March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
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December 2013
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May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Luna

Your post is very heartfelt as well as achingly sad and again typical of life within a narcissistic family of origin.

Re your comment:-
"That's it really... Nothing else to add. Just that I obviously miss DF and I still feel so desperately sad for the little Luna, who still just wants her mum and doesn't understand what she has ever done to be treated like this".

Please get some therapy if you have not already started on this and do read "Will I ever be good enough" by Karyl McBride. Its one of the resources mentioned at the start of this thread. Its NOT your fault your parents are like this and both of them have failed you abjectly here. Quite apart from your mother your dad remains her enabler and bystander and he has acted really out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He failed to protect you from his wife's excesses of behaviours and threw you under the bus accordingly. He being weak too chose his wife ultimately over you and any of your siblings and he gets what he wants out of it. Practice self care and learn to love your own self.

"I think it is a slow grief, acknowledging that I have done my absolute best but we will never have the relationship I want and deserve and the one we have / have had is too toxic to be maintainable".

Correct. You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Women like your mother too cannot do relationships and it is really NOT possible to have a relationship with a narcissist (and her attendant enabler).

"Still after all of this time and everything I have learned, I still think it is my fault to an extent and that I should be doing something more or differently but I just can't - I have my own family now and I can't expose my kids to it"

You were but a child at the time; what more could you have done?. Nothing. Your misfortune was having these two as parents, they are not fit to be called that. The cycle of toxic dysfunction has stopped with you because you have chosen not to further subject your kids to the same abuse that was meted out to you from childhood. You are also very wise to keep your children well away from your mother and father. I would urge you to now put more mental distance between you and they as you already have physical distance.

This excerpt from Daphne Ouimet may help as well:-
emergingfrombroken.com/the-truth-about-being-told-to-get-over-it-and-let-it-go/

Be tired of feeling like you are the last person that matters!!.

@Iamaperiwinkle I think they’re talking BS re power of attorney. That doesn’t allow them to keep your stuff. I’d have a Google of what you can do: police, solicitors. I wouldn’t warn them in case they destroy your stuff. They are on a total power trip.

@Lavanderrose your world is like my world with my MIL. We are her servants and it really is about keeping my boundaries. I’m lucky as she’s not my mum - thank god, she’s bad enough as a MIL - and, with the support here, taking myself out of evil axis. Feel so much better.

@Lunalovepud
That’s a nightmare but you recognise all the signs and LC is the way to go. This page is BRILLIANT for support and finding your way.

The Hag has been really jolly - I don’t bother anymore with her so no idea what’s going on. Her “good mood” could change tomorrow and normal service of vileness resumed to cast a huge dark cloud. That’s how her moods affect other people as she can’t control her outbursts - or doesn’t want to - and we get it. I’ve felt much lighter in not dealing with her. MH is now my bipolar and not her. I don’t resent the bipolar any where as much as I loathe her.

I think I’m good example of LC and how helpful this is.

Having a bit of a nightmare tonight, not quite sure whether to break NC. Been upset since I read the message, I know that’s what she wants but I can’t help it. This is exactly the stuff I’ve been avoiding by going NC.

The mother (still NC) has been texting me as if nothings has happened for weeks, asking to come down and stay in hotel to spend time with my DC (I’ve still not answered). Today she’s sent a long awful message telling me how my MIL and DP talk about me to everyone, things like crap parenting choices, how apparently they ‘wish they could shake sense into me because I’m about to have a breakdown’ amongst other things and I’ve just had enough. I know that she’s just twisting things tonight to be vindictive and MIL and DP have both spoken to me and helped when I was actually struggling, it still seems so upsetting reading it all back and it’s making me question everything. They’ve obviously been speaking, MIL and Mother. I don’t know from MILs side because it’s late and I haven’t had a chance to speak with her about it yet. I don’t even know if I want to, it’s like my mother’s last ditch attempt to get some attention is throw a Grenade in my life. DP wants to talk to his mum tomorrow, it’s just creating such an enormous drama that I simply hate, I just want a quite life with no bother. I’m fighting every cell not to respond but that hasn’t stopped me typing out a response. Blocking her would probably be better for my mental health, I don’t know why I haven’t come to think of it.

Do Not Respond to Your Mothers message!!

That is what she wants, a response and to such disordered of thinking people that is the reward. No good to you will come from replying and any reply too, no matter how carefully worded, will be used against you. Look too at how she has used your MIL and DP in her message, she is out and out lying re them and you already know these people have been supportive. Do not give this message any more power than it already has, delete this poison.

She is also disrespecting your no contact position by contacting you anyway, such people really do not care about boundaries.

