March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Dollyparton3 you're so right. It seems like if your self-image and the image you project onto other people is built on lies and manipulation to convince people you can do no wrong, it's impossible to admit that you have ever done anything wrong. This makes it impossible to learn, change or apologise properly. My mother will straight-facedly defend throwing bottles at me because I was back from my job an hour later than I said I would be once (7pm rather than 6pm), for example. I also get told off for being rude if I politely ask them not to do something/stop doing something, it's exhausting! This sort of person just seems constitutionally incapable of admitting they are less than perfect.

Coconut, email does count, don't let him gaslight you into agreeing it doesn't.
The purpose of the phone call is to trigger you into doing what he wants you to, you have to thwart his strategy and ignore this otherwise you are just a puppet on a string!

Coconut – just ignore. My DH has been getting “flying monkey” emails from my hideous rhino-skinned SIL who believes me to be the devil incarnate for refusing to engage with my fucked-up family any more. She can totally do one. My decision is nobody else’s business. I have no intention of explaining myself to anyone.

Hi all, I've come across this thread recently after posting about my family in the relationships section. Some of the posts here resonate so much, it's amazing how toxic families can get. I would really appreciate some words of wisdom on my situation. I'm sorry if its a bit long and thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read.

The thing that makes my situation somewhat different to many of yours is my mothers actual (and self-perceived) vulnerability. I don't think she is a narcissist or controlling like some of you speak about your parents. She was from a poor background, a single mum and she has no money, no assets at all, no friends, no family (except me, who lives a few hours drive, and my sister, who lives on the other side of the world). So my going NC a few weeks ago has been very, very guilt-inducing because apart from me she has nobody. And this Mothers Day has been the first I haven't taken the kids to visit (partly due to Covid travel restrictions but also because I can't actually stand it)

The other issue with her being this 'vulnerable' person is she refuses to admit any agency in any of the terrible things that happened to me as a child. It is always someone else's fault, and I spent these last 40 years of my life feeling sorry for her, feeling angry at the world for wronging her, feeling like I wanted to make things better for her even when she never made choices that would ever help herself (or, by extension, me).

She had me young too, so I have never held her properly accountable: blaming instead my father who left me with a mother who couldn't look after me, who moved me far away from him and from the rest of my family, led us to be completely isolated, poor, and in very dangerous and risky situations. My mother had abusive boyfriends. I was abused. She still didn't leave them. I had to step over the passed-out bodies of drunkards on my way to school in the morning. I spent my time outside of school watching her get beaten to a pulp, then beg for him to take her back. I learned to be cold, numb, and see her as a sort of child-like figure incapable of everything.

Deep down I was always angry with her, and certainly as a teenager I gave as good as I got. But by that stage I was expected to be in another parent-like role to my younger sister who is 12 years younger than me. I had a lot of responsibility but at least by that point in our lives my mother had stopped being in violent relationships and instead became very socially anxious and isolated, throwing herself into the parenting of my sister (which I can appreciate, as a single mother, is very tough)

As I grew up I swore I would never be like my mother. I got my qualifications, became reasonably successful in my field, got married to a good man, and I have two lovely children for whom it is my goal never to have them experience the sort of emotional pressure of caring for their mother. I want to be strong, happy, secure - a "rock". I went to counselling, but I felt she didn't really 'get it' like perhaps some of you here might.

Because while I've done a lot of work on myself, my mother hasn't. She is from a generation or a mindset where it's always someone elses fault and she sees herself as just a hard-done-by woman in a cruel world. This is, of course, partly true. She used to frequently say she was sorry for my childhood and I always accepted, but only in the last few years I realised that while she apologises she never changes her actual mindset or behaviour. She apologises but it's always "but I was afraid" or "but your father had left" when the reality was she could have made better choices and she has a choice now about how she acts towards me in the present. She still, for example, expects me to act in a parent-like role.

She can be manipulative and I have caught her trying to stir trouble between my husband and me, or between myself and my sister. She never admits it though. Like for example she came to stay with us and I asked her repeatedly if she was ok on the pull-out bed or did she want to sleep upstairs, she said she was absolutely fine and preferred it ("so the baby doesn't wake me"). Then I overheard her talking to my sister saying "they've got me sleeping on the floor" in a poor-me sort of voice. Or she would say to my sister on the phone another time "I'm fine, tired, it's such hard work doing this childcare" when literally I had only popped out to the shops and would have asked her a hundred times if it was ok (she lives far away so only visits rarely, doesn't provide childcare or anything like that). Then my sister would be texting me saying I'm "using" her for "free childcare" and how could I be so selfish. The reality was that mum staying with us would mean extra cooking, cleaning and entertainment for me, not "free childcare", not by a long shot. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is she can be manipulative in playing the victim, but nobody sees it but me. If I call her out on it I look like the bad guy.

