally speaking, I would have nothing to do with your parents going forward. At the very least you need to seriously limit all interaction with them.

Your dad is indeed an abuser and your mum has merely enabled him as his secondary abuser by putting her need for this man over you and your sibling. Its not your fault they are like this and besides which not all relatives are emotionally safe enough to be around. I also think they are trying to buy you off with gifts and such like; again there is an overstepping of boundaries here by them. People like your parents do not respect boundaries, nor do they apologise or even accept any responsibility for their actions. Its no point trying to address this with them because they will shut you down; address this instead with a therapist.

Remember always too that the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. That truism also applies to your parents too and your parents failed you and your sister abjectly.

WindFlower Its maybe a bit too soon to figure this out but I'd ask yourself what you hope to get out of remaining in contact with your parents? I had two specific reasons for not just walking away, I weighed up how important those things were and whether it was worth it to try to change my relative's behaviour. Given how long it took, how stressful it was and how those reasons I had have potentially turned out (ongoing and unpredictable situations), I'm not sure I'd do it again if I had my time over. It was a gamble, what's done is done, I'm very LC with all relatives now and the abuse has stopped. So my choices eventually worked out ok for me. I can't exactly recommend it as a course of action though because it was hell and I've possibly gained very little (in terms of my original reasons). Time will tell, but there's every possibility I'll be laying on my deathbed one day with none of my family even aware and thinking "why did I put myself through it all?".

So if your only aim in all this is for your parents to become loving reasonable people, forget it, because that's not going to happen. If you have some other reason then perhaps it's worth trying, but there's no guarantee of success.

Once you've started to realise things aren't right you can't unknow it. Whatever happens though, it's you who'll come through the other side of this. One way or another. It's not about them, it's about you.

Hello everyone.

I’ve not had a chance to catch up just yet - since my last post baby has arrived!

I’m actually hoping for some advice on here. Despite speaking to my parents about what boundaries I wanted to put into place ie no presents from my grandparents as they come with strings, they still shared my address with them . A parcel arrived yesterday and really threw me. When asked why they did that, the response was that it was putting my mother in a difficult position.

I really don’t know how to move forward from this. This isn’t the first time my (clearly communicated) wishes have been ignored by my parents as they didn’t fall in line with what they wanted. Although my parents aren’t narcs, they tolerate my grandparents bad behaviour and expect me to as well. I don’t think they like that I’m not happy to toe the line and put up with being treated like crap anymore as it puts them in an awkward position. Any suggestions? I’m all out of ideas all my parents keep reiterating is that they’re in the middle

all my parents keep reiterating is that they’re in the middle
dont bother speaking to them about anything important, keep them out of any loops, dont give them any info that they can use, dont tell them anything they dont need to know. Go over their heads.
Know that anything you tell them will immediately be passed to their 'overlords' because they are not able to break the obedience that they have to their parents.

Gin congratulations on the new baby . for you.

How upsetting that your parents shared your address. That's a low blow. One thing I've learned in life is that a secret isn't a secret any more if you tell someone. Few people can keep things to themselves. So I'd start rationing what you tell your parents, since they've proved their untrustworthiness. Be prepared, they won't like this either!

Be clear that they've broken your boundaries with them ("don't give my address to grandparents"). This is separate from what your grandparents have done.

With regards to your grandparents having your address, it's damage limitation time now. So, do you want to move home again? Do you need to get CCTV so you can see who's at the door and choose whether to answer it?

A gift is a good thing, for somebody! Give it to charity unopened and let someone else benefit from a no-strings gift, because the strings it came with are person-specific and someone else isn't you. This way you turn a bad thing into a good thing and spread a little happiness into the world. I'd ignore the subject unless specifically asked, at which point I'd be totally honest what happened to the gift "I didn't want it so I gave it to charity unopened". Others feelings about that aren't your problem.

Your parents are repeatedly and selfishly choosing to put their comfort above yours. Or to put it another way, they're happy to stab you in the back and throw you under the bus for the sake of a quiet life for themselves. Having told you this to your face and demonstrated it loudly with their actions, how do you feel about your parents and maintaining contact with them now?

Congratulations to you on the birth of your child💐

What egos wrote re your parents. They are showing you yet again they cannot be trusted nor relied upon.

Dispose of the parcel and do not acknowledge it in any way. After all gifts should come with ribbons and not strings.