Indeed block all her ways of she being able to contact you. She has probably gone after Dps mother because your mother has felt she could be used here to get back at both you and your partner. Mil here needs to be aware that she could unwittingly become your mothers flying monkey.

@Iamaperiwinkle, POA takes AGES (I've just done it and it was over 8 weeks start to finish) so they're either lying or have been planning this for a while. Either way, it doesnt allow them to steal your things. It could be a gift though because although you don't have your stuff, every time you replace a bit it affirms you freedom and can act as a reminder to never be sucked in. If the POA has even agreed to be involved, they won't be on your side so all that will happen is you'll replace the same dynamic with them and be just as frustrated. Step away from your stuff and see it as tainted OR get the police involved to supervise the collection of your stuff- they are surprishly helpful in these situations but please don't give your FOO the chance to shred you emotionalit yet again.

@AttilaTheMeerkat that's so right and just what my NC 'D'M did. Later on when talking to my lovely MIL about it, she said she felt sorry for me as she saw right through what was happening but didn't want to upset me further by drawing attention to it. Other people, if they are good and decent, will see very very clearly what's going on.

Thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat that’s true you’re right, I’ve woken up less upset and more angry. Any further contact will just be worse and worse. It’s hard in a way because I know that she’ll lie/bend the truth to all she speaks to but I somehow need to over come that.

I’ve blocked her now, it feels like a big step gulp, I think that’s most sensible. The years

Oooh another ailment has now reared its head in DM. This time she’s been ‘up all night with heartburn’. Now I’ve had heartburn/indigestion and yes it’s not pleasant, but easily resolved with Gaviscon/Rennie, and probably cutting out alcohol. But that’s too easy isn’t it? So now I’m being asked what she should do about it, can she eat this or that. How the hell am I supposed to know? I’m not a fucking doctor am I? I just don’t know what I’m supposed to do about it? I’m trying my best to grey rock her, but it’s not working. In fact I’d say my lack of response is making it significantly worse, and I’m wondering what the hell she’s going to come down with next?

I’ve also noticed she never does this to other people. She might mention it in passing, but that’s it. In fact the other day I was sat with her and my DF and she started as soon as DF left the room to go to the loo. Then stopped when he came back, so it’s all aimed at me for some reason. It does however coincide somewhat with DB subtly pulling away from her, not massively but where as they used to do loads with Dparents they now prefer to do more stuff on their own. Obviously they’ve used lockdown as an excuse, but now restrictions are being lifted it’s becoming more obvious I think. I can’t say I blame them.

Cactus 1982 I've mentioned this before in another context, but have you come across the expression "extinction burst"? It's sometimes used in the context of weaning a wayward child off an undesirable habit, and parents are warned that the disgruntled child will often ramp up the behaviour before reluctantly admitting defeat. After all, the tantrum has done the trick up until now, so obviously a bigger tantrum is what is needed......Think of your frustration when some mechanical gadget stops delivering; is your first reaction to stab the "on" button a bit harder, maybe several times, before admitting defeat and resorting to logic or the instruction manual? I plead guilty to that one.
If you give in now, and reward her with attention, you're reinforcing the notion that "this behaviour works if I try hard enough".

@Cactus1982 @twoshedsjackson
This is exactly what The Hag does - up the ante.
She will change tactics to get what she wants.

I no longer engage (if I can possibly avoid it - most of the time I’m very successful now)

She’s just phoned Mr Monkey’s phone - he’s in the loo. I used to pick up, I don’t now. She used to ring my phone or the landline if she couldn’t reach him. I don’t answer so she’s stopped.

Doubtless, she will now be horrible. She ignores the fact his job is really stressful and he has IBS. I now sit upstairs whilst he rings. No intention to join in.

It’s ALL about her. Always has been. Always will be.

I’m so relieved she’s not my mother. It’s bad with the Hag but having my mother like that would be far worse. I really feel for people in that situation.

@FTEngineerM brilliant! Well done.

@WhatwouldAdeledo people can see through it. Often it’s the people closest to it who can’t (or don’t want to believe it because it’s too horrible to think your family are like that. I also think people get brainwashed.) Mr Monkey now sees her for what his mother is and my mum is shocked by her behaviour.

I've noticed a pattern in my life.
I believe DM is what you would call a vulnerable narcissist.
The hooks DM uses are offers of small things to me or DD. Usually those that came to her free and/or she wants rid of. So for example, things left at work by others, chocolates she won't eat, re-gifting toiletries she doesn't like.
And conversely she won't buy anything for us as a gift, which would involve finding out what we want or need, even small and come at cost.