My sister hates me because she thinks I should do more to help our poor mother (she has no kids and no idea how hard it is to work full time with two toddlers). She says I should "get over" the past (although she doesn't really know much of it). Her and my mother are like peas in a pod and we argue a lot (them on one side, me on the other). It's like she's created this permanent ally against me.

Anyway, this latest bout of low-contact came after she said "oh you don't care about me". Again, of course, this isn't a bad thing to say. But it comes from a place of zero awareness of the fact that I've carried the emotional baggage of her helplessness my whole life. About how my only memories as a child was worrying about her, literally from 3 years old! She often says things like "you're a cold hearted person". So while she apologises for the past she doesn't change our respective positions.

Does any of this make sense?
I know I'm rambling. Sometimes I think maybe I am the mad one.
It's just as time goes on, and with Covid, I'm coming under increasing pressure to care for her. I got an email from a long lost relative saying I should be providing support for her. My own father says I should visit her more, even when he has only spoken to her a handful of times in 35 years. My sister hates me because she says I don't do enough. Even well-meaning friends say "oh your poor mum, she will have to come and live with you really won't she?". When I hear this stuff, honestly, my heart starts pounding and I feel physically sick. I cannot stand the thought of caring for her any more, or as I approach middle age. She isn't elderly at all, but isn't in great health. I know she wants me to say I'll look after her in time.
I can't.
I just can't.
For a while I thought I could, but I can't.
Maybe that sounds very harsh. God knows I feel a knot of guilt in my stomach about it. I mean, I will have to do something for her when the time comes that she needs help, because there is nobody else. But I'm angry for being left in that position.
Anyone out there have experiences of a parent with not only a victim mentality but who, unfortunately, was a victim, making it very hard to stand your ground? Anyone else finding themselves in a caring position for a parent who didn't parent them?

Hi @openwaterswimming your post resonated with me. My db lives overseas and I'm the only family my parents have. Won't got NC. I work with vulnerable older people and I'd be a hypocrite to do that. But I have gone LC recently (technically NC as the ball is in their court and theyre freezing me!) Parents do have each other but one day won't. I'm very frightened of if/when its just my mum. She has no friends. My dad has some social skills and off sets for her.
Yes my mum is vulnerable as she has some serious long term conditions that need medication, undiagnosed autism and has in the past had some unhappy things happen... as a child I had to 'care' for her and my db didn't. My dad worked etc. She has always had the attitude that she's very independent and doesn't need anything but her vulnerability and emotional needs are crushing... she has had plenty of opportunity to sort herself out and she hasn't. Worst victim complex I've ever seen. People don't like her. She blames me for us not having a lovely mother daughter relationship because I'm 'difficult'. She's been saying this since I was 17 and I'm now 50! She also complained about a pull out bed when she stayed once and we had a full house (db visiting from overseas) despite being asked daily and offered our bed...she then didnt speak to me for a month... so I hear you!! Ruined rest of db's stay. That was 4 years ago and he hasn't visited since. That's another story.
No practical advice as I'm new here... but recognising is a first step...

Hi @Coconut80

I'm glad MD this year went well. My teen dd remarked it had been the best ever (,it was because I got to chill with her and watch movies and eat nice lunch instead of running around after grumpy dm and dgm...and managing behaviour of ds who is disabled and can't cope with MD...not that anyone else cares about that!). I'm never doing mothers day for anyone in my family other than with my dc again. The veil has fallen.
Still waiting for my dad to call and give me a mouthful ( I did send a cheap card but no present. Card wasn't even a MD card). Don't care now. Onwards and upwards. Feel a fool for wasting 13 years of my dd's life trying to please others on birthdays and Christmas and mothers day and Easter and days out so she could have a nice family time and that's not what it was. It was tense and exhausting.
I also told kids that all of the presents they've bought over the years have been chosen by me (with their dgp's money which I often subsidised because they're tight..I'm a total mug). Kids were shocked. I worried I'd been too harsh. Then they said 'but that means they didn't put any effort in it for us'. And I explained that some people struggle with this kind of thing.
All of the time I've been enabling my children to worship my parents when it is I who have been putting in the miles...I am a total idiot!

