March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
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May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Peach

How did your mother gain access to your back garden with the sandpit?. I think she really came around your house on the premise of bringing this item in order to have a nose around and used said sandpit as an excuse. Your parents must not have any access to your home or garden going forward.

I would strongly urge you to keep your children as well as your own self well away from her going forward. Do you really want your parent spending time with your children knowing their potential for harm?
Do you want the same person that abused you to have a shot at your children?. Your narcissistic parent will not be warm and supportive of your parenting. Why would she? Your narcissistic parent has never supported you—unless it served her ends.

Your sweet little innocent children are all too tempting targets for your narcissistic parent (and associated enabler in the shape of your dad). Children, especially young ones, are trusting of grandmas and grandpas. They’ll listen to the lies your parent tells them about you. Lies about how terrible you’ve been to them. Your parent will weave tales about what a horrible child you were and how they gave you nothing but love while sacrificing their own welfare for you.

What they will do is turn your children against you.

But that is not all the danger. Children learn by watching and listening to the adults in their lives. Your child will learn from their narcissistic grandparent how to be manipulative, deceitful, and selfish.
And, unless you’re present every minute your parent is with your kids, you will not know it’s going on. Not until your children start to defy you and call you the same names your parents called you as a child, that is.

You should consider your parent to be a well of toxicity. Just as you would protect your children from a toxic spill, you should shelter them from your parents. No good will come to either your own self and your children if they are allowed a relationship.

And you should feel no guilt. It’s purely good parenting.

There is plenty of good information online about NPD and I would urge you also to look at the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website.

People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder need external validation to keep their self-esteem high. Their self-esteem is like a balloon that will slowly drop to the ground unless someone is around to give it a tap back up on a regular basis. This need for external validation makes narcissists acutely conscious of whatever their social group regards as high in status. This need for external validation creates a situation in which many female narcissists feel compelled to try to fit the current ideal image of what a high status beautiful woman “should” look like. In some groups, being thin has become synonymous with feminine beauty and being fat synonymous with being unappealing and unattractive.

If feminine thinness is seen as the height of desirability, being fat is seen as disgusting and the least desirable physical attribute a woman can have. Narcissistic men and women who subscribe to this particular status hierarchy are likely to become hyper aware of the relative fatness or thinness of every female they see.

Some narcissistic mothers are hyper-aware of their daughter’s weight and how closely her body fits their social group’s ideal. These mothers are convinced that if their daughters are pudgier than the current ideal, they will not be attractive to the men in their group and will be looked down on.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Peach

How did your mother gain access to your back garden with the sandpit?. I think she really came around your house on the premise of bringing this item in order to have a nose around and used said sandpit as an excuse. Your parents must not have any access to your home or garden going forward.

I would strongly urge you to keep your children as well as your own self well away from her going forward. Do you really want your parent spending time with your children knowing their potential for harm?
Do you want the same person that abused you to have a shot at your children?. Your narcissistic parent will not be warm and supportive of your parenting. Why would she? Your narcissistic parent has never supported you—unless it served her ends.

Your sweet little innocent children are all too tempting targets for your narcissistic parent (and associated enabler in the shape of your dad). Children, especially young ones, are trusting of grandmas and grandpas. They’ll listen to the lies your parent tells them about you. Lies about how terrible you’ve been to them. Your parent will weave tales about what a horrible child you were and how they gave you nothing but love while sacrificing their own welfare for you.

What they will do is turn your children against you.

But that is not all the danger. Children learn by watching and listening to the adults in their lives. Your child will learn from their narcissistic grandparent how to be manipulative, deceitful, and selfish.
And, unless you’re present every minute your parent is with your kids, you will not know it’s going on. Not until your children start to defy you and call you the same names your parents called you as a child, that is.

You should consider your parent to be a well of toxicity. Just as you would protect your children from a toxic spill, you should shelter them from your parents. No good will come to either your own self and your children if they are allowed a relationship.