Last week I had 2 messages offering junk food for DD left at DM's work. I was busy so honestly overlooked both. DD has a certain amount of Easter chocolate left and is already ignoring it, and in a phase where I'm struggling to get her to eat proper food.
Yesterday DM offered a small book that she has for DD. It was phrased as, will you come to ours or we shall be visiting you - not exactly that but it wasn't a question.
I replied to say we're busy this weekend but she could drop it through our post box.
The reply then, was that no it's for DD's use at her house only (in which case, why force a visit on us for it?)

The pattern is I'm supposed to jump when she calls (the food hook), if I don't DM ups the ante and begins to make it about 'giving things to 'her ' granddaughter' (though note, not giving at cost) - which takes me, her daughter out of the equation. The next step will be passive aggressive messages indicating I'm preventing her having rightful access to DD.

When DM does see DD she practically ignores her - puts her in front non stop cartoons with junk food. Then infers she's doing me a massive favour by looking after her. It's all about DM, not DD.

At which point I go low contact.. And she uses the hook again.

Is this making sense? We actually are busy, all the kids clubs have started up again and DD is so excited, she couldn't care less about seeing DM (as doesn't get much from it), so I'm not harming DD by focusing on our own stuff.

DM doesn't seem to do this with other grandchildren. I'm the scapegoat child and have been bad at handling DM all my life which is why I think this silliness is ongoing in my early 40s.

@TinyTroubleMaker there’s so much of that message that I saw in my own mother, thank you for writing it down, it seems there are many that act the same. 4 days after giving birth to DC1 it was my birthday so she’d sent down a massive parcel of clothes 2 sizes too small and not BF friendly, then insisted I took DC out in the rain knocking on houses to find this parcel that was marked as delivered but not at my house. Needless to say she called me a ‘horrid child’ when I said no.

I don’t understand why they do it, it seems for their own benefit entirely like you say, sgg he e often sends things to DBro too and if she’s checked tracking and it’s been signed for, woe be tied he better thank her quickly or she’ll be on the phone asking why you haven’t thanked her.

If DC is excited for all the kids clubs then you’re doing the right thing.

Might sound weird but now I've seen the pattern, it almost makes it easier. I can think 'oh we're in step 1, step 2 is coming next - oh look there it is'.

Tiny

You have to drop the rope here she holds out to you.

You are her scapegoat for all her inherent ills and as a result your child is also scapegoated. That is also why she is ignored and given crap gifts. Your mother has no empathy or insight here so she tries to give you unwanted foodstuffs or some other crap item no longer wanted by anyone.

Your mother is not an emotionally safe person to be at all around and she will harm your daughter in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed by her. Am glad to read your DD has her kids clubs, keep up with those and keep both you and she well away from your toxic mother. It does you nor your child any favours to be in contact with someone this disordered of thinking. It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

@TinyTroubleMaker it isn't weird at all. Because you've seen the pattern, the moves don't catch you off guard; you've seen through her, so you're mentally primed to resist more effectively. As Monkeyfrom Manchester says of her travails with The Hag, it's much more manageable since she worked out what was going on, and more importantly for the mental health of her DH, he "sees her for what she is".
How many times have you thought of that snappy riposte five minutes after the dispute? Now, forewarned is forearmed.

Quick post on here as I think others will understand. Saw parents briefly as lockdown has eased and was Dd birthday. I dont feel i can say no to seeing my parents on a birthday. Have really limited contact for some time now due to alot of ongoing..antics..... Pretty much the first thing my mum said when i took the kids to meet with her and my dad was "you just need to lighten up and stop being so down on us and everything so we can talk properly"... And immediately starts reeling off a list of things that i should have been doing in lockdown and financial questions etc. Im now being sent messages about when she plans to call round and that I "absolutely must start talking and meeting up" with them again. Argh. The weird boost lockdown gave me in terms of supporting low contact has faded. Knew it wouldn't last and i need a plan in place now to cope with the inevitable bombardment of messages etc. but bloody actual hell!!!

You don't HAVE to do anything remember.

"I dont feel i can say no to seeing my parents on a birthday".

Why not?. I know why however, its because you are still very much mired in your own FOG re them, three buttons they installed in you personally. You have been trained from an early age to serve her (your dad is her enabler and secondary abuser) to put your own self last with them first. Women like this cannot do relationships at all so the men in their lives are either just like them too or are otherwise discarded. Your dad has also abjectly failed you as a parent too.

"Have really limited contact for some time now due to alot of ongoing..antics....."

Given your parents past shocking behaviours describing that just as ongoing antics is minimising the unacceptable.