Welcome @openwaterswimming - my sister hates me too! (And is also just like my mother.)

Thank you @curtainsforyou2 yes it's hard when you know they might have undiagnosed stuff going on or bad experiences themselves. I've spent my life suggesting she joins clubs or meets people, taking her on holiday, trying to get her to be social or to enjoy life. I've always felt so guilty about her sadness. It's really only recently - I think since having kids and feeling like my caring capacity is all used up - that I've started feeling anger about the whole situation. I'm also "difficult" ;-)

@Sicario thanks. Yes they are so incredibly close. I had to gear up for the gushing mothers day social media posts yesterday about what a wonderful mother "and my best friend" she is, and how she loves her to the moon and back etc. Sounds cute, I know, but also - ugh

@openwaterswimming I've recently realised that calling me difficult is basically because I've never just accepted her bllsht and challenged her every step of the way (despite also carrying and enabling them). What I now realise is that this was me reacting to my unmet needs as they've spectacularly failed to 'be the parents'. I'm super independent and have never needed anything from them other yhan kindness and emotional support and they've barely ever given me money.

Your sister is the classical prodigal daughter. I think in narc theory called Golden child. She has to be nice to her because she'd never hear from her. You're always there so can be dumped on. I'm no expert in this area of psychology as all new still... but its long been a thing that one child goes off and does what they want and the other is left carrying the can. Usually the daughter. We're conditioned from an early age. I had the chance to live overseas and I didn't take it. I don't regret it but my parents were a factor (guilt) but it was my choice ultimately.

@openwaterswimming you poor thing. That’s one grim childhood. Your mum might have had an awful childhood but she repeated the patterns with you. There is the need for self-awareness, you’ve got it, and it sounds like your sister and mum don’t. It also sounds like you’re the scapegoat and your sister is golden child. Your mum may not be a narc but she could be and all that chaos sounds like a personality disorder of some kind. And she’s mega manipulative.

I think you’re right to reduce your contact with her. Don’t take a care role with her. There are agencies through local authorities who can deal with her. You don’t want to be parenting her again like you did as a child.
Back away. Talk about it here and erect a wall of steel around yourself.

Mr Monkey finds it very hard with his mum aka The Hag as he’s expected to care for her but she gave him an absolutely brutal childhood.

I’m just back from my work trip to Wales. The Hag was vile this morning but has behaved. The reason being the woman who stole her son and future servant away - me - has been out all day. I am now back.

Two objectionable things have been said already:

“I suppose I’ll have to pack my clothes if I’m going back tomorrow”
The clothes now include her summer handbag (WTAF)
Me: “yes”
Hag looks at floor in a sulk.

“Those trousers you got me are too long” she has ONE pair of trousers and refuses to go shopping for some more. I got the new ones in Tesco.
“Yes, I’ve not had time to take them up” (she would moan, I’ve been so fucking busy with sorting out her exit and working. And, frankly, I can’t be arsed)
“I suppose I’ll have to get some tape for the hems” looks down at floor.
“Yes”

I think I’m going to have a strategic headache and go to bed as tomorrow’s move back to Hag Hovel is going to be HELL.

It's like she's created this permanent ally against me
there's no 'like' about it though, that IS what she has done
I'm coming under increasing pressure to care for her. I got an email from a long lost relative saying I should be providing support for her. My own father says I should visit her more, even when he has only spoken to her a handful of times in 35 years
let me be clear, this is a deliberate campaign, she has set her sights on you to be her 'carer' (aka dumping ground for all the shit) my advice is start putting strategies in place to evade her or she will wreck & ruin your life, it may not be conscious but something in her wants to reduce you to what she is.
(I hope your mother can find her way towards professional help but it's not your job to shore her up)