Does anybody else have a dead parent and feels like the angst died with them? I'm only angry at the living parent. I think because they're the one expecting 'normality'. Well they did, they know they're not getting it now, just a light and fluffy version of normalcy (they don't get my secrets) and then only if they behave. The dead parent I'm indifferent to. I sometimes wonder why I'm not angry at them.

Thank you all for your responses and congratulations. Sleep deprivation is kicking in, but he’s cute so I don’t mind too much!

Ego they are definitely on an information diet from here on out, which is a shame, but there’s no other way.

Amber thankfully we are overseas so there is very little chance of door knocking in the future!

I am very tempted to give it away and not acknowledge, Attila. I suggested a donation to a refuge or SCBU unit back when we initially discussed how I wanted to limit contact going forward. Clearly this was ignored too

When I spoke to my parents, they said things along the lines of “well they’ve sent it now so it’s just how you deal with it. I’d like to think that you were brought up correctly...” i.e. you’d better send a thank you card or at least acknowledge the parcel.

It’s so hard as I thought I had a relatively good relationship with them before all this. It doesn’t come naturally to ignore contact, but as has been said, this has come with obligations. I asked for suggestions about moving forward but all they kept saying is that they didn’t want anyone to be upset by the situation. I’m already upset, so it’s not worked!

It’s just occurred to me that if I don’t acknowledge the parcel, they’ll probably send another anyway

Hi Gin melons

And if they do send another parcel, do not acknowledge that in any way either. Dispose of it via a local charity shop.

What your grandparents and with the aid of your parents are doing here is hoovering. Sending unwanted items is hoovering behaviour. Hoovering is a technique much loved and practiced by narcissists as an attempt to regain control and extract supply (attention and energy) from you. Do not fall for such hoovering attempts.

You don’t get expensive gifts from a narcissist because they think you are awesome; you get valuable gifts because they want you to continue to think that they are awesome.

@AmberIsACertainty I know what you mean. I didn’t always have the time easiest relationship with my dad - we were too similar - but the angst is gone. I don’t have the regrets either. I’m lucky, I know some people do.

@Ginmelons congratulations! Narcs will take any opportunity - usually, happy ones - to muscle their way back in. The presents are always about them, come with strings or show how good they are.

@WindFlower92 please don’t doubt your own opinions and gut feelings about your parents. I’ve watched my partner Mr Monkey wake up to how abused he was as a child - emotionally, physically - by his Hag of a mother and brothers. I think abuse is how YOU feel about it. Yes, it’s a sliding scale but you lived your life and you lived your childhood. You live with the results and the deep hurt.

The Hag - toxic coercive narc mother in law - has really made me laugh this evening.

Holiday-gate. We go tomorrow.

Narc Show Time this morning was pretty good as she was trying every trick in the book with Mr Monkey to piss on our six days away and get us to cancel. Fuck that, we’ve had 14 months of bubbling with the Bitch and I need to see my mum.

MM phoned her at 6pm.

Hag: “are you still going away?” 😂
Yes. Basically, the shit you pulled this morning is so obvious and pathetic and doesn’t induce ANY guilt.
“Oh. Can Monkey get the time off work? I never understood what she does.”

I don’t know whether that’s got … “all day” after it. Probably. Maybe, she thinks it’s wall to wall spa days and lunches out with the girls rather than hard slog and paying the majority of the bills (which I’m fine about) I’ve also been her DIL for 17 years so odd not to ‘remember’.

MM’s comment
“Well, I’ll ring you next week when I’m back” went down really well.
Nasty voice and her spiteful laugh: “oh, you will, will you?”

She knows that I’ve been on to her for the last two years, that MM has grasped the level of abuse and her power is gone. Some wise person on here said about an extinction outburst and this is exactly what it is. She knows people aren’t frightened of her now and she hates it and is rolling out all the narc tricks.

We intend to be so pissed at my mum’s that we can’t see our phones for being so blurry. Mine will be on silent.

One more sleep.

Thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat, I got a bit teary reading that!

@AmberIsACertainty I could gladly never see my dad again, but I don't think I want that with my mum, at least right now. I guess I feel sorry for her as I know she loves me and the only person she really has is my dad, and I don't want to leave him with her Although it's different now I have my children to consider, and I don't want them thinking any of this is normal, or for them to see me accepting this behaviour and accepting it themselves. A lot to unpick here I think. Therapy is definitely an option, but not sure how expensive it is? Will look into it when baby is a little older.

WindFlower.

