should i stay or go 20 year marriage

[MadgeMidgerson]

i have been married to my husband for 20 years. we have not been intimate for the last ten. he is not interested, and after he stoping taking care of his hygiene neither was i.

we have moved to my country a year ago. he has struggled to find work and i am the breadwinner. he earns a decent salary now but will only contribute money for groceries. this means 3/4 of his monthly salary goes on ??????

he does minimal stuff around the house, and only when asked.

pros: he is not a terrible person, does not abuse me and the children love him and would be devastated. they are 11 and 13.

he knows i am unhappy and i have talked about my feelings but he says everything is fine and we are great together. this makes me feel like i am crazy.

if i had no children i would go, in a heartbeat but i keep thinking it is a small sacrifice for me to stay and let them continue to have him in their lives.

besides if i kicked him out i am sure if only end up financing his life, and doing everything here at home, only completely alone.

every day i think i can’t bear this any longer and then i think so many others have it worse, and i should just get on with it.

thank you for reading, any advice is helpful and very much appreciated.

@Torres10, I can't pretend to be an expert on that! but all I would say is that we often feel obliged to stay in a relationship that ran its course years ago. There's an awful lot of social pressure to "make things work" no matter what, and definitions of what works can set the bar fairly low

Another thing I would say is that when you've been in a relationship for years, and feel that something is missing, there probably is. The reason you can't put your finger on what's lacking is because YOU HAVE YET TO DISCOVER IT IN LIFE.

I think when you say "deep down I know better" you have answered your own question. Maybe the only real sin in life is not making the most of it.

Please don't feel bad for the kids. Not a day goes by when I don't wish my mum had had more freedom.

It took me a long time to understand that being selfish (in the proper sense) is actually our number one priority in life.

i earn twice his salary.

i keep thinking about how it’s such a collection of small things i lack, why does it matter so much to me and why can’t i get past it?

it isn’t so much to live without and why do i keep getting stuck? why can’t i be tougher? my therapist says i am desperate for human touch. she’s right. it’s pathetic, and if a man was posting all this we would probably tell him he is scum and has no right to expect a physical relationship in life.

i don’t expect it exactly just wish someone found me attractive, someone wanted to hold me, etc. i am not ugly! i am not terrible! oh my god, it’s pathetic really and i am so ashamed

@MadgeMidgerson

thank you everyone who is replying i really appreciate this.

i just feel like it’s not like he hits me or anything so it isn’t bad enough to walk away from. like it could be so much worse, so i should just deal with it. i can’t stand that feeling

Not hitting you is the kind of low bar I thought we left behind at least a generation ago. Im not going to give my opinion on what you do but if you think like that you may well be wracked with (in my opinion unfounded) guilt if you end the marriage. I think you need to examine and explore your mindset, expectations etc before you make any life altering decisions. Perhaps your husband cant actually believe what hes gotten away from so far and with a change in attitude from you - that is kicking ass - may well shape up a bit. If he doesn't, well you have your answer then and can feel free to ditch him. It would be lovely if he had naturally been a better husband to you but some people really will do whatever they are let do, it seems to me you have such a low bar that he has beem able to hover just above it and get away with it. Until now I hope

@MadgeMidgerson I don't think much of your therapist if she can't tell that "wanting to be touched" is just the tip of an iceberg.

I guarantee you that if you ever find the courage to leave this situation, over the next few years you'll become aware of all kinds of things that were missing from it, that have absolutely nothing to do with being touched.

I mean, my marriage isn't very touchy-feely at all, but I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything because it is truly intimate in terms of understanding and appreciating each other. Actually, sex is not that important to us.

When I was in the wrong marriage, the sex I wasn't having was all I could think about.

@theleafandnotthetree, we posted simultaneously.

"I think you need to examine and explore your mindset, expectations etc before you make any life altering decisions. Perhaps your husband cant actually believe what hes gotten away from so far and with a change in attitude from you - that is kicking ass - may well shape up a bit."

It's really not that easy. Changing your mindset can only happen when you somehow manage to change your circumstances and start getting different feedback from the world around you.