Sorry but this is going to be another slightly long one... nasty conversation with DM which has left me very shaky but not tearful and I think I stood my ground quite well. I also didn't retaliate or use her techniques which for me is a major win, because I didn't go against my own values, and I think we left the room on the agreement that I would find somewhere else to live, which is a huge win. She has phoned her mother, my DGM, up straight away and closed the door so I can't hear and I'm sure it will be a load of poisonous twisted lies as it normally is. That makes me really sad because I love my DGM, but I am sure if she loves me and is a clever person (and I know she knows my mum lies all the time, we've had conversations before where it's become apparent that she's just been telling us totally different things at different times and so at least one of them must be a lie) she will see through some of it. Sorry for writing at such length but I'm sitting here shaking now and this thread is so full of sane people.
It started with my mum telling me about a job she had found for me. I pointed out that she had been telling me the most important thing for me was to keep my job and qualify (which she has been doing for several months, despite this being a job she has been very scornful about and she has previously been violent when I've come home slightly late from it.) She then started asking me repeatedly whether my employers knew about my studying (research-based degree which I don't do during work hours, I applied for it when I wasn't in contact with them, they both really don't want me to do it) and whether it was full time. I replied that it was none of her business, several times (this took a LOT of nerve but she had the cat asleep on the bed so I felt physically safe at least). She also kept telling me it wasn't a good idea to go back to studying and working because that had led to me having a nervous breakdown so I shouldn't go back to what I was doing before, then I said didn't that also extend to living with them? After some impressive twisting of words where she said it didn't count previously because we had been in a different house and that I actually hadn't lived with them for nine years because I had been away at university for some of it, and I pointed out that it wasn't a crime not to want to live with my parents and that actually my work might think better of me not worse if I were living alone supporting myself, she finally went in for the serious emotional blackmail and started saying how much I had put them all through and did I think I had had no emotional effect on any of them with what I had done over the past year (referring to the NC attempt, which wasn't successful).
I did not tell her she was bad for my mental health. I did not refer to her past episodes of physical violence, the way she treats my father and her other family members, the epic and horrible rows they had had, the constant moving about so she can keep doing houses up and so on. I did not twist her words (although she accused me of doing that) and I didn't point out that despite her telling me she was trying not to use my name she was using it every sentence, like a punishment or a weapon. Why does she think I don't want her to use it all the time, I wonder? She told me I was "giving her a kicking right now" although I said I didn't want to have the conversation and refused to go down avenues where I might say something hurtful. Of course the first thing she did was phone her mother up to put her side of the story across. Although it might have been one of her friends.
The thing which should be funny, and will be funny once I've calmed down a bit, is that she said if I wasn't going to give her all the information she demanded she wasn't going to tell me about the progress of her building work! I only ever ask to try to be nice because I know how enthusiastic she is about it, but I'd be overjoyed never to hear about it again. This also means that I can start looking for flats for myself, which will be expensive but worth it.
The only thing is, I know I caused a lot of damage by trying to go NC. My mum goes around saying things like "I told my mother if she doesn't let me take decisions about her field she can't expect my help with anything" and "if you don't want to talk to me you can cope without your grandfather and grandmother as well" and she was as good as her word last time and made their lives hell. I wish I had been brave enough to point out that whether she decides to do that to her own parents is her decision and her responsibility, but I wasn't, quite. I do feel very guilty about it, though, and scared that she is going to turn them against me more than I deserve.

Sorry for going on at such length. If I know anything about her, her reaction will be to sulk for several days, or to come back in in an hour or so, which could escalate nastily. Or maybe everything has completely changed and it will all be all right. I don't know. If it's still quiet late at night, I might give Women's Aid a ring.
Now to do some studying. I'm going to finish the bloody thing if it kills me, I've decided! And apply for as many PhDs as I can.

Oh my god, this is the third post in a row, but this horrible conversation happened about 36 hours after I bought her a fairly expensive Mother's Day gift which she liked. Also, when I said phoning my employers was legal harassment (she was complaining that my dad had said it was harassment, and it is literally harassment) she said "why don't you go down to the police station then?" and I said "I'm not like you". She also - and this was the really painful bit - said my family were the only people who really loved me and I should see that, she said it lots of times. I'm sure it's true but I don't want to be here any more. I don't want to be the kind of person who hurts and controls and manipulates and smothers the people I love.

@CeciledeVolanges this is such a disturbing amount of control - you've really, really got to get out of there.

Thanks for the reply, @BlackAlys. It actually finished in quite a hilarious way. My dad said it was important for me not to react to it by going anywhere near alcohol, to which I replied that I was near alcohol (my mum's "secret" stash). He then went into her room and she had obviously been drinking! She then got really angry and said my dad couldn't go and visit his mother, she was going to stay with her parents - who are very frail and infirm and definitely will not want that - and then rounded it off in super-mature fashion by shouting "fuck off" and stomping back to her room. She then called her sister, who is an alcoholic in recovery, so I can only imagine how that went. You have to laugh, really.