And you should feel no guilt. It’s purely good parenting.

There is plenty of good information online about NPD and I would urge you also to look at the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website.

People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder need external validation to keep their self-esteem high. Their self-esteem is like a balloon that will slowly drop to the ground unless someone is around to give it a tap back up on a regular basis. This need for external validation makes narcissists acutely conscious of whatever their social group regards as high in status. This need for external validation creates a situation in which many female narcissists feel compelled to try to fit the current ideal image of what a high status beautiful woman “should” look like. In some groups, being thin has become synonymous with feminine beauty and being fat synonymous with being unappealing and unattractive.

If feminine thinness is seen as the height of desirability, being fat is seen as disgusting and the least desirable physical attribute a woman can have. Narcissistic men and women who subscribe to this particular status hierarchy are likely to become hyper aware of the relative fatness or thinness of every female they see.

Some narcissistic mothers are hyper-aware of their daughter’s weight and how closely her body fits their social group’s ideal. These mothers are convinced that if their daughters are pudgier than the current ideal, they will not be attractive to the men in their group and will be looked down on.

Everything you say is so incredibly accurate and insightful, thank you.

Have decided to keep contact minimal. You are probably right about the sandpit. She purposefully goes out of her way to finds things wrong. I’ve recently had my garden done, it’s a bee build house and when she dropped something else round she made comments about how the turf isn’t quite level and I need to tell him to come and sort it and if I’d got a proper company in... he is a proper company... she makes me feel inadequate and like I’m doing something wrong. Because in all honest I couldn’t care less if the tug of completely flat, I just want a garden for my children to play in. But obviously my decisions are wrong.

I have a problem where I feel she will judge me for telling her the truth so I don’t, I lie, and it comes out without me even thinking. And I hate it, but she is always so critical.

I’ve not been well these last few days and she said she would come and pick things up because she can’t possibly leave the children in that mess. A few books on the floor and some crisp packets. She makes out like I live in some disgusting hovel, whereas to me and most normal people it is just a lived in family home. Okay my bedroom needs some work but I don’t have a wardrobe yet and therefore things are still in boxes/baskets.

It’s just exhausting. She always thinks she is right. She fell out with me last week because I told her I am sick of talking about my weight and she mentions it every day. Which she does. She then stormed off saying she was offended and appalled that I could say that. My dad came afterwards and I told him and he just looked at me and said “she does mention it every day”. Yes. I know. That’s why I said it.

Why did I move closer?! Jesus. Probably because she’s been manipulative and guilt tripping me about how far away I am for the last 14 years. Telling me the children are missing out...

God I could write a book about her, I really could.

Periwinkle and Peach

It helps to realise that the horrible criticism and carping is merely their offloading their own toxicity onto you so they feel better. You don’t deserve any of it. The trouble is you’re so used to being the sludge receptacle you don’t question it.

Now is the time to question it and to see how inappropriate it is and that you have the right to refuse.

Cecile. you are so brave - good for you for doing it. Please do pat yourself on the back as it’s hard enough to claim independence, without the drag your parents have been putting on you. You are amazing!

@PeachGoddess I'm so sorry, your mother sounds like she's treating you dreadfully. One thing to hold on to is that what you know doesn't have to be limited to what you experience from your own mother. You can create some of your own experiences as well, and the fact that you know you don't want to behave like your mother gives you such an advantage (morally if nothing else).

So big news everyone - I drove the rented car on the motorway to my parents' this morning, picked up a load of stuff and drove back! I am super proud of myself for that. On the other hand, my dad has promptly picked up the second load of stuff and taken it to their other house (nearer me) apparently to avoid me and my mother ending up in the same house but I'm not sure whether he's got all the stuff and also he did it despite me asking him not to specifically and it means I won't have done the two trips by myself, so it feels pretty undermining.

Anyway, after this weekend I will be moved in, settled in, I'll have done the majority of the Twelve Steps and ready to continue with the rest of my life!