No one, unless they're on very strong medication, is going to suddenly start "kicking ass" in a relationship where the dynamics are set in stone that they don't do any such thing.

[quote Alcemeg]@theleafandnotthetree, we posted simultaneously.

"I think you need to examine and explore your mindset, expectations etc before you make any life altering decisions. Perhaps your husband cant actually believe what hes gotten away from so far and with a change in attitude from you - that is kicking ass - may well shape up a bit."

It's really not that easy. Changing your mindset can only happen when you somehow manage to change your circumstances and start getting different feedback from the world around you.

No one, unless they're on very strong medication, is going to suddenly start "kicking ass" in a relationship where the dynamics are set in stone that they don't do any such thing.[/quote]
Oh I agree completely and it would take a lot for the OP to do the necessary work on herself and then I guess on him to arrive at what may only be a marginally better life. I myself left because I knew there simply wasnt enough there to fight that battle. But given the kind of perso she is, maybe she would be more at peace with her decision if she tried? I do stand by what I said about her doing extensive work on her own mindset prior to making a move. i think if she asked him to leave with her present mindset a number of scenarios such as him taking her to the cleaners, making life very difficult for her, terrible feelings of guilt and shame etc are far more likely than the beautiful post- seperation lives described here. She needs to do lots of thinking, planning, self-examination, building of her own self esteem to put herself in the best position not just to seperate but to do so in a way she can follow through on and make her peace with

@MadgeMidgerson

i earn twice his salary.

i keep thinking about how it’s such a collection of small things i lack, why does it matter so much to me and why can’t i get past it?

it isn’t so much to live without and why do i keep getting stuck? why can’t i be tougher? my therapist says i am desperate for human touch. she’s right. it’s pathetic, and if a man was posting all this we would probably tell him he is scum and has no right to expect a physical relationship in life.

i don’t expect it exactly just wish someone found me attractive, someone wanted to hold me, etc. i am not ugly! i am not terrible! oh my god, it’s pathetic really and i am so ashamed

If a man wrote and said his wife had no physical relayionship with his wife and she didnt even have the respect for him to take care of personal hygiene I most certuanly would not be calling him scum, I would encourage him to leave.

Go - please.

Google "sunken cost fallacy" then go and create an infinitely better life for yourself. "He doesn't abuse me or the children" is too low a bar to set yourself for a relationship.

@theleafandnotthetree well done you for getting out!

I think OP is in a Catch-22 situation, in that to find the strength get out of the situation she needs to learn more about herself and how to trust her own judgement... but the only way to learn those things is to get out of the situation!

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet... as you know.

I would say that when you talk about doing this just to "arrive at what may only be a marginally better life" and all the nightmare outcomes that you describe as "far more likely than the beautiful post- separation lives described here", that's another over-simplification.

I don't think anyone's life after separation is all roses and champagne. I went through years of shit relationships, including one who (once living with me) turned out to be a smackhead, went into full-on drugt-induced psychosis and started trying to kill people

But you know what? It was all experience worth having. I found out so much more about myself, and life, that I'd never even have guessed at if I'd just stayed in that first marriage that was sucking all the life out of me for reasons I can only now identify.

And now I have the most amazing life imaginable. It took me a while to get here, but it was worth it. I'm going to sound like one of those wanky "inspirational" quotes they hang in offices, but something along the lines of: you don't get to enjoy all the views from the peak without an uphill struggle.

If you're not there yet, keep going! I really like that saying, "Everything is all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end yet."

Just be careful what you settle for.

I think you are absolutely right and good for you, but I'd wager you had at least a bit more fight in you than the OP. She sounds so defeated, to the point of entirely dismissing the idea of meeting someone else only in her 40s. Id just be a bit scared for her that if she doesn't achieve some little bit of propulsion to get her out of this marriage - anger, the excitement of another life, a real awakening about her own low expectations and/or her own value as a person - that she is vulnerable to him or someone else talking her around, to crumbling when she sees the childrens upset, to being taken for a ride post seperation etc. I think what you say about the challenges post seperation is fantastic and I identify totally with you on the satisfation of really growing as a perso and living life in your own term, warts and all. But even to have the confidence and moxy to know you'll be ok takes a certsin amount of spirit and basic self belief and I worry the OP isn't there yet. I so hope she gets there. Agree also though that you only learn by doing! Its a tricky one!