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you, and thank you for sharing your experiences. Your situation with your partners mother (I think?) sounds tough. It's amazing I spent so long in my life never thinking about the whole elder care scenario. Like how people could end up in situations of having to live with or care for family members they just don't get along with. It is so sad. I always thought I would want to care for my mother when she was old but as the time draws closer I feel nothing but absolute dread in the pit of my stomach. I'm trying to draw out whether it's just pure selfishness (which is what she would say) or whether I have valid reasons for feeling this way. Thanks again.

@Ulteregome thank you. I suspect you are right. I feel so much anger that people seem to be slowly putting this on me, especially when they've done bug*er all to help her or me ever. Nobody thinks "oh, she (me) has had a tough time, she's finally got to a place in her life where she feels happy and secure with a busy job and a young family, maybe she needs a break" No - instead they all start wanting to load more work and crap and guilt on top of me. I don't know how to navigate the practicalities because I couldn't live with myself if I left an old lady to rot alone either. I need to find some way of keeping a serious distance, especially emotionally, but if I give an inch it will be expected than I am then the "go to" person again. Throughout her life I have - even as a very young girl - wanted her to have friends her own age so she didn't rely on me to tell all her woes to. She never did, she fell out with everyone she's ever even half known. It is very sad. I have loads of friends and I couldn't imagine not having anyone to call. Thanks again.

I couldn't live with myself if I left an old lady to rot alone
She knows this, she understand the implications of it and she absolutely will use it against you to its fullest extent.
you will need to be very strategic and try to think clearly about what is going on here, of course no one should leave an old lady to rot alone but she will try to put you in a position where you have no choice but to do what she wants you to do, she will always be trying to get you cornered.
Possibly the way through this is to keep pointing her towards professional services whilst keeping very very far away yourself.
You don't owe her anything and you should not be taking a hit for her.

@openwaterswimming, sorry I didn't respond to your post initially, I've just read it all the way through and I'm sorry you're in such a difficult position. Possibly the thing to hold on to is putting your own oxygen mask first - to torture the metaphor a little, if someone is suffocating you, you need to stay away so you can get enough air. There is a reason people are guilting you and telling you that you are selfish - it's because emotional blackmail works to get people what they want. If you didn't exist, or were living in Australia or had a very sick child or something, you just wouldn't be available and your mother would not be left to rot. You don't have to earn or deserve not having to care for her or contact her (though it sounds like you have) - if you can't do it, you can't do it.
About her having no friends of her own age to tell all her woes to - maybe the telling all her woes bit is one of the reasons that she keeps falling out with them! I (very meanly) told my mother yesterday that when people don't want to talk to me I start asking myself what I'm doing wrong for that to be the case and maybe she should too. Sadly, emotional blackmail and guilt trips are much easier than taking a good hard look at yourself...

She has gone!
We are home. Just said to Mr Monkey is it too early for 🍾 She has exhausted us. MM has said we can NEVER do this again and we can’t.

To anyone wrestling with the “i should look after aged or infirm toxid parent.” don't! Crap parents get worse with age, they get more selfish and self-absorbed, they are an emotional drain and you're at close proximity remembering how horrible they were when you were younger. Organise professional help and step the f**k away. Do not feel obliged or guilty. They don't deserve it.

This is what MM has gone through. It was worse than last year. He remembered far more of his appalling childhood. It's not worth having your middle age ruined. Get them as far away as you can.

Emotional leeches.

Onwards!

Hurray @MonkeyfromManchester! I'd go ahead with the champagne if I were you...

Yey @MonkeyfromManchester !

Your home is your home again!

It's not worth having your middle age ruined. Get them as far away as you can
Hear ye all for here speaks the voice of experience!
Congrats Monkey

She's just phoned to whine about the carers but she doesn't want MM to talk to social services. But that order doesn't include me. On the phone first thing tomorrow. I bet she won't use them to make tea, food etc so she can 1) moan 2) be a martyr
Thing is I'm past caring. Hag has the option to use care service, Hag doesn't like the option, Hag wants to stay here or preferably LIVE here. The only option is a care home if she's not going to use what we've put in place. Never ever ever again and I’ve got that assurance from Mr Monkey.

Observe my miserable example if anyone is thinking of parental care. It’s misery.

Wine opened. House tidied. Removed the used tissues from our bed...

@MonkeyfromManchester you are doing so well. You deserve so much better than what you have at the moment. I try to make my mantra Andrea Leadsom's - "it's just words from a person" despite being vehemently opposed to what she promises.