Thank you so much everyone for being so supportive. It feels really bad to be leaving my parents in such a bad place, to be leaving their house, to be cutting contact again, but I'm doing it.

I try to keep two things in my head - one is "the best revenge is to live a good life" which is self-explanatory but I'm so determined to be well, stay well and succeed while living independently. The other is that bit after Harry has been possessed in the fifth film(!) and he says "you're the weak one, and you'll never know love. I feel sorry for you" and I just keep repeating that to myself about my mother. As a teenager I actually branded myself with that word because I felt so deeply that it described me. But no more!

@CeciledeVolanges
That’s absolutely brilliant news. Keep going, no regrets. They don’t deserve your sympathy. Well done!

@CeciledeVolanges that is amazing news. Well done to you! They have spent years trying to make you feel useless and you have just completely proved them wrong. As for your father picking up the rest of your stuff...yes it's annoying and undermining, but just think of it as saving you a trip and not having to see your awful mother. And try not to feel bad about leaving them in a bad place...you haven't. That's just what they want you to think. So very proud of you for getting out, and for getting in a car! Xx

Since going NC with my mother, and having a clear head to actually think straight, I've realised just how much her treatment of me has affected every single aspect of my life: how I've become a people pleaser, always apologising for things out of my control, or allowing others to use and walk all over me. It's affected my work life, relationships, everything. I also noticed on here recently someone (sorry can't remember name off the top of my head) saying they felt guilty for not reporting their useless therapist as they may have treated other people the same way. It just goes to show that we've all been conditioned to feel guilty for things which aren't our fault. It's a heavy weight to carry, and takes a long, long time to shift.

@PeachGoddess your mother sounds truly vile. And I have to say somewhat similar to mine. We also moved closer (although still a 40min drive away) because our life would have been made hell if we'd moved further away (although now we're considering a different country!). I found what @AttilaTheMeerkat said about the fat thing really interesting. I had the opposite when I was younger...I was tall and skinny (but ate like a horse) and she would constantly be poking me and telling me that "all" her friends thought I was anorexic. She's always commented on my appearance, and I never seem to conform to how she thinks I should look. Always worried about what other people think. Same with herself...always freaking out if the wind blew her hair the wrong way because she thought people were always looking at her. She also always would say "what's SHE staring at" if someone glanced at her, but if it was a man it would be "oh look, I've pulled". It's sad and embarrassing. I've digressed somewhat, but wanted to add that if you lost weight, she would still find fault ...would probably tell you you looked ill or too thin. You can never win with these people.

My mother is also the same as yours WRT the house. I've never been particularly tidy, but she'd come round to clean, and make all the usual bitchy comments..and say things like "I'd be so embarrassed" and the classic "how can I invite MY friends here?" You can't, because it's not your house!

They're all a bunch of crazy arseholes. And do try to shut her out of your life. You'll feel so much better. X

@CantTrampoline thank you. Even when I had a cleaner she would find fault. And my cleaner was incredible.

If I were thin she would be criticising my dress sense! In my thinner days I tended towards a 1950s pin up type style, now I’m fat I wear leggings and other things I hate. She once said “why would I take style advice from someone like you?” She asked me if she should tuck a t-shirt in and I said no and that was the response. And once when I mentioned that the children would love it if we all went away together she sneered at me and said “I go on holiday to get away from people like you” ie people with tattoos.

I’m now 13 mins away from my mum, not an hour and a half like before. I’ve locked the back gate today so she can’t access it and not made contact all day. My LG (age2) has been asking to speak to my parents all day.

When I was ill on Thursday and had a small panic because I never feel faint or have a temp of 39.7 and asked one of my colleagues to come round as I was struggling to get my BP monitor to read with one arm, dizziness, children and my husband flapping about. My mum said “don’t let see the squalor you live in” if she saw other people’s houses, like I do, she would lose her mind.