And @Almeg I am totally in tune with your way of thinking but I have a few friends leaving dreadful marriages at the moment and it pains me to see how they are torturing themselves over it, accepting every bad thing the exs are saying about them, how they still wonder should they not just have sucked things up. The kind of people who allow themselves to get into the kind of scenario the OP is in are often exactly the kind of person who will stay in that kind of scenario - self abasing, always putting others first, lacking that streak of ruthlessness (which is healthy in my view) to do something that they want but nobody else does.

Marriage is meant to be for life, through thick and thin.

Unless he is a deadbeat, career criminal, or violent; i dont think its okay to leave someone.

**Marriage is meant to be for life, through thick and thin.

Unless he is a deadbeat, career criminal, or violent; i dont think its okay to leave someone.**

this is one of the reasons why i stay.

why does it feel like i am being ground to powder then?

@BalancedIndividual -love the name and the post 🤣🤣 Did you not read the op? He IS a deadbeat. Doesn’t even wash. Doesn’t pay his way, sponges off his poor wife and they haven’t been intimate for 10 years (not that you’d want to with someone who has an aversion to hygiene). Her life is a form of torture.

Where is your home country? You would normally divorce under the roles of the country where you are resident not the country you married in.

My ExH thought he'd get 1/2 of everything. He didn't. He got nothing. And when the children were old enough they too opted out of life with him.

I got remarried at 46. Happy life with sex now.

@BalancedIndividual

Marriage is meant to be for life, through thick and thin.

Unless he is a deadbeat, career criminal, or violent; i dont think its okay to leave someone.

Well first of all he is kind of a deadbeat but what you say sounds like license for allow people to treat us almost us how they like as long as they don't beat us, they earn a living and only break the law sometimes but not through the whole of their life. I am actually aghast that anyone living in 2021 could still think that, my 80 something year old parents would lambast someone for those views. Do you think the OPs husband has fulfilled his emd of the marital contract?

@MadgeMidgerson

**Marriage is meant to be for life, through thick and thin.

Unless he is a deadbeat, career criminal, or violent; i dont think its okay to leave someone.**

this is one of the reasons why i stay.

why does it feel like i am being ground to powder then?

Please please don't pay attention to this person who is expressing an opinion which is very very fringe - and I'm being kind

@BalancedIndividual

Marriage is meant to be for life, through thick and thin.

Unless he is a deadbeat, career criminal, or violent; i dont think its okay to leave someone.

Wow! That’s an unusual view in this day and age.

What about an amateur criminal? Enough of a reason?

I was in a marriage for 20 years with a man who refused sex and intimacy and did a very very good job of convincing me it was my fault and no one would want me. He also was financially abusive and left me to pay for everything while he squirrelled his money away. When i finally left i met my DH very quickly and he couldnt keep his hands off me. I dont want to be a doom monger but ive been diagnosed with a life limiting chronic illness and cancer in the last five years and im only 48. If i hadnt have left i would still be with a man who wouldnt show me the most basic of kindness, a hand hold, a hair stroke, a cuddle, nothing. Do ypu want to wake up in 20 years and still be there??? You have NO idea what is around the corner and life is too fucking short. Oh and if he tells you hes got no money tell him hes had 3/4 of his full salary for the last how ever many years and he needs to pay for stuff from what must be a hefty savings pot. Good luck.