Your mother though may never choose to leave her abuser. That is her choice and not one you can yourself influence at all. She has chosen to remain with your dad for her own (perhaps partly selfish based) reasons and in doing so chose him over your sister and you. She has certainly put him first. BTW do you know anything about her own childhood, I ask as that often gives clues.

You may want to consider having a look at NAPACs website when you are ready. napac.org.uk/.

You can teach your children better relationship lessons than the damaging ones you were yourself taught.

@WindFlower92 just reading your post, I too found that these issues came to a head after I had my first daughter. I began to understand how traumatic my own childhood actually was, and how much care children need. I also suddenly realised how much I love my children and how much I would do anything to protect them, whereas my parents (mother, mainly but also my absent father) had never protected me, had actually put me in danger, had brought me to unsafe places and put me in the care of very unsafe people, had made every single decision in their lives with my interests - the interests of their daughter - at the very bottom of the pile. I have tried for years to justify it - it was a different time (the 80s), standards were lower (not that low!), my mother had (has) mental health problems, my father never wanted children...etc...etc....but once I had my own I was less and less inclined to see it that way.
My number one priority is my children and breaking the cycle of trauma, dysfunction and basically terrible parenting that has come down through the generations. If that means hurting my own mothers feelings now I will do it. (my mother is someone who always, always talks about her hurt feelings and is, as I've mentioned here before the most skillful person ever at taking the victim stance).
But like you I was never sure whether to go the full no contact. For one thing, I feel terrible about severing the relationship my children have with their grandmother.
Covid gave me some much needed space to think and to realise how much better I felt when I wasn't in contact, when I didn't have that niggling dread at seeing her. Then lockdown ended and the pressure starting mounting again. I tried to put boundaries in place but it came across as anger, so I started to accept that anger and I'm in counselling now to try and deal with it.
She didn't listen to my requests, in written or spoken form, my talk of boundaries nor my subsequent anger expressed over my childhood trauma. It was, as it always is, "get over it", "get over yourself", "you're hurting my feelings". All I wanted was even the remotest acknowledgment, perhaps an "I understand what you're saying" or "yes I can see where you're coming from" but...nothing...
So things have gone from low contact to no contact.
I haven't spoken to her in weeks, nor seen her in months. It's very difficult because of the guilt I feel. My mother is on her own and has no friends or family. But here we are. And I'm committed to only having positive relationships in my life from now on.
Forty years have taught me I'm not actually responsible for my parents happiness and I only want people in my life who have a positive impact or who I at least don't get panic attacks when they're visiting! Not a big ask.
Anyway best of luck with it all

Please be assured that your guilt is misplaced openwaterswimming in truth we could say that she has gone no contact with you because the ball is in her court, you have tried to negotiate and she has refused to even come to the table.
She feels no guilt, neither should you, in effect you have (albeit tacitly) mutually agreed to not be in contact.

@openwaterswimming
Exactly this. I don’t have kids, but I would keep them as far as possible away from The Hag MIL. She probably wouldn’t be interested as she’s not in her grandsons in Scotland. I would probably move to Australia!
What I’ve observed is the children of abusers - whether physically, emotionally, sexually - are dealing with the pain, but doing their absolute best with their kids. Incredible self-awareness. Lots of Tiger mums on here determined to keep their crap parents at bay. Those abusive parents really want contact, it’s not about caring, it’s about prolonging the abuse, sucking in your children and continuing the abuse with them.

Not heard from The Hag today. Give her time. Lol.

MM will ring her at 6pm, we’re leaving very soon after and will not be contacting her again til next week. I have no doubt she will ring with some drama - control - and/or save a lot of spleen or “poor me” til Tuesday.

Little does she know but lots of trips are planned in the coming months 1) for us 2) for my mum & family and 3) to break her control and to communicate loud and clear ‘fuck right off’.

She can go back to servant No 1 (BIL) - that’s his choice.

I’m not spending my 50s dealing with her malignancy, and nor is MM.

The lesson I’ve taken from all of this is you only live once and jettison their shit to live your best life. Lots of kindness and wisdom here. Thank you.

What Egoes wrote here. Your guilt here re your mother is absolutely misplaced. If anyone should feel guilty here its your mother but she does not feel like that at all.

If a parent or relative is too toxic/difficult or otherwise too batshit for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your children too.
If you think about it as well its likely that your children do not have much if anything of a relationship with their grandmother anyway. Such people tend to use children as tools and also can over value or under value the relationship.

I would be very wary of any previously unknown health scares or tests or "flying monkeys"; all of which she may use against you going forward.

Hope you have a great holiday Monkey.