I’m just trying to live my life. But I cannot do anything right. She is not this bad with my sister, who is thin and lives alone with her dog. She never has been.

God, no wonder my therapist encouraged so many sessions 😂 I could go on forever.

Thank you all for your lovely supportive comments and home truths. It’s all bit all over the place in my head but is appreciated. Just need to be strong now.

Ah @PeachGoddess she truly is a bitch. Like you said, nothing you do would be right. I also love the pin-up style, but I'm a bit boy shaped, so I can't do the skirts etc, but I think you should get back into it. There are so many fabulous bigger women who embrace the look, and they look fantastic. I bet you would too... especially with your tats. (I'm saving up for a half- sleeve!)
Well done on locking her out. And your daughter asking about her constantly will pass.

Must dash... trying to get mine to go to bed!
Ps...hope you feel better soon. X

I’ve gone NC with my DF but still have a lot to do with my DM especially since helping her through her recent divorce. Throughout all this I’ve finally realised how damaging she’s been throughout my entire life, the constant guilt tripping, the neediness, the “woe me”’attitude. She’s used me as her personal therapist through my childhood, teenage years and now adult years. I feel so uncomfortable in her presence. It’s like she’s almost a dementor taking every ounce of fun or pleasure from life. I can never relax around her, as I have to be constantly intuned to her feelings, always on edge and watchful so as not to set her off. Now she’s decided to move on to my estate and I feel sick with worry. But most of all angry... that I can’t just concentrate on myself in life.

Lavanderrose

Your mother has also abjectly failed you as a parent here. Like many narcissistic people she gave you the role of confidant from a young age and she is like you state a dementor who will suck all the life out of you. She keeps you also trapped by using your FOG here re her - fear, obligation and guilt. Three legacies and unwanted buttons that she installed in you.

Is she really going ahead with moving onto your estate or is this still pie in the sky?. I think that ultimately you will need to do what your did re dad and also remove yourself from mother's life altogether by having no contact. It is really not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking and women like your mother cannot do relationships at all.

@Lavanderrose my mother has always threatened to move close to me, whenever I have moved house. Her phrase was always "are you going to stay there forever, as I don't want to keep having to move". I've always said I couldn't guarantee I wouldn't move again, and that seemed to stop her. Maybe you should tell your mother you're going to be moving in a year, and then cut all contact. You're right, it's like being under constant surveillance isn't it? They always want to know where you are, what you're doing, and don't want you to have any independence.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks for your very wise words! She’s sold her house and is in the midst of putting a reservation down on a property next to me! I can’t afford to move.

lavender
That’s a nightmare. How entitled she must feel to be able to settle herself like a cuckoo in the nest, in YOUR space. And it seems she thinks it is your responsibility to now take care of her emotional needs as you have all your life. She doesn’t sound like the sort of woman who will make a life for herself. Would she join things? Meet new people her own age? Or expect you to do it all?
If the worst comes to the worst, perhaps you could rent your house out and rent something for you miles away. You could say you’re thinking of doing that anyway for work/possible future school/anything else you can think of, to try and deter her from the reservation. Could she move to a retirement village or something similar, instead?

Trouble is, even if you had the courage to say you don’t want her near you, she’d probably do it anyway unless you can think of a very good reason to put her off. Useless to tell you to make strong boundaries as they don’t do boundaries unless you’re really strong and she’s already groomed you to make sure you aren’t.

I like the dementor analogy- so true. From what you say she will be a millstone around your neck for life unless you can extricate yourself.

@Veronica12345 She doesn’t sound like the sort of woman who will make a life for herself

Thanks for your response, you’ve hit the nail on the head!! When she had a mental health breakdown after her divorce to my DF I supported her to get well again and she came to live with me for a little while ( which was traumatic and very difficult for me). Since then she’s become even more obsessed with being next to me, even choosing a flat next to me that doesn’t meet her needs over a Lovely house (in the same area) just to be close.