Like many such toxic people they never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Indeed your mother has come at you with another laundry list of your supposed faults and shortcomings. These types always but always make it out to be the other persons fault, its never their fault. They are patently not interested in resolving anything here by talking; they just want you to shut up, get back in your box and do as you're told. Therefore talking to them at all is a waste of time.

You both need to stay away from them; your child being at all around them will do her no favours. All she will end up seeing is her grandparents denigrating and otherwise disrespecting you as her mother.

Deal with the tirade of incessent future messages by further blocking all their ways of being able to contact you. If they come to the house repeatedly consider reporting them for harassment. They may then start using "flying monkeys" i.e well meaning but easily manipulated friends and or other relatives to do their bidding for them. Such people also are not interested in hearing your side of things so their opinion should be ignored too.

I now have the next message in the pattern from DM which is (despite saying we are busy and why we aren't visiting, which was absolutely true)... why haven't we visited etc. Once I see it in this way it's so clear DM is searching for a way to make herself a victim, and me an aggressor, to create drama.

I had pre booked tickets to the zoo, DD had a fab time. Nothing 'against' DM. Just us living our lives.

I notice too there is nothing in the message that there could be - 'haven't heard from you so are you OK, do you need anything'.

@TinyTroubleMaker often they don't even need to search too hard, they just make up a story constantly where they are the victim and someone else, often the scapegoat(s), is/are the aggressor(s). If there are no facts to be presented or twisted in this way, my own mother will just lie to herself and her friends. You just have to trust that they will believe you.

Sorry to double-post in one day, just about personal situation.
So I've mostly moved in to my new place, I'm pretty much unpacked apart from the last fiddly bits, it's going fine, feeling pretty lonely but generally OK.
The main problem is that work have signed me off again because after the entire palaver involving the police, my abusive parents, a hotel room, an airBnB and a flat move at three days' notice, I took the amount of sleeping pills I was prescribed in hospital which apparently constituted an overdose, so they have said I am not fit for work any more, and I literally don't know how to cope with it. For a start I need my full wage for the rent, but more than that it feels like work have just taken over where my parents left off telling me I can't do anything and I'm useless. I'm terribly alone without my colleagues and I just feel absolutely useless, pointless, worthless. I was so excited to get back to work and now they will all hate me. My own GP has said I'm fit to return from today but they want me to talk to their GP and potentially take another month off and I literally can't stand it. I haven't even done anything unhealthy to cope but I went for a run yesterday and afterwards instead of feeling better just started sobbing my eyes out in public in broad daylight! HR said they would ring today to tell me when I can get assessed but they haven't yet and I'm just sitting here crying again. I love my job and wanted it to be a route to professional qualification as a lawyer and I know they liked having me back after I was signed off but the prospect of being signed off even for another sodding day is making me actually suicidal. I've just done one of the hardest things in my life after six of the worst months in my life trapped with abusive people and to take my work away, again, feels like the worst punishment. I'm on the verge of resigning and looking for a supermarket job or something, I feel that desperate. Does anyone know of anyone or any organisation who can advocate for me against occupational health/HR? I will ask my therapist if she can help tomorrow but I just need to be back at work. It's so stupid because it's the healthiest I've ever been. I've been at work throwing up, self harming, the day after suicide attempts, I've worked from a hospital bed, I've worked after my parents have been screaming all night or locked me out and I've had no sleep and I've done a good job. Sorry for the rant.

Oh @CeciledeVolanges that sounds shit! Sorry I can't write a long message now, but just to say that I'm sure your colleagues don't hate you and you have done so amazingly well, please don't be so hard on yourself. Am I right in thinking you work for a university? Are you part of the Union? If not, join, as they could probably help you. Xx

Sorry about my long message yesterday, everyone. I am spending roughly half of every day efficient and cheerful and the other half sobbing my eyes out!

Hello everyone. I am having a tough time and I'm looking for some advice.

Both my parents have abusive tendencies, I think there is certainly some serious mental health problems involved. It may be a case of disordered personalities too. In a way, it doesn't matter, they aren't interested in changing and I went NC 2 years ago.

What is still extremely hard for me to deal with is why I did not walk away sooner. I am mid 30s. I cannot get my head around how I allowed two people who on occasion have displayed totally crazy behaviour to dominate and damage my life to the actually quite horrendous extent it has been.

I feel like I must be mad, or stupid or just not destined to have a proper life. It's like I never had a chance because I am somehow wired to just keep sticking my hand into a tiger's mouth, just repeating the same action until I was destroyed without ever learning and having any self preservation to do something about it.

It's like my self preservation, self determination, decision making, self esteem, confidence, self worth...all of that...just got slowly edited out of me.