@Redannie118

I was in a marriage for 20 years with a man who refused sex and intimacy and did a very very good job of convincing me it was my fault and no one would want me. He also was financially abusive and left me to pay for everything while he squirrelled his money away. When i finally left i met my DH very quickly and he couldnt keep his hands off me. I dont want to be a doom monger but ive been diagnosed with a life limiting chronic illness and cancer in the last five years and im only 48. If i hadnt have left i would still be with a man who wouldnt show me the most basic of kindness, a hand hold, a hair stroke, a cuddle, nothing. Do ypu want to wake up in 20 years and still be there??? You have NO idea what is around the corner and life is too fucking short. Oh and if he tells you hes got no money tell him hes had 3/4 of his full salary for the last how ever many years and he needs to pay for stuff from what must be a hefty savings pot. Good luck.

I think this is a very good point that you make, life is precious and potentially much shorter than we would like it to be. I think I would be devestated and filled with rage (at myself as much as anything) if I spent my last years in a marriage with such a selfish man for whom I felt so little. I would much rather be on my own living truthfully than living a lie. It was one of my motivators for leaving my marriage - I couldnt bear the thought of relying on him or being cared for by him if anything bad ever happened to me. And I knew I would only do similar for him out of pure duty. Not because he was such a bad guy or anything but because we just didnt have that closeness or intimacy.

@Redannie118, bless you, I am so sorry that your health is limiting how much life you can expect, but you are right, who knows what can happen next to any of us. Wishing you every happiness.

@theleafandnotthetree, when you say "I'd wager you had at least a bit more fight in you than the OP" you've lost that bet, sorry! I'm only like that now. It took me years to gain confidence. Back then, my every other word was "Sorry" and I really believed I had no right to end the relationship and that life was just like that and I shouldn't hope for any better.

@MadgeMidgerson, do you think that being "ground to powder" is a healthy place to be, where you will flourish over time?

@Alcemeg. Good for you and I hope your experience gives the OP faith that she is stronger than she knows and can do this AND over time realise she was right to do it. It is a leap of faith isn't it?

@theleafandnotthetree, yes, it is a leap of faith. In my case I had no faith at all in a brighter future, I just felt I couldn't really go on. Like Madge feeling "ground to powder", my own feeling was that I was being forced to squeeze myself into a tighter and tighter box and had run out of space to breathe.

I saw a counsellor for a while, although this was tricky because I had no bank account of my own so it was hard to hide the cost. I kept hoping she would tell me I had to leave, but of course they're not allowed to be so prescriptive. Instead she dropped lots of hints that I was stuck in a bad place. But I'd come away thinking I must be imagining those hints, and that there was something I hadn't told her yet, that would make all the difference and she'd suddenly realise that my husband and I belonged together for life. But I raked things over and over and that "Aha!" moment never happened

Old habits die hard I guess, especially the habit of prioritising someone else's needs, especially when you have done this for so long that you no longer have the faintest idea what your own needs might be...

@BalancedIndividual

Marriage is meant to be for life, through thick and thin.

Unless he is a deadbeat, career criminal, or violent; i dont think its okay to leave someone.

In one part of my mind I'm thinking 'What? Is this for real?!' and in the other massively dominant part of my mind, I ignore all of the positive encouraging posts and see only this - NEVER LEAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. I know you will think this way, too @MadgeMidgerson I can see you have the same mindset as me. I can receive a million compliments but one negative comment and I will focus on that completely. I am really stuck. I feel like nothing will tip me over the edge to make the decision to leave. He has said some despicable things over the past week or so (mostly his opinions on stuff in the news) and just seems to want to wind me up on purpose, then looks at me as if to say 'what's wrong with you?' when he tries to give me a cheerful 'how was your day' I could feel my heart beating out of my chest the other night, I was so angry. But still I just let it blow over. You know that life should be so much better than you are drifting through now OP, so much better. But I also know how hard it is mentally and almost physically when you are feeling crushed. Please keep talking here and hopefully one day you'll find the strength xx

@Wakingup55643 I hope you also manage to escape!

I wish I could wave a wand and give you both, and anyone else who needs it, the strength to start moving towards a better life.

One thing that used to hold me back all the time was thinking, Why would I suddenly kick up a fuss about this when it's been going on for years and much worse things have happened that I just swept under the carpet?

Does this ring bells for you? I'm really interested in the psychology of how we talk ourselves out of taking any action.