She’s not at all able to make a life for herself. My DF cheated on her in their marriage and he did some pretty awful things to me and my sister and not once did she consider leaving him. Now they are separated she says she wants a friendship with him lol.

Anyway it got to the point where I was doing shopping for her, having to accept multiple phone calls a day, act as her therapist, listen to her cry and try and make her feel better, deal with her anger and moods, her depression, co dependency, everything is always about her and her feelings, she acts as if I am an empty vessel that’s just there to make her feel better . Like her guilt tripping is constant. Suddenly I realised how utterly unhealthy and toxic this woman is.

Since then I’ve tried to enforce boundaries, no more daily telephone calls, no shopping. But she keeps reeling me back in with her “woe me” attitude, saying she’s got no money left, etr. I’ve told her many times that I don’t want her living next to me, she says “oh dear” and that’s all. Doesn’t care at all what I want. It’s so hard because she’s really fragile since her mental health episode that I have to be careful of what I say and do.

Hi everyone. Lotf of wise comments on this thread. I offered to go and pick up the rest of my stuff this afternoon by text. My father immediately phoned me and was off the wall with rage. Told me I couldn't go today or any other time. Told me an email would follow. Instead I go a text saying how ill they are and I'm not welcome and neither are the children. EVER. There say they have given POA (?) to another family member and given me their number saying to contact the other family member if I want to contact them. They claim their health is in the balance due to this last year. They then said again not to contact them.

So they still have my stuff and now I can't contact them. WTAF?

Hi all.

Well, it's been a while. ;-)

Brief background - DM is a narc, typical stuff throughout my life - just read the 'daughters with narc mothers' website - I could have written it. ;-) Alcohol featured highly.

Long period of estrangement when I was a teenager due to me being a 'slut' because a boy liked me, which left me brokenhearted. Years of fat shaming, slut shaming (even though her complete lack of boundaries left me very awkward and reluctant sexually - I certainly wasn't a slut when I was younger)... DF is lovely but an enabler.

Recent relationship has existed on a foundation of me finally being thin / successful / good enough for her. I have given her so many bragging rights, although I obviously didn't see that at the time and thought her motivation was pride in what I was doing rather than pride at how it reflected on her. SOOOOO much 'pick me' energy from me, unfortunately.

I have given her the benefit of the doubt so many times, from when she asked my husband, in front of me, the night before our wedding whether or not he was actually going to turn up the next day, to when she made judgements about my parenting without even knowing my kids, found fault with me and discussed it openly with others, to the endless fat shaming, habitual and compulsive lying - well - you know the drill.

Anyway. She lives abroad and I haven't seen her face to face for years but we were keeping in touch regularly.

She hasn't met my youngest two children as she doesn't like to travel, and I can't with 3 little kids, two of whom are SEN and all of whom get motion sickness etc.

She's not really interested in them anyway for the most part unless it is on a very basic level - she sends presents and things for birthdays and Christmas but nothing day to day. I think deep down, she also feels embarrassed, although she would never admit it - that now I am a mother myself, her failings are even more apparent and obvious than they were before.

There have been a few things that happened in recent years that I have brushed under the carpet but found really hurtful, including her forgetting my birthday on a number of occasions - one significant birthday - and that was really hurtful to me.

On one occasion I had a trial of a haircut for my wedding and was allergic to the product meaning an uncomfortable allergic reaction and she said "It's your own fault for being vain enough to have it done in the first place".

When I was pregnant we went to stay with her for a week and she was AWFUL to me the whole time, to the extent that my husband wanted to leave after a couple of days and come home early. Calling me names when she was drunk, saying I had always been difficult and hateful and cold and spiteful... She also said that DF had warned DH about me and how difficult I was when we first met because it was only fair that he knew what he was getting himself into... DH categorically says that conversation didn't happen, so it was just another one of her control games.