Tbh if it had just been my dad I would have walked away at 16 and never looked back. However he was always so horrible to my mum, and I felt far worse for her because she was stuck with him. In trying to stick around and make things better for her I exposed myself to years and years of my dad being not just abusive but sabotaging my life. My mum is highly manipulative and lies hand over fist. This sort of makes me feel even dumber for not realising and standing up for myself. My mum basically would throw me under the bus all the time so my dad would be focused on me and not her. I actually agreed to this sometimes too, like if she did something he wouldn't like I'd tell her to blame me. She would not only take me up on that but exaggerate the story when she told him to make me look worse and then try and tell me that it was always me who had actually made the mistake, gaslighting basically, she is a pro at that.

The thing is, after I finished uni I moved back in with my parents.

This was a huge mistake. At the time lots of my friends from uni moved back home, intending to do that for a few months while they worked/saved up and sorted out what they were going to do. I stupidly thought it was fine for me to do the same and my mum was of course very keen for me to do so.

It was alright at first but very quickly I had no bank card, no passport, was prevented from working/leaving the house and all the while screamed at for being stupid/fat/useless/embarrassing/slag/cunt on and on because I didn't have a job. I found ways to earn money online and used paypal to send money to friends bank accounts who could then send me the cash. etc.

I did make various efforts to move out which my mum sabotaged and managed to make me feel like I was mad/stupid for these plans. I eventually did leave but it was not easy and although I never intended NC my mum's control and manipulation went nuclear and in the end I just couldn't face it all.

I know there are lots of posts on MN where someone has a story like mine involving a romantic partner but finally escaping from your parents house in your 30s is just crazy. This is not a cultural thing either by the way.

If I could move past this I think I could move forward from where I am. I am just stuck. I have been in therapy on and off since I was a young teenager, it's not a magic wand obviously and I don't respond well to any kind of "you're a strong, wonderful person and you need to embrace life". I'm really cynical and distrustful, anything I perceive as unrealistic optimism just shuts me down. I have found these forums and the books recommended on them much more useful.

Just wondering if anyone has overcome similar?

@armadilla2 welcome, and sorry that you have to be here, but glad you have made it to this thread, it is full of wonderful and wise people. Not counting myself among them, but I can see so many similarities between you and me. I'm a little younger than you but it sounds like I've repeated the cycle of moving out and being drawn back in several more times, as well as having quite a similar family atmosphere, so I just wanted to pass on a couple of things which you may have heard before but may help:
Your parents' behaviour amounts to training and conditioning you to play a certain role in their lives, in their families. I'm sure you know all about the victim-aggressor-rescuer triangle and dynamics like that, but it's necessary for some people to have someone around to scapegoat, take things out on, provide various services and so on. It's not your fault that you have behaved according to that conditioning. It's so powerful and backed up by so many societal ideas about what your family should be to you and what you should be to your family. It's a sign of enormous strength that you are taking steps to develop your own independent life and identity.
Therapy isn't a magic wand. It can be so useful but just think of it as being given treatment for a disease while living in an environment which is totally saturated with the bacterium or virus that causes the disease. Hopefully the tools and insights you've gained will become a lot more useful now.
I was talking to my therapist yesterday about the exact issue of having taken such a long time to move out. She told me that if I was telling her what I was telling her and was in my mid-40s, I would still be doing well. It's a huge achievement to do what you are doing. If you go back to the analogy of an abusive marriage, people take decades to leave those sometimes and go back multiple times and while some ignorant and unempathetic idiots might ask "why didn't she leave", the second you understand why, it's impossible to blame anyone who doesn't leave or stays.
Two really useful tools: acceptance and mindfulness. I use these all the time - with varying degrees of success I admit - but it's basically about accepting that some things just are how they are, wishing them away or trying to change what you can't is just going to make you miserable, and live in the present moment, looking ahead. Nobody can change the past, so it's a waste of time trying to, but we have the present and it sounds like your present is a lot better than your past was. Mindfulness really helps me be in the present.
This might sound callous or mean, but that means that you need to give your emotions and energy to the present, and to yourself. If you're always asking yourself why you didn't walk away sooner from what was an effective and destructive psychological abuse trap, you're giving your energy and your emotions to your parents, who do not deserve it. You do.
I don't know if this will help you to read, but from a similar position I took a slightly different route, and threw myself into the most time-intensive, highly-paid job I could straight out of university just to get away from my parents and to have an excuse and the means to live alone. It didn't work and I ended up returning to live with them multiple times for many reasons. I'm only just getting out again (as you can probably tell from my multiple hysterical posts!)
Someone will probably come along and say something more helpful soon, but best of luck, and trust yourself, you are doing the right thing and probably doing it amazingly.