March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Magdoo
In relation to:

"I can completely understand my mother's behaviour and break it down as to why she behaves this way which is due to all her childhood traumas. Its just horrible to be on the receiving end of it all and to also know my mum would benefit from seeing a psychologist to deal with her past that she projects onto me... But saying that to her I would be throwing myself into lava as she doesn't trust health professionals and doesn't believe she has any mental health difficulties."

This is exactly it, she won't seek help, the same as my mum - who also doesn't believe she needs help mentally.

Part of the process I've been through is to acknowledge that although you understand the situation and terrible circumstances that she has been through, you can't change that and are not responsible for it.

My mum is deep down an angry person, and fundamentally unable to recognise her issues, or ignores them, I'm not actually sure which. But either way I can't make her happy.

The only person responsible for your happiness is yourself. You can only change your reactions to something and someone. As difficult as that can be.

@CeciledeVolanges

Thank you. That helps and definitely makes sense. It is hard to remember that it is self protective behaviour, but it really is at this point.

Your situation sounds so incredibly exhausting. Keep preserving. Try not to worry about whatever she's saying to other people, I've had the same with my mum, she posted things on social media about me in public on various occasions, (I've not had her on social media for a long time now, due to this), but I had to accept that her friends may believe some of these lies. But that's up to them.

@OliveBlue yes, I'm knackered. Trying to get back to work after protracted sickness absence, do my studies and arrange for moving out as well as dealing with this crap is really getting on top of me, actually. She's picked a fight over nothing and stormed out with a load of bags and her car today so there will at least be a few hours of peace!

Oh, for goodness' sake. She has sent a long, not very carefully written email to me and my dad stating that instead of me moving out, she is going to move out to the same place. She is now there. Unfortunately as we had started the process of moving out she is locked in a small room with my confidential papers, which include love letters written to me, my medical records etc. The prospect of her reading those is making me feel physically sick.
My dad is saying she doesn't mean what she says, she won't stick to that plan, I shouldn't worry about her going through my stuff because it doesn't matter if she does, I should move there anyway. He also repeated all the stuff about I'm never actually going to be able to leave her game, don't play along, I should still live in their house etc. She has apparently threatened my dad with legal proceedings of some kind. I said I would prefer to move out to somewhere they didn't own and didn't know about and my dad said he would prefer not that because then they wouldn't be able to help if I was in a crisis again. To be honest my parents intervening in a crisis has been the worst possible thing for years and years and if I have learned one lesson it is that.
I feel sick, and tired, and I just want to be out of here and for this to be over. And every time my dad says moving somewhere else isn't going to work I lose a bit more hope that this will ever end.

Deep down she knows her control is slipping and this is a way to try to exert it again. Plan and plan again to make it somewherr independent. Even if its as a lodger and dont give them the details.

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to people, I so rarely even get a spare few minutes these days.
@OliveBlue thank you for your reply. I wish my mother had got professional help along the way because she has no many, many issues. To be fair, she would never have had the money or time for therapy as a single mum but as a person who went through a series of violent relationships she definitely has issues that need sorting out. This is why I always felt sorry for her, she seems like this helpless woman. She would always say she is "like driftwood", tumbling from one thing to the next, but it denies any agency...like she is never culpable for anything. When people talk about self-efficacy she is the extreme end of the "zero control" spectrum...life just happens, she has no control over it. The result of that of course was that I had an unsafe, unstable and traumatic childhood but I was never able to blame her. It was only when I had my first child that I realised I would literally saw off my own arm for my daughter...I would leave my husband who I adore if there was even a hint of danger, even a hint! She allowed me to be abused by her psycho boyfriend she'd only known a few months. It makes no sense, and it is very hard to forgive.
My sister lives so far away she just judges me from a distance, thinks the sun shines out of our mother who has had a hard time and I'm the worst b**ch on earth for not caring for her during a global pandemic. Her words were "I can't imagine a worse person than you, treating family so coldly during a pandemic". Ugh.

@notmenottoday

I agree about friends, they don't understand at all. I get blank faces if I suggest I'm not "dying to hug my mother" like they all are after lockdown ends. Covid brought up a LOT of stuff...like how I didn't miss my parents one bit. It is very tough. Thank you for your reply.

@Notmenottoday thank you. Yes, if I had any wish it would be to want to spend time with my mother, like my friends do. All the while that my mother and sister think I'm this heartless cow who has grown too big for her boots and abandoned her family, nobody is thinking that I too might mourn the lack of family support. If that makes sense. I don't want to be an orphan, which in a way I am, since neither of my parents ever acted much like a parent. Sounds melodramatic...but partly true.

@CeciledeVolanges I also struggle a lot with guilt. I have gone low contact on a poor old woman living alone during Covid. Then where I live there is all this Covid media stuff of people desperate to be reunited with their mothers and families...I feel a knot of guilt in my stomach for not feeling that way at all, like I'm not normal or (like my family often say) I'm cold hearted.

Thanks again for the replies everyone. I'm reading a book called "How to do the Work" by Dr. Nicole Perera, its quite good so far. I'm hoping it will help me deal with the triggering feelings I get when either (a) a friend makes me feel bad for not being close with my mother, (b) the guilt, (c) the anger over the past that I can't change, (d) the mourning of a lost childhood. Most importantly I want to be a better mother for my children, not perfect, because nobody is perfect, but self-aware enough not to just react blindly. I also found the book by Phillipa Perry "The book you wish your parents read" very good on that.

@AttilaTheMeerkat that link to the out of the fog website is so interesting. It's scary though, because my mother and sister would frequently say to me that I have a personality disorder, and perhaps I do have some of those traits!
They say I wear my coldness with pride when in fact it's just a defence mechanism from dealing with decades of blurred boundaries and inappropriate 'parenting of the parent'. My mother was never able to deal with anything. At the first sign of stress she would break down, for example if a bill came through the post that we couldn't afford or if she couldn't find something. All my memories are of her not coping, crying, breaking down, leaning on me. We were in a car accident (as adults) and while she ran around in a circle literally screaming I was trying to get us to safety, phone the ambulance etc. I am calm under pressure, but I have learned to be.
Instead of ever seeing this as a good trait though, and one that has led me to have considerable success in my work and life, I am castigated for it. My sister, who is much more emotional, I am always told "has a warm heart", the implication being I do not.
Why are families so bloody awful sometimes?
Anyway....I've been NC now for six weeks and in part its a relief and in part I feel guilty constantly.

@CeciledeVolanges yes, your mum is going NUTS because you’re slipping out of her grasp. What a terrible situation, but you can be free of it. Good luck.

At everyone - and we all know this deep down - our fucked up family members are ill: narcs, personality disorders, personality Bs (thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat, I’m reading up about those. We suffer the guilt, shame that we’re not better children and many of them go on their merry way creating hurt and havoc.

I’m feeling good since the Hag left last Tuesday. I’m on minimal contact. I don’t deal with ANYTHING apart from sorting out care by phone to the company.

Mr Monkey went round today and dealt with the tears and reproach because she can’t come and stay at ours (I think she envisages for the rest of her life) whilst there’s a ONE HOUR repair done on her flat. It’s a nonstop guilt trip that she’s trying to exert.

He feels sad that her life has ended up this way but no guilt.
But she has let her life develop like this by being miserable and toxic. I can see so clearly now how she’d lined us up as carers as disabled BIL will increasingly be unable to cope. Thing is, we’re not such a soft touch and don’t respond to the constant shouting, cutting comments and spite.

I’ve got one two hour lunch to get through on Easter Sunday. I can do this. At my house, on my terms. (With a lot of wine)

To everyone dealing with toxicity, keep strong. Off to Google B Personalities. Not sure I’m going to like what I find but forewarned is forearmed!

Well, the dust has settled and my mother is now sleeping in the room I was supposed to be moving to in under two weeks. With all my confidential papers. And my bicycle. I know it's just stuff and my dad is very dismissive of my being upset at the prospect of her reading my private stuff or taking my bike, but it really matters to me and is quite distressing. I suppose I was stupidly naive to believe that there was even a remote chance of her allowing me to move there, and even more stupid to start having stuff taken up there. In principle, I could find somewhere to move to myself, and organise to get my stuff rounded up and moved there. I have actually tried to discuss with my dad but he just says over and over again that it didn't work last time.

That is the thing. At this point I am completely exhausted and feel beaten by it. I don't know if a stronger or better person would be in a different position, but I am struggling to hold on to my sanity. With the exception of a few months last year my life has been full to the brim with her lies, manipulation, temper tantrums, inconsistency, constantly picking fights, scapegoating, gaslighting, rages, picking fights with other family members and with me, loyalty tests and hypocrisy. I am in my late twenties and honestly had more confidence and independence when I left to go to university. I doubt my own perception and don't believe in my own competence at anything. When I think about moving out and finding my own place, I end up agreeing with my dad that it hasn't worked before and I'm incapable of doing it in the future, just like he tells me I will never escape my mother. She on the other hand will look me straight in the face and say things like "your friends will come back, they just don't know what to say" and then find that she has been straightforwardly lying about me to their mothers or through my sister. I have reacted badly and self-destructively to all of this and that's my fault, but at the same time I feel like I'm going mad here. I am so tired of being part of her games, being forced into a position where she martyrs herself to me and having to participate in her mind games. My dad always tells me not to play her game, but that seems to involve responding to her crazy emails and tolerating her tantrums. I am so desperate to work on being a better and healthier person but at the same time I'm trapped in an abusive, unhealthy environment. It's like the mental health equivalent of them saying the best way for me to stay sober is to be locked in this house with her and her secret alcohol stash (which was bloody obvious, not secret, it was sticking out of her chest of drawers for goodness' sake).
I'm so sorry to have gone on, again. I hate myself for getting into this situation, for trying to cope by abusing alcohol, and for being unable to see a way out. I am reminding myself of the dogs in the learned helplessness experiments who just lie there and keep taking the electric shocks even if they can technically jump out.
A very good friend once said to me while I was visiting that my parents' world was not the real world, and that I should escape out into the real world. Now my dad tells me the opposite every day and I am starting to believe it myself.

"A very good friend once said to me while I was visiting that my parents' world was not the real world, and that I should escape out into the real world. Now my dad tells me the opposite every day and I am starting to believe it myself"".

Your friend here is correct; its both your parents here who are the dysfunctional ones.

How can you escape these two completely?. With your mother now in this room you were going to have its now only you and your dad.

Your parents have and will simply continue to mess with your head and life if you at all allow them any say in it going forward. I think your dad wants you around solely so he can use you as some sort of buffer between his wife and you. He has certainly failed you as a parent too and has enabled his wife's excesses of behaviour. Ultimately you are going to have to move and never return to either of them.

I wonder if your mother has threatened him with divorce proceedings.

I know she has threatened him with divorce proceedings multiple times in the past. Most of my other family members were very upset when I cut contact with her because she made their lives so miserable as a result. Not wanting to speak to her will probably end up meaning I don't get to speak to the rest of my family again. A couple of days ago she also started spending days in my grandparents' house and sending me messages saying that I could talk to her when I came to visit them. She has shouted before that if I don't want to talk to her then I can forget having a relationship with my grandparents.

OK, deep breath here, I have done something incredibly stupid, or rather did yesterday in a moment of blind panic. I called the non-emergency police number and said I was scared of what might end up happening with my mother, and mentioned that she had previously been abusive and violent to me and to my dad. That was a dreadful thing to do to my parents and also just a really bad idea because the police now want to take a statement from me and from my dad (what did I expect! Idiot).

The thing is, I don't want to get my parents into trouble, I didn't think it through and I shouldn't have done it. I just want her to stop and leave me alone. My dad will contradict me and if my mum finds out what I've done she will be indescribably angry, probably rightly so. I know they have had the police called to them when they've been fighting before and she has objectively been violent to both of us before, thrown stuff, behaved in a harassing way and she is abusive! But it doesn't feel like I should have involved the police. Too late now. I have got myself into such a mess, and it is my fault. Sorry again, everyone.

Hi everyone, how is everyone doing today?
I have been on and off this thread for a few years now.
I know the patterns of my dysfunctional family and have slowly been trying to distance myself. Growing up and in most of my 20's I was enmeshed with my family. My dsis and her fiance are very enmeshed still and she heavily relies on my M for support. Which obviously my M loves.
Over the past year, I have no longer told my M personal parts of my life, lockdown gave me a great reason to be more distance from both parents. I entered my first healthy relationship last year and it is going very well. However from past experience, when I have a partner my family seem to get jealous I no longer speak to them so much, spend as much time with them etc.
I feel hints of jealously again from Dsis and M with comments like " never hear from you anymore". The thing is I always have made efforts to speak to them first, arrange a walk with them first. As soon as I stop doing this and get on with building my own life away from them, they do not like it.
How do you untangle and unenmeshed yourself completely?
Also just a quick question, not sure if this makes sense to anyone but I'm now in my 30's and whenever I've been around my family in the past its felt like I'm a child again and put into that child role. Does that make sense to anyone else?

@CeciledeVolanges

I know she has threatened him with divorce proceedings multiple times in the past. Most of my other family members were very upset when I cut contact with her because she made their lives so miserable as a result. Not wanting to speak to her will probably end up meaning I don't get to speak to the rest of my family again. A couple of days ago she also started spending days in my grandparents' house and sending me messages saying that I could talk to her when I came to visit them. She has shouted before that if I don't want to talk to her then I can forget having a relationship with my grandparents.

OK, deep breath here, I have done something incredibly stupid, or rather did yesterday in a moment of blind panic. I called the non-emergency police number and said I was scared of what might end up happening with my mother, and mentioned that she had previously been abusive and violent to me and to my dad. That was a dreadful thing to do to my parents and also just a really bad idea because the police now want to take a statement from me and from my dad (what did I expect! Idiot).

The thing is, I don't want to get my parents into trouble, I didn't think it through and I shouldn't have done it. I just want her to stop and leave me alone. My dad will contradict me and if my mum finds out what I've done she will be indescribably angry, probably rightly so. I know they have had the police called to them when they've been fighting before and she has objectively been violent to both of us before, thrown stuff, behaved in a harassing way and she is abusive! But it doesn't feel like I should have involved the police. Too late now. I have got myself into such a mess, and it is my fault. Sorry again, everyone.

It was not a stupid thing at all. I have done something similar, I called the police on my dad. I ended up hanging up the phone but they heard shouting before I came round and came round. They ended up arresting my dad. He had pushed my mum but like you aswell i knew he was capable of harming me and my mum as he had done it before.

I did not want him getting in trouble either and was in a bit of a mess. But now a few years on, I'm glad I did it. I stood up to him and showed him I wouldn't put up with it. Hopefully by you doing this, you're showing your mum that its not right and you will not put up with it anymore.

I think calling the police was a brave thing to do, not a stupid idea at all.
Would urge you to work with these people.; they are not your enemy here. People like your parents may well be afraid of what they see as authority figures and there needs to be consequences for their actions.

Hi everyone,

New here - a year ago I went NC with my older brother after finally coming to terms (not sure that’s the right phrase, maybe finding the strength), with the fact that he sexually abused me for approx 5 years as a child.

I’ve had quite a lot of therapy, unpicked a huge amount of pain, and hurt and my life does make a lot more sense in how I behave etc, but I think a certain amount of pain will always remain - maybe a longing for what should have been?

I think the thing I am finding most difficult is that my parents (divorced - recently), seem to be quite happy to continue to have him in their lives. I am pregnant and I have already laid down some fairly strong boundaries around the fact that he is not an uncle to my child, he is not to be involved in any way, they shouldn’t send photos etc but my mum still asks me things like “can I let your brother know how the scan went”, which I find really difficult. I’m close to my dad (although he is emotionally pretty unavailable), but we get on well and have a hobby in common. I’ve always struggled with my mum - we had huge huge rows when I was a teenager and I still feel a lot of pain that she didn’t help me through those years - basically told me to stop being so difficult.

Anyway, hoping that I can continue healing - it’s been difficult but I feel a huge weight has gone now. The first few weeks and months were heavy. The main driving force for the NC was when we started trying for a baby, I couldn’t bear to think of him holding it. Hopefully this thread will help me somewhat, or maybe I can help others - anyway, just wanted to say hi!

Thank you both. I suppose I will have to wait and see how it turns out, although I have had enough experiences of being let down by figures in authority and of people around me turning a blind eye at school, at the doctor's, and so on. Generally it just results in a massive backlash before things go back to exactly how they were before. I also doubt myself loads, particularly when she is not terrible for an hour or a day or says something like "your family are the people that love you, nobody else does"

I do occasionally have moments of clarity, though, and realise that it's not just one-sided. I'm sure I will cause a lot of upset and misery if I do cut contact again. I know the best thing to do would just be to somehow live a happy and sober life and deal with my mum like my dad does, and I wish things were different - I actually found it really sad cutting contact with them last time and I wish I could just have a normal relationship with them.

But I'm exhausted. All of my energy is going on dealing with the constant chaos and drama here. I really want to sort myself out and deal with the behaviour patterns I've learned and inherited from her, and I'm not kidding myself, there definitely are some. But just like it's difficult trying to stay sober in a house where someone else is secretly drinking every day, it's quite hard trying to become a healthy, functional adult in a house with a dysfunctional woman-child.

I will have to see what the police ask. Her behaviour is insane, unacceptable and manipulative, and she definitely is abusive and has got physical in the past, but it does feel rather like I've got them involved in some confected playground squabble. It doesn't help that my dad constantly tells me I'm exactly like her.

Hi @Confused1010 - I'm so sorry you've been through that, but it sounds like you've made the right decision and stayed very strong. Best wishes to you and hope to "see" you around in the future :)

Possibly various posters might usefully consider joining and therefore reading Havoca (free) and look at Anna Runkle on You Tube (free) I have not looked for ages, but there used to be sensible stuff on the NAPAC site (free) There's a lot of comfort and validation to be found in discovering our 'tribe' is large.

Sometimes, what you read could be your own words, other times, it pushes your thinking into a new direction. It is surprisingly easy to see more as a virtual onlooker.

@Confused1010

Hi everyone,

New here - a year ago I went NC with my older brother after finally coming to terms (not sure that’s the right phrase, maybe finding the strength), with the fact that he sexually abused me for approx 5 years as a child.

I’ve had quite a lot of therapy, unpicked a huge amount of pain, and hurt and my life does make a lot more sense in how I behave etc, but I think a certain amount of pain will always remain - maybe a longing for what should have been?

I think the thing I am finding most difficult is that my parents (divorced - recently), seem to be quite happy to continue to have him in their lives. I am pregnant and I have already laid down some fairly strong boundaries around the fact that he is not an uncle to my child, he is not to be involved in any way, they shouldn’t send photos etc but my mum still asks me things like “can I let your brother know how the scan went”, which I find really difficult. I’m close to my dad (although he is emotionally pretty unavailable), but we get on well and have a hobby in common. I’ve always struggled with my mum - we had huge huge rows when I was a teenager and I still feel a lot of pain that she didn’t help me through those years - basically told me to stop being so difficult.

Anyway, hoping that I can continue healing - it’s been difficult but I feel a huge weight has gone now. The first few weeks and months were heavy. The main driving force for the NC was when we started trying for a baby, I couldn’t bear to think of him holding it. Hopefully this thread will help me somewhat, or maybe I can help others - anyway, just wanted to say hi!

I'm so sorry @Confused1010 you have 100% done the correct thing. I think regarding your parents, if they knew about the abuse and did and have done nothing then I'm not sure I would trust them with your child. It could be sending a pic or telling your brother things about your baby. Who knows but only you can decide if you trust your parents?

@alwayslucky I agree, sometimes it's comforting reading these knowing I'm not alone. I find myself nodding and saying oh yes my family do this too!

@alwayslucky YES, this place confirms you are “not over-reacting” or “fabricating it” as abusive parents throw at you.

@Confused1010 you are absolutely NOT wrong to feel that way.

for heavens sake go NC with parents who believe it is no big deal to keep close contact with a known child abuser. More than most, you will want to keep your child from him. and you can see in red flags a mile high that his mother will enable him to access any child. NC will give you peace. But protecting your child is vital. Move house as soon as you can, refuse calls, get an injunction to keep any of those toxic relatives away. Social services and police would take a child away if they know the mother is allowing risk of abuse, and you do know your mother will pretend to be babysitting or taking the child out for an innocent treat. while secretly determined to let her darling son get access

@CeciledeVolanges total and absolute nightmare to grow up with that and still have it in your adulthood. Sounds like your dad is an OK guy who’s equally abused by your mum and is doing the “keeping the peace” routine. It never keeps the peace as it keeps the patterns going. I hope you DO get to speak to the police and you get a result.

Here, I’m absolutely starving and the Hag is on the phone berating Mr Monkey. He’s getting much better at “I have to go”. FFS.

@alwayslucky

for heavens sake go NC with parents who believe it is no big deal to keep close contact with a known child abuser. More than most, you will want to keep your child from him. and you can see in red flags a mile high that his mother will enable him to access any child. NC will give you peace. But protecting your child is vital. Move house as soon as you can, refuse calls, get an injunction to keep any of those toxic relatives away. Social services and police would take a child away if they know the mother is allowing risk of abuse, and you do know your mother will pretend to be babysitting or taking the child out for an innocent treat. while secretly determined to let her darling son get access

I presume you’re talking to me @alwayslucky?

I live 3 hours away from both my parents (opposite directions) and an hour and a half from my brother - so no need to move house. They are unlikely to babysit, unless at my house as I don’t visit them (unless I am passing to see friends) - there is very little chance the child would ever go and stay with my parents for various reasons (unrelated to my brother).

I don’t think my parents see him as their “darling” son, but I do think it is a huge adjustment to remove someone from not only my life, but also remove me from his life for them. They know my boundaries, they know if they overstep them then that will be that for my relationships with them, but I don’t feel that there is any risk to my child when it arrives with how things currently are.

As I said in my original post, my parents are recently divorced after a pretty horrible process on all parts, and then 2 months later I told them about the abuse, so as a family we’ve had a lot to deal with. They don’t defend him, but they haven’t gone NC with him. I don’t think I ever expected them to, however I do expect them to realise he is not a part of my life, or my families, and to act accordingly.
I wouldn’t ever put my child at risk.

@Givemethechocolate - it’s difficult, I have no reason to not trust them - yet. I’ve told them my boundaries very clearly so it’s up to them. I’m well aware that that bridge may have to be crossed in the future.

@Confused1010 were they sympathetic towards you when you told them? Because you really don't need parents in your life who will minimise or enable your brother.
Luckily you don't live too close to them for your brother just to pop over to visit your parents while your baby is there.

[quote Givemethechocolate]@Confused1010 were they sympathetic towards you when you told them? Because you really don't need parents in your life who will minimise or enable your brother.
Luckily you don't live too close to them for your brother just to pop over to visit your parents while your baby is there.[/quote]
Well, he actually told them... and then he sent me an email (and CCed them in) asking whether we could mediate (amongst other things). I of course said no, that he was not part of my life, etc etc.

I then told my parents actually what had happened as I couldn’t trust he would have told them the truth. I had confronted him about what he’d done and that was why he told them - but as always, he had to control the situation to damage limit for himself, rather than letting me tell them.

Anyway, my dad was hugely sympathetic - as was my mum but in a different way I suppose. But yes, they did understand and were sympathetic.

My brother lives further from my parents - 4 hours from my dad and 3.5 from my mum so chances of him popping in unannounced are very low, and like I said, I don’t really foresee my child staying at either parents houses (with or without me tbh) because of just how things are with their living situations.

I hope it’s not a bridge I have to cross with either of them, but equally, I’m not afraid to. I have a lovely DH and a lovely life with him now so I would protect that at all costs. 😊