Anyway - as she wasn't getting a reaction to the usual and frequent barbs she was sending out when we spoke over Facetime, (I was glossing over them for the sake of DF) she did one online, which was just the straw that broke the camels back for me. It was just really public, snotty and uncalled for. I messaged her to tell her I was upset (no point having a conversation because... Well - you know.) and to clarify my POV but heard nothing. For months. She has stayed on my socials so I thought I would leave it as that, naturally LC. I have made the effort to contact her a few times and was ignored so left the ball in her court.

She has fired the odd warning shot across the bow, you know, the memes that anyone from a normal family would think are life affirming and positive but which you know are aimed at you and your reluctance to comply.

Anyway - I miss DF and I know he misses us... I was speaking to DB (historically the GC) and he said he has spoken to them and DM always asks if DB has heard from us and are we well etc, as well as mentioning that DM hasn't been well and has been diagnosed with a chronic condition since we have been LC so I thought I would Facetime them - messaged first to check availability etc then called.

Was lovely to speak to DF - DM sat there with her arms folded and was terse and short, excusing herself from the conversation early in order to end it. With hindsight, I think it was my reaction to the chronic health condition diagnosis that made her cross - I think it was her trump card... I said I was sorry and what was the treatment / next steps, hoped she wasn't in pain etc which sounds reasonable but obviously wasn't the huge apology and self flagellation that she required for my months of non compliance.

Anyway - since then I have messaged to let them know about the kids and just got back a terse response... I am going to continue to take the moral high road and send cards etc on special occasions but I think LC is going to be the way forward.

That's it really... Nothing else to add. Just that I obviously miss DF and I still feel so desperately sad for the little Luna, who still just wants her mum and doesn't understand what she has ever done to be treated like this.

I think it is a slow grief, acknowledging that I have done my absolute best but we will never have the relationship I want and deserve and the one we have / have had is too toxic to be maintainable.

Still after all of this time and everything I have learned, I still think it is my fault to an extent and that I should be doing something more or differently but I just can't - I have my own family now and I can't expose my kids to it.

Just leaving this here really...

@Iamaperiwinkle, I think you knew that's exactly what they planned to do. That's why they held onto the rest of your stuff, so they could make you beg for it back.
Who is the person they have given POA to, it is someone you trust who could get your things on your behalf!

Ffs bloody phone, is it someone you could trust?

@Coconut80
I totally understand how you feel.

It’s a close family member but not someone I have spoken to for about 10 years plus. They given me their number ‘if I want to contact them’. I have texted and asked to talk. But this person is closely related to both of us but neither of us have much contact with them. Weird.

Meant texted third party not my parents and I’m viewing a flat tomorrow.

Lavandar

If anyone is fragile here, its you and not your mother. She has made you this way.

She will continue to play the mental health card to your detriment if you at all give an inch. If you give an inch, she will take a mile and she played you here post her divorce as well to draw you further in. Setting boundaries with her will be impossible mainly because she has never encouraged you to have any. You are to her an extension of her own self.

Block her ways of she being able to contact you and start saying no, you need to drop the rope along with all residual hope you may still have that she will somehow change and be sorry/be the mother you would like her to be. It is NOT going to happen so you need to protect yourself.

I doubt very much she had an actual mental health episode at all post divorce. You were most likely on the receiving end of her narcissistic rage. These people are personality disordered and NPD is a cluster B personality disorder.

Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded.

Periwinkle

Yet more toxic bullcrap from your parents which given their previous behaviour is not surprising nor sadly unexpected. This is more of the same from them and they indeed have and will use these remaining items as a means of power and control over you. You have to let that stuff all go and show no more interest in getting it back. You could play bingo with these toxic people, they've even now mentioned health issues!. Its all a ploy to get you to feel sorry for them and guilty.

They mentioning power of attorney in the same vein as your items was another example of bs too. I am wondering if the person they have chosen will now start further acting as a "flying monkey". Be careful if that is the case because such people have their own agenda and are not interested at all in hearing your